Lotus Elise TDI

hello

I need help!

I'm in the very early stages of putting a 2l tdi engine into a lotus elise. It's a damn silly idea but what the hell.

I've got myself an engine and done the prelim fit up and its looking like its gonna fit (with a little subframe trimming) couldnt believe the size of the dif on these things!!!

I'd like to use this std engine to get things rolling but sadly it came without ecu etc. I've got myself elsawin but that doesnt seem to cover parts numbers (at least that I can find) so anyone have an idea on where I can find a source for part numbers for items associated with a 2004 BKD engine?

i can then try get myself an ECU and the rest of the kit ill need to get this motor running

The plan is to race the car in the elise trophy (www.lotrdc.com) next year - although i'm thinking i'll be lucky to get it out before the end of the season!

Sites a bit dull at the moment as we are still on paper! http://www.dieselise.com/


cheers,
jez.

Tell me what year and model that engine usually appears in (not usually an Elise I take it ) and I'll see what my parts catalogue says. I do need to know the original car though - probably a Golf MkV is it?

Jez! Nice idea! We've been kicking around this idea in the chat room for a little while now. Take some pics and let us all check it out.

Good luck!

ok, so got the camera out

1x engine...



here's what i presume is the engine code...



the gearbox has me a little stumped...



...not sure where code is as elsawin dosent seem to match...




and another code...



its from 2004 as quite a few stickers elsewhere with dates on various parts.
It does have a loom on it - but sadly the breaker couldnt be arsed to do the job fully... so im left with three chopped wire bundles - one im preume is to ecu.



so three questions at the moment

1) What ECU should I be looking for (part num etc)

2) I need to remove the AC compressor (no way thatll fit) any idea of a v belt that would do the job when its removed?

3) What gear box do i have

cheers!
jez.

Either 02J HDV or 02M HDV for the gearbox.

I can't access my copy of ETKA now, as I'm waiting on parts for my laptop, but I could get the engine code later, or someone else could look it up. There's likely only one or two engine codes for a 2.0 PD140.

Oh, and you might post this on http://www.elisetalk.com as well...

BKD used in Golf MK5, Jetta and Touran.
This one was manufactured in November 2004.
Transmission is HDU 6-speed which suggests this came from a Touran, or HDV which came from a Golf (the latter if that says "HDV" etched in the second to last picture).

BKD is also in audi a3 ,had some trouble with porous heads on these when i worked at an audi dealer!.
I rekon that will be a monster in a elise ,they go well in a audi a3 shell.
Good luck with this project

Sounds like a fun project. I assume you are familiar with the ECU and immobaliser issues on these - you usually need a matched ECU, instument cluster, ignition and key sensor to get past the imobiliser, I think. Other posts here go into more details.

If you ever weigh the engine in the course of your install , I would very much like to know what weight you get (engine without gearbox), and what is included in that weight.

Cheers

thanks for the input chaps.

first off a little progress... managed to get hold of the remains of a couple of elises. ones a vx220 and one a s2 elise k series - the latter being pretty much ideal as i can use it to do the fit up rather than pulling apart my proper car



i shall get the engine hanging in it tomorrow if all goes to plan - pretty much d day to see if theres room to get the driveshaft angles... fingers crossed.

back to the world of tdi. so my biggest worry, after driveshafts... is as has been highlighted above! the electrics side of this thing. i need to get round all the ecu imobaliser stuff - which in an ideal world means id like to strip it down to bare basics to maintain as much of the lotus gear as possible but of course keeping the vital engine stuff.

so in the world of normal car transplants it looks like you need to keep the engines rigional ecu, keys etc - which is out the question for me due to the scrappy with the bolt cutters

now i know of someone who can sort bmw's but anyone any clue as to feasability of re-programming this stuff out in such an ecu?

im starting to think going with a 1.9 might have been a little simpler

thoughts appreciated chaps!

ps. ill xpost to elisetalk and seloc once i get some of the big issues resolved!

The only 1.9 that would have been simpler is the 1Z 90hp. Newer engines (heck, some newer 1Zs - before someone objects, remember, we're talking about Europe) are immo-equipped.

It's the instrument cluster that needs to be reflashed to delete immo, IIRC.

Not on the euro cars, they have a seperate immoblizer computer somewhere in the dash. It's with the mk4 gen of things that it all got combined into the instrument cluster.

-Jason

True, true, but the thing is, he's already got the 2.0 engine.

And, IIRC, the ECU still requires mods on a 1Z with immo.

The ECM for this engine, mounted in an 04 Golf is 03G 906 016 ET.
Control unit (relay) for glow plugs is 03G 907 282.
I don't know how much of the rest of the relay plate, relays (e.g. fuel pump relay), power distribution box, etc. that you're going to need or figure out substitutes.

Looking at the Golf wiring diagram this can be a bit involved. Others have mentioned the immobilizer. The ECM on this communicates to the cluster via the can bus. The bus will need a gateway controller, and I think that is 1K0 907 530 E.

The ignition switch is connected to a steering column electronics control unit. There are several possibilities for this depending on vehicle options.

You'll need a go pedal for it. 1K2 721 503 M is the standard pedal,
1K2 721 503 L is aluminium.

I wonder if the stock 2006+ Elise go pedal would work better, as it's a DBW pedal meant for an Elise.

And, yes, you'd have to use another instrument cluster. I believe you can stuff it in the boot and use the stock Elise cluster, if you're good with wiring, though.

Probably needs a DBW pedal meant for this TDI and ECM.
We found that out with the formerly-owned-by-svtweb Passat V6 TDI conversion.

Ahh, true...

So the best route... a dirty hack involving a hacked off go pedal in the engine bay, with the former throttle cable working the pedal?

Plus, you still need to work the cluster. That depends on how the stock Elise cluster gets info... if it's all from the ECU, you've got a ton of fun ahead of you (nothing like emulating an ECU for the purposes of making a cluster run), and it might be easier to modify the dashboard to accept the VW cluster.

lol - "dirty hack" i love the sound of that

Just a technical term used in the computer industry...

Anyway, I'm almost wondering if modifying the Elise's dash would end up being easier, even if the stock cluster gets separate signals for everything, and is easy to work with. You still need to have the VW cluster in the car ANYWAY, after all...

Well you can have the ECU reprogrammed so it doesn't need the cluster there. I think anyway, it's possible with the VE TDIs here in the states (I think they do some kind of clone of my 99.5's ECU? Mine will run with no cluster and only sets 2 fault codes: One for an open check engine light, and another for an open glow plug light.)

-Jason

compu_85 said:

Well you can have the ECU reprogrammed so it doesn't need the cluster there. I think anyway, it's possible with the VE TDIs here in the states (I think they do some kind of clone of my 99.5's ECU? Mine will run with no cluster and only sets 2 fault codes: One for an open check engine light, and another for an open glow plug light.)

-Jason

Click to expand...

a 1999.5 will not be able to register the MPH in the ECU without the cluster. I tried running my corrado swap with a 99.5 drivetrain without the cluster but with my scan gauge setup and there were no MPH readings. I plugged the cluster back in and the MPH worked. BTW I don't believe europe got any MK4 TDI without the immobilizer.

Yes, that's right... all the Mk4s in Europe have Immoibilzer.

I'll have to try that sometime on my car... when I was dirving without the cluster, I didn't have vag-com hooked up. Hmm... I wonder if the cruse would have worked?

-Jason

happy days. the hoist is off



yes, with some proper Heath Robinson style mount manufacturing the engine is now hanging free inside the chassis.

not much in the way of room but that was expected!

the gbox mount is a couple of bits of angle iron welded up sitting on a bmw e30 rubber engine mount...



the engine side use the vw mount attached to a large slab of steel (formerly a tow hitch lowering plate!) cunningly bent and and attached atop of the standard Elise mount. As you can see this solution is missing the forward/reward rock steady bit - but i think shouldn't be to big an issue to mount onto the plate an use in similar style to whats there before - but thats for another day!



will look at the lower mount next and and the steady part of the engine mount and then i can get onto the rather messy job of getting the motor running and driveshafts

:bc


ps. yes i ran out of bolts of the correct length so e30 wheel studs are in use

Well, you at least know you're not going to have any mounting problems.

That's always a relief...

In regards to removing the imobaliser from the VW ECU, this engine should have "IMMO-3". Several re-chip people say they can remove the IMMO-1 or IMMO-2, but when I contacted one in regards to IMMO-3, they suggested:
http://www.rocketchip.com/
I asked them about it, and they say removing IMMO-3 it is one of the tuning options available. They may be worth contacting.

I haven't gone any further myself (I don't have the engine yet for my project), but if you have success, please let me know.

RocketChip is a tuner here in the US, affiliated with Digital Racing in Germany. Just another direction to send you in.

Been following this project, have to say I'm really impressed! Make sure you post some good pictures of how you handle the axles, shift linkage, ect.

A suggestion to get around any problems you might encounter with interfacing the Lotus gauges with the TDI ECU, at least as far as the tach and speedo go, is to check out Dakota Digital; they make some signal converter boxes to adapt gas tachometers to work with diesel alternator sinewave signals, and a calibration box to dial in electronic speedometers off nearly any VSS.

this is all good stuff chaps - very much appreiciate all the advice!
i'll be going round the breakers yards when back in the UK next week to try source the missing bits needed will update on how the hunt goes!

Just had to bump this one up...any progress reports?

little update for ya! things all went a little pear shaped with a house move and ehe race season got a little close and i needed to get something racing so i bolted a decent head onto the rover engine in the car to get out compeating with a view to progressing dieselise later in the summer.

last weekend however i had a bit of a smack with another car and that tied with a stag do clash for the next round means I'm now back focused on playing with the elise/tdi

here's the car (now a "race" car ) ready for strip down...



the other side is the crash damaged bit

all the bodywork off...



and here the excitement ends



i was always a bit concerned by the wieght but was expecting to have to cope with 50 odd killos extra - nothing that a suspension change couldnt handle. but yesterday i weighed the tdi and the rover k.

rover+box and manifolds = 140kg.

tdi+box and manifols = 240kg.

yep two hundred and forty!!!!!!! my elise only weighs in at 700kg before engine out so this is just far to much - id need a wheely bar!!!!!!

so, excuse the language, im ****ed.

the plan of action now... sell the 2l BKD engine and box (anyone need one???)

find out the weight of a 1.9 and 5speed box (ANYONE???)

hope its a damn site lighter without the twin final 2l box - then find me a 1.9 donor car.

then "Rui" it http://www.racingtdi.com/main.htm

so can anyone gimme a weight for a 1.9+box???

any thoughts appreicated - i REALLY want to do this conversion and two months to get it done it

Send a PM to devonutopia. He's on your side of the pond and may be able to supply you with answers.