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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old December 7th, 2017, 07:19   #3781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
According to GREET, replacing a Golf TDI with 60,000 miles on it (i.e., scrapping it) with a new eGolf would take 6,200 miles to offset the NOx emissions from manufacturing the gGolf, 1,600,000 miles to offset VOC emissions, 400,000 miles to offset the CO emissions, 39,000 miles to offset the GHG emissions, never offset the PM emissions, and never offset the SOx emissions.

This was based on the average of the emissions that WVU measured in their "real-world" driving study of the 2012 VW Jetta TDI (Thompson et al., "In-Use Emissions Testing of Light-Duty Diesel Vehicles in the United States." International Council on Clean Transportation Report, May 15, 2014).


hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old December 7th, 2017, 08:26   #3782
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Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
Ultimately, if a highly efficient vehicle is replacing an inefficient vehicle, the payback period ends up being within the service life.
Absolutely!

Highly efficient vehicles fresh off the factory floor don't add GHG emissions, especially the ones without a tailpipe. They clean the air as you drive. I see your point now. The answer has always been more cars.



https://www.statista.com/statistics/...on-since-2000/

C'mon guys, let's do our part in hitting the 100 million mark this year! We're so close...just a few more leases to go.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 08:39   #3783
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Obviously they don't clean the air as they drive, but buying an EV, then driving it instead of many ICE cars, especially if you opt for cleaner electricity, can pay off within the service life of the EV, especially if you're focusing on CO2 - note wxman's comments about 39,000 mile payoff, and that'll be on US grid mix.

As far as the other emissions... That's not location-dependent weighting, is it? AFAIK, the data is hard to find and not very high quality for that...
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:14   #3784
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So, and if we're on the same page...we need more cars. Perhaps by 2032 worldwide production will hit 200 million per year. I guess one minor issue we haven't thought of is our cities running out of out farmland & natural spaces to annex for the plants that build them, and for the next round of mega dealerships to store the rising number of new & used vehicles on. Shouldn't be a problem though, simply because lithium ion battery packs are becoming more and more advanced as the technology evolves, and more people will be more apt to lease a brand new EV. Bingo! More cars. It's what the world needs.

I love seeing dozens of rabbits, and several coyotes running around our neighborhood. So cute!
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:19   #3785
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Note that the used ICE vehicles would likely see a value crash, so they'd be recycled.

And, eventually things would reach a point where the improved efficiency of a new car isn't enough to offset things, and there is no downstream inefficient cars that get replaced.

In any case, there's also going to be... A lot of cities should just straight up ban cars altogether, not just for pollution reasons, but also livability, relegating cars to inter-city and rural usage. That's unlikely to happen quickly in the US, but in other parts of the world, it's already starting, and that will reduce the number of cars on the road.
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Last edited by bhtooefr; December 7th, 2017 at 09:22.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:30   #3786
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Population growth is the biggest issue. Everything mankind does or does not do is ultimately tied to that.

At least we know tooef is doing his part on that front.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:39   #3787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
...snip...

In any case, there's also going to be... A lot of cities should just straight up ban cars altogether, not just for pollution reasons, but also livability, relegating cars to inter-city and rural usage. That's unlikely to happen quickly in the US, but in other parts of the world, it's already starting, and that will reduce the number of cars on the road.
... walk to work -- walk to store .. walk to doctor...

... me thinks not.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:42   #3788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015vwgolfdiesel View Post
... walk to work -- walk to store .. walk to doctor...

... me thinks not.

Yeah, it is amazing that Homo Sapiens survived for 300,000 years before the automobile came along.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:44   #3789
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Population growth is the biggest issue. Everything mankind does or does not do is ultimately tied to that.
That, and the choices we make as individuals. 30 years ago, if you would have asked me if I'd ever own four cars - I would have laughed. Now, it's a reality...between my wife and I, we own four used cars. I suppose I could look at parking those cars as the industrialized version of a tree that sequesters CO2.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:54   #3790
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That, and the choices we make as individuals. 30 years ago, if you would have asked me if I'd ever own four cars - I would have laughed. Now, it's a reality...between my wife and I, we own four used cars. I suppose I could look at parking those cars as the industrialized version of a tree that sequesters CO2.

35 years ago I once had 5 cars.

Two in the garage. New Honda Accord(s). New-ish 3/4 ton Chevy window van. (top of the line)

Two 1965 Chevy beaters, and a 1966 beater. Two in the drive way (room for 4 cars) and 1 in the street
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Do the fix, pocket $8,000-ish 6, 776 miles on the clock, Pristine condition
BB = $25,625, but VW is not paying for PRIME condition nor ULTRA low miles.
Net bases in my 2015 Golf = $12,495
NADA-KBB for older CPO Golf TDi 2014 = $18,250
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Old December 7th, 2017, 10:16   #3791
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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Yeah, it is amazing that Homo Sapiens survived for 300,000 years before the automobile came along.
Closer to 2 million+ years actually. But yeah, our ancestors were amazing endurance runners. They would actually run down prey like deer until the prey collapsed from exhaustion. It's sad to see what has happened to our general fitness since industrialization.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 10:26   #3792
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Anatomically equivalent humans came around later. At least, according to the internet. 200-300k years. But yes, the early protohumans (Homo Erectus, etc.) are much, much older.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 10:27   #3793
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Closer to 2 million+ years actually. But yeah, our ancestors were amazing endurance runners. They would actually run down prey like deer until the prey collapsed from exhaustion. It's sad to see what has happened to our general fitness since industrialization.
That's when scientists think "man" first appeared in ape form, but the breeding different species into "Homo Sapiens" and using tools and fire didn't occur until much more recently (say 100,000 - 300,000 years ago). Until man used fire and tools, he was food for some other creature. We someday may reverse the trend we are currently in and cars won't mean $h*t, electric or otherwise.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 10:37   #3794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Anatomically equivalent humans came around later. At least, according to the internet. 200-300k years. But yes, the early protohumans (Homo Erectus, etc.) are much, much older.
You're right. I was thinking of humans more broadly- homo sapiens seems to be around 300k years old.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 11:29   #3795
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Well, Budweiser has reserved 40 of the new Tesla semi trucks. It'll be interesting when these electric trucks start showing up on the road.

Reuters article Tesla semi budweiser
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