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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old October 25th, 2018, 19:46   #1
Koehn
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Default Another 1.8T A4 Quattro to TDI - Lots of Questions

Hey everybody. I just got the bad news from my insurance company and they're going to write off my darling '03 ALH Golf. Sad day. But that has me looking for what comes next! I've always had a soft spot for the A4 wagon (especially with Quattro) but I can't go without my diesel fix.

Right now I'm trying to gather as much information about swapping a 2.0T TDI engine from an '04/5 Passat (that's a BHW right?) into an '03 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro wagon. Both are available locally for me which is a huge bonus.Price for the engine is ~$950 (I'll aim for less), sounds like it has everything but the transmission (so probably no clutch), and it has "around 200km on the engine". I'm assuming they mean 200 000km.

My plan is to work on the motor and aquire parts for it through the winter and enjoy the 1.8T for a bit (while crying at the gas pumps). I'd like to: BSM delete and replace timing belt, swap to the AWM 1.8T oil pan for the level sensor and block turbo oil return, keep stock turbo & injectors, clean the intake manifold if it needs it (just did that on my ALH) and maybe an EGR delete. I just want something that works, I don't need a coal-rolling powerhouse right now (though I know I'll really want that eventually).



I've read and reread through as many other threads over the past few days as I possibly could before posting, but I still have sooooo many questions.

First off, can someone clarify the platforms of these two cars. I believe the Passat engine would be from a B5.5 and the A4 would be a B6, but what differences does that actually make? I believe the mounts are direct bolt on, and it's only really the wiring that makes it difficult right? Oh and the fuel pump. I'll probaby just add a FPR and then run the loop back into the tank like I believe GoremanX ended up doing.

Second, from GoremanX's posts early on, it seems very likely that the A4's differentials are all 3.899 final drive from the factory right? What then is the smart choice for a matching transmission? I assume the gearbox for the 1.8T will be too short. I'm getting lost between all the 01A's, 01E, and now recently I saw something about an 01X. I'm not picky about 5 or 6 speed, that'd be more about price. What I'd like is a direct bolt-on for the motor and into the A4, use the stock DMF from the 2.0T to save syncros and vibes, and have tall enough gears to not run out of revs and keep things efficient. So what are my options? It sounds like Franz is the go-to on this front if I need supply

Third, QuickTD's thread ended with him recommending an AWX EDC15P ECU, AWX wiring harness, and even the AWX manifold. Most seem pretty cheap on eBay. The result sounded like a much more simplified swap. He mentioned having to find a left-hand drive harness, are they generally going to be for right-hand drive models? Also, is the manifold swap that important? Is tuning the EDC15P necessary for a stock motor or is that only for different turbo/injector combos? Is it possible to use the stock 1.8T side mount intercooler with either the stock 2.0T manifold or this AWX one?

QuickTD's thread also mentions having to relocate engine accessories to the left side using a whole bunch of parts (BPW, BRM, AMB, and ALH are all involved), but I can't find anyone else that had to do this? So what's up there?



There's probably more I'm forgetting to ask but this will get the ball rolling! If you have any advice to add that I didn't ask about, feel free to leave that too. I know need as much information as possible. Thanks a bunch for reading all that!
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Old October 26th, 2018, 11:12   #2
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Get a pre-rolled Diesel - there is an Audi wagon Diesel for sale pretty close by: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true

Long story short, if you are going to do the swap, use a V6 transmission for the better gearing, but the 1.8T car to get the necessary parts for AC and mounts.

As for wiring, get it custom done as no matter what you are going to have some head scratching going from gasoline to Diesel. The ECU's software is going to need to be customized to make it play nice with the car as well too.
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Old October 26th, 2018, 15:22   #3
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See my signature and contact me. I'm in PG.
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Old October 26th, 2018, 17:18   #4
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If you have the ability to import, it's much easier since these cars are getting older and cheaper. You can soon bring in 2004's!
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Old October 26th, 2018, 18:10   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koehn View Post
Third, QuickTD's thread ended with him recommending an AWX EDC15P ECU, AWX wiring harness, and even the AWX manifold. Most seem pretty cheap on eBay. The result sounded like a much more simplified swap. He mentioned having to find a left-hand drive harness, are they generally going to be for right-hand drive models? Also, is the manifold swap that important? Is tuning the EDC15P necessary for a stock motor or is that only for different turbo/injector combos? Is it possible to use the stock 1.8T side mount intercooler with either the stock 2.0T manifold or this AWX one?
I used the awx harness and ecu since it plays nice with the cars electronics. The ABS, airbags and HVAC modules in the B6 audi will integrate smoothly with the AWX electronics. The AWX ECU will also operate the variable speed cooling fan based on AC condenser pressure and engine temperature. The BHW ECU will not do this. The AWX manifold was used due to the fact that the AWX uses vacuum anti shudder and EGR. If you were to delete these, you could use a BHW manifold with EGR blockoffs and a "race pipe". I wanted an anti shudder valve for protection from runaway, and for $60, I got one.

The stock intercooler will work just fine for stock power. I am running an aftermarket B7 dual intercooler setup with a 2056 toureg turbo.

The stock AWX tuning will run but not real well. They need a bit more advance in the bottom end (IQ's less than 20mg/stroke) to run cleanly. Slight differences in injectors I assume? You will need to delete the immo as the European ECU's use a different immo version and cannot be matched to the north American cluster. I used the 1.8T cluster with a set of European guage faces and re-scaled the tach by modifying the EEprom dump of the 1.8T cluster.
Quote:

QuickTD's thread also mentions having to relocate engine accessories to the left side using a whole bunch of parts (BPW, BRM, AMB, and ALH are all involved), but I can't find anyone else that had to do this? So what's up there?
Not relocate, but leave them where they are. The B6 1.8T mounts all the accessories on the left and drives them from one belt. BHW mounts the AC on the right and uses a separate belt to drive it. To avoid sourcing new AC compressor, lines and mounts I just got a bracket from a B7 audi with a BPW. Cheaper and easier. The BHW compressor will probably fit, but is a pressure cycling type. The north American B6 HVAC uses an electronic variable displacement type compressor. You can change the climate control head to an earlier European TDI unit and use the pressure cycling type compressor, but you'll also need the rad support, an older AVF ECU and wire in fan control relays from a passat so you can run the engine driven and auxiliary electric fans. Again, I took the path of least resistance. The BRM alternator was the same physically as A BHW unit, I had it lying around and it was nearly new, so on it went. The ALH crank pulley was used since it was 6 groove and was heavier than the 1.8T unit, it was also just lying around.
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Old October 27th, 2018, 12:55   #6
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Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
See my signature and contact me. I'm in PG.

PG: Prince George? I spent a couple summers based around there. Tree planting. 92K trees in those two summers, by hand. The pulp plants in and around PG certainly add a certain aroma, don't they?

Have you seen this listing? http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=493592 This is very reasonably priced, already here and registered.
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Old October 27th, 2018, 23:03   #7
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Originally Posted by Hasenwerk View Post
Get a pre-rolled Diesel - there is an Audi wagon Diesel for sale pretty close by: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true
Long story short, if you are going to do the swap, use a V6 transmission for the better gearing, but the 1.8T car to get the necessary parts for AC and mounts.
As for wiring, get it custom done as no matter what you are going to have some head scratching going from gasoline to Diesel. The ECU's software is going to need to be customized to make it play nice with the car as well too.
I saw that posting! Pretty unique vehicle around these parts. Too bad the A6 is bigger than I'd like (and older). Definitely a good tip about the wiring
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Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
See my signature and contact me. I'm in PG.
Hey TDIMeister. Importing a car is definitely something I could be interested in! Just haven't quite figured out the logistics. Travelling out there to purchase sounds awesome... and very expensive. It also seems that all the importers around here are focused on the JDM or high-end Euro market. Having difficulty finding someone who can do the dirty work for me
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Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
If you have the ability to import, it's much easier since these cars are getting older and cheaper. You can soon bring in 2004's!
Like what I said above to TDIMeister, that would be really cool! Having a completely factory build definitely has it's benefits
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickTD View Post
I used the awx harness and ecu since it plays nice with the cars electronics. The ABS, airbags and HVAC modules in the B6 audi will integrate smoothly with the AWX electronics. The AWX ECU will also operate the variable speed cooling fan based on AC condenser pressure and engine temperature. The BHW ECU will not do this. The AWX manifold was used due to the fact that the AWX uses vacuum anti shudder and EGR. If you were to delete these, you could use a BHW manifold with EGR blockoffs and a "race pipe". I wanted an anti shudder valve for protection from runaway, and for $60, I got one.
The stock intercooler will work just fine for stock power. I am running an aftermarket B7 dual intercooler setup with a 2056 toureg turbo.
The stock AWX tuning will run but not real well. They need a bit more advance in the bottom end (IQ's less than 20mg/stroke) to run cleanly. Slight differences in injectors I assume? You will need to delete the immo as the European ECU's use a different immo version and cannot be matched to the north American cluster. I used the 1.8T cluster with a set of European guage faces and re-scaled the tach by modifying the EEprom dump of the 1.8T cluster.
Not relocate, but leave them where they are. The B6 1.8T mounts all the accessories on the left and drives them from one belt. BHW mounts the AC on the right and uses a separate belt to drive it. To avoid sourcing new AC compressor, lines and mounts I just got a bracket from a B7 audi with a BPW. Cheaper and easier. The BHW compressor will probably fit, but is a pressure cycling type. The north American B6 HVAC uses an electronic variable displacement type compressor. You can change the climate control head to an earlier European TDI unit and use the pressure cycling type compressor, but you'll also need the rad support, an older AVF ECU and wire in fan control relays from a passat so you can run the engine driven and auxiliary electric fans. Again, I took the path of least resistance. The BRM alternator was the same physically as A BHW unit, I had it lying around and it was nearly new, so on it went. The ALH crank pulley was used since it was 6 groove and was heavier than the 1.8T unit, it was also just lying around.
Okay that helps soooo much! I'm fairly certain you covered all of that in your thread, but for some reason it just made way more sense to me this time.
I didn't realize anti-shudder was related to runaway and that seems like a really cost effective way to get added functionality in the swap. I've got a lot to learn on the tuning side, but that's some great baseline info to work with. The fact that you can re-scale the tach just in software is super handy, I was considering sourcing a euro cluster but it's good to know that isn't as essential.
Ooohh okay that cool so its a clean way keep things in stock (on the car) locations then. So if the BHW compressor is a pressure cycling type and that requires all that additional equipment, you're saying you ditched that and just remounted the compressor from the 1.8T (which is the electronic variable displacement type) onto the BHW with the help of the B7 bracket, right? That's neat
As for the crank pully, if you swapped that for a 6-grove, does that mean all the accessory pullies also have to be swapped for 6-groove variants? or is that a stupid question?
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!!
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Originally Posted by mogly View Post
PG: Prince George? I spent a couple summers based around there. Tree planting. 92K trees in those two summers, by hand. The pulp plants in and around PG certainly add a certain aroma, don't they?
Have you seen this listing? http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=493592 This is very reasonably priced, already here and registered.
Whoa that's the first imported one I've seen in Canada! If it was a standard Golf I'd be all over it, the Mk4 wagons *never* really looked good in my mind. But thanks for sharing!

Last edited by Koehn; October 28th, 2018 at 21:42.
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Old October 30th, 2018, 16:59   #8
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I didn't realize anti-shudder was related to runaway and that seems like a really cost effective way to get added functionality in the swap.
Anti-shudder just closes off the air and kills the engine when you turn off the key. When you are tuning on the ragged edge, its a good idea to keep it in place, just in case...

Quote:
The fact that you can re-scale the tach just in software is super handy, I was considering sourcing a euro cluster but it's good to know that isn't as essential.
To rescale the tach you need a program called "vag eeprom programmer" it was available as a free download on most of the chip tuning sites a few years ago. It uses a standard KKL cable available on ebay and allows the modification of eeprom files on bosch RB4 clusters (among others). Handy tool.

Quote:
Ooohh okay that cool so its a clean way keep things in stock (on the car) locations then. So if the BHW compressor is a pressure cycling type and that requires all that additional equipment, you're saying you ditched that and just remounted the compressor from the 1.8T (which is the electronic variable displacement type) onto the BHW with the help of the B7 bracket, right? That's neat
Yes, The B7 BPW TDI bracket mounts the accessories in the same locations as the 1.8T, so all your lines fit. You will need to put a 6 groove pulley on the BHW alternator.The 1.8T alternator won't fit the bracket. The other 1.8T accessories already have 6 groove pulleys and bolt right on. The 1.8T crank pulley will fit and line up just fine, but an ALH pulley has a heavier damper, so I used it.
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Old October 30th, 2018, 20:22   #9
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Anti-shudder just closes off the air and kills the engine when you turn off the key. When you are tuning on the ragged edge, its a good idea to keep it in place, just in case...
Right that totally makes sense. So I'm assuming then that the BHW doesn't use vacuum for this function anymore (I know my ALH does) and that's what necessitated the need for the AWX manifold and respective EGR once the ECU was also changed over from the stock system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickTD View Post
To rescale the tach you need a program called "vag eeprom programmer" it was available as a free download on most of the chip tuning sites a few years ago. It uses a standard KKL cable available on ebay and allows the modification of eeprom files on bosch RB4 clusters (among others). Handy tool.
Awesome info to have. Got the cable handy, so I'll have to dig for the software. Knowing its the Bosch RB4 cluster clarified my initial search tons! Looks there should be enough explicit info out there for me to try my hand at changing addresses with at least a modicum of confidence

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickTD View Post
Yes, The B7 BPW TDI bracket mounts the accessories in the same locations as the 1.8T, so all your lines fit. You will need to put a 6 groove pulley on the BHW alternator.The 1.8T alternator won't fit the bracket. The other 1.8T accessories already have 6 groove pulleys and bolt right on. The 1.8T crank pulley will fit and line up just fine, but an ALH pulley has a heavier damper, so I used it.
Okay perfect. Totally understand your reasoning behind the choices you made now! And am likely to do the same haha


I'm trying not to get to far ahead of myself, but I've got some more questions now . I see you went the route of the TDI-geared 01A 5 speed from Franz, is the best place to contact him here? or does he have a website/store? Mad props on the custom milled flywheel by the way, that's badass

Also, for the LHD wiring harness, do you have any contact info from where you got yours? I'm assuming that a majority of the harnesses for sale online are for RHD vehicles (though it's unspecified) and that lengthening the ECU plug (if that's even all it is) would be quite the undertaking
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Old October 31st, 2018, 15:44   #10
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I'm trying not to get to far ahead of myself, but I've got some more questions now . I see you went the route of the TDI-geared 01A 5 speed from Franz, is the best place to contact him here? or does he have a website/store? Mad props on the custom milled flywheel by the way, that's badass
Frans' company is dutch auto parts. He has a website. Best to email him, address is on his website.

Quote:
Also, for the LHD wiring harness, do you have any contact info from where you got yours? I'm assuming that a majority of the harnesses for sale online are for RHD vehicles (though it's unspecified) and that lengthening the ECU plug (if that's even all it is) would be quite the undertaking
I got mine from a member here. I assume he purchased it for a project but never got to it. He just had the one. The LHD harness is actually too long. It enters the rain tray at the same location as the RHD harness then crosses over to the ECU box located on the on the RH side for RHD models. The LHD harness goes directly to the ECU box on the LH side. I don't think they are particularly rare, just none available when I was buying, just lots of RHD stuff in the UK...

Check ebay in LHD European countries. I get a lot of good deals from Lithuania, they seem to post items on a variety of ebay sites, UK, germany etc. Always fast and reliable shipping, always good parts.
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Old November 2nd, 2018, 18:07   #11
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Frans' company is dutch auto parts. He has a website. Best to email him, address is on his website.
I got mine from a member here. I assume he purchased it for a project but never got to it. He just had the one. The LHD harness is actually too long. It enters the rain tray at the same location as the RHD harness then crosses over to the ECU box located on the on the RH side for RHD models. The LHD harness goes directly to the ECU box on the LH side. I don't think they are particularly rare, just none available when I was buying, just lots of RHD stuff in the UK...
Check ebay in LHD European countries. I get a lot of good deals from Lithuania, they seem to post items on a variety of ebay sites, UK, germany etc. Always fast and reliable shipping, always good parts.
Thank you so much! I know I'll have a million more questions once I get it into it, but you've been so helpful already.
Step 1 has been completed! Yesterday I sealed the deal on this beauty:





2005 6-speed manual w/ 250000 kilometers on the clock (good thing I don't care much for the engine). The car was a trade in from a single owner from a fancy neighborhood (Capilano for my fellow Metro-Vancouverites), they seem to have taken good care of it. One or two scrapes on the outside, door dent on the passenger side.
Interior is generally gorgeous but the driver's heated seat doesn't seem to work. And this morning it seems the hatch didn't register as closed on my way to work, but I can cancel the warning and it never dings so it's not a huge worry.
Think I got a sweet deal
Now to find a motor!

Last edited by Koehn; June 1st, 2019 at 08:58. Reason: Fixed photos!
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Old April 11th, 2019, 17:17   #12
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Time to kickstart this thread again! To restate my goal, I just want to get everything working, I'm not concerned about power output. At least not yet


So the destination hasn't changed, but how I'm choosing to get there has. Instead of going with the Passat 2.0 TDI (deal fell through, haven't found another local one in months) I've decided to purchase and import a AWX/AVF 1.9TDI from Frans!

After pouring over every thread I could find, I was still unsure about how compatible the 1.8T and 1.9TDI systems are. So the main order is for the longblock, intake manifold and EGR, exhaust manifold, turbo, engine mounts, engine loom and ecu, intercooler and piping, radiator hoses, alternator, and air filter box and piping.

From there I've also added the diesel metric gauge cluster (convenience), the european starter, the downpipe, and a new OEM 240mm DMF and clutch. I forgot about the in tank lift pump, so I've just emailed Frans asking about adding that.

It was an expensive bill but I'm reeaaally hoping this will make the swap as easy as possible. It's the biggest mechanical project I've ever undertaken and while I am nervous, I'm mostly excited!



With the engine and related accessories hopefully on it's way over soon, I've got a bit of time to prepare the additional parts for the swap.

First and foremost is a timing belt, tensioner, and water pump change. Is the BHW or BEW kit interchangeable with the AWX/AVF? I can find BHW kits in North America, but it seems anything related to the PD130 has to come from over seas (understandable).

I'm also interested in retaining the oil level sensor from my 1.8T, is it easier to drill and tap the existing oil pan, or should I source another oil pan from a 1.8T and just block the turbo return line?

Anything else that I'm forgetting but should be considering?
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Old May 23rd, 2019, 08:59   #13
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Engine and some accessories have arrived from the Netherlands! It seems there was a bit of a mix up however and my shipment was missing some very important parts (ie. flywheel/clutch, ECU, etc). I just got the notification that another package is on its way, so hopefully that will be rectified quickly.

I've got a potentially noob question for you all, where is the VIN stamped into the engine block on the PD130?

I found AWX232758 (that's from memory, I'll check to make sure when I get home) punched in on top of the rear flange where the bell housing bolts on, as well as a bunch of part numbers in the various castings. But I haven't found anything that resembles a VIN. There's a sticker on the back side of the block with a barcode, but it's too dirty/old/worn to pull anything off of it. The timing belt cover has no sticker on it.

EDIT: Frans has let me know that the engine is from a 2003 A4 with approximately 264,000 kilometres on it. He couldn't give me the donor VIN, because it came from a parts vehicle? Not sure why that is, but that means I'm still figuring out what I need for my timing belt/tensioner. I'll try to pop the timing cover and see if I can find some part numbers to reference instead

Last edited by Koehn; May 23rd, 2019 at 14:22.
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Old June 1st, 2019, 00:55   #14
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This thread is missing both pictures and progress. Luckily I can provide a bit of both right now!

Like I said earlier, engine and some parts arrived from Franz in a crate. I'm not sure how I'd pictured the packaging, but it was impressive! And from actual ship date to receiving date was a wicked fast 4 days



Since then I've continued to gather some parts and tools. Most of the rest of my order from Frans has come in. I ended up having to order my timing belt kit from Darkside Developments because I couldn't find a North American equivalent with the hydraulic damper setup for the belt tensioner. I wasn't aware this setup was only for the earlier years (01-02?). Really wish I had the later setup just so the next timing belt wouldn't be a $400 job again!



As I've been getting the lay of the land with this engine and cleaning it (the pallet was sopping wet and dripping with coolant/oil/diesel when it arrived) I've noticed a few differences from what I was expecting. When QuickTD made the switch to the AWX setup in his, he noted the harness was setup for PWM fan control and and RCV type AC compressor. I'm not sure about the compressor yet, but I can tell you for sure that my engine is equipped with the viscous fan and likely isn't wired to use my existing variable electric fans from the 1.8T.

Additionally, while swapping the wiring harness from the existing RHD unit to the LHD version Frans sent me, I noticed that the connector to the solenoid on the vacuum damper (reservoir?) is different (filled in corner prevents connection) and there is a missing 3 or 4-pin connector on the main trunk near the bell housing. Not yet sure what that would be for at the moment.
Today I got to clean out the intake manifold. It wasn't too dirty, but I figured it was a good opportunity. On my ALH I bough a second one and just swapped them, but here I decided to dig deep and find whatever redneck I had in me!



Good fun, a little sketchy, but decently effective! Since I already had an order started with Darkside, I decided to add in the 51mm racepipe/EGR delete and a few metres of silicone vacuum hose to replace the old stuff.
Timing tools and parts came in today and I'm hoping to get a chance to replace that tomorrow. Apparently setting the tension properly is a real pain, so we'll see how that goes!

Part of the fun (read: struggle) of having an EU engine is finding local equivalent/same parts from engines that were sold here. I've spent countless hours on 7zap comparing fiches... it's brutal. I'm sure there tons more to learn and compare but for now at least I've found the AWX shares the pilot needle bearing with the BHW (04 Passat) and it shares glowplugs and crank pulley bolts with the BEW (04 Golf).

I'll try to take more pictures as I go!

Last edited by Koehn; June 1st, 2019 at 08:58. Reason: Fixed photos!
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Old June 1st, 2019, 09:18   #15
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Ill be watching this. Since im putting a AVF(just a AWX with 6 speed) in a 2.5 TDI Allroad, all EU market... if youll need any help, im glad to help if i can...

I didnt start my swap yet, but im forseeing some common problems already... despite being diesel to diesel, unlike petrol to diesel like you.

But i have to convert from viscous to eletric fan, need a lift pump, since the allroad doesnt have one, only a "swirl" one(since its a Quattro, 2 tanks), the AC may work different also, and a few other problems. "can-bus" probably...

Ill keep an eye on this to see how you manage, good luck.
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