Difference between Rotella T/Rotella T Synthetic?

Thermo1223

Veteran Member
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Apr 23, 2004
Location
Easton, PA
TDI
'00 Jetta 5M-'04 JW A5
I am sure it was asked before but I bought I quart of oil today just to have for my up coming long trip to Vermont. I ended up buying Shell Rotella T 15w40 because it had CI-4 Plus on it where as Rotella T 5w40 Synthetic didn't. Synthetic is priced higher of course but why would it not carry the CI-4 Plus when regular does?

Websites for reference:

Synthetic
http://www.rotella.com/products/rotella_t_synthetic.html

Regular
http://www.rotella.com/products/rotella_t.html

Edit: What the hell? Their site states the complete opposite yet there technical sheet coensides with me?

I am seriously confused
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Is 15W40 an acceptable weight in these cars?


The CI4 + rating may take time to be phased in. I sure wouldn't get hung up on that.
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
>>Is 15W40 an acceptable weight in these cars?<<

Why do you ask questions to which you know the answer (to be in the negative) ??

In this weather (I'm here in Massachusetts now, and it's FREEZING - even colder than back home in Toronto !!!!), he should have bought the 5W-40 just on principle...

All the best,

Yuri.
 

Dan_Ruddock

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so cal
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01 Jetta GLS
The packaging of the 5w40 is old it is CI-4 rated as the website says. Use the 5w40 much better than the other stuff. Dan
 

Thermo1223

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Location
Easton, PA
TDI
'00 Jetta 5M-'04 JW A5
I figured synthetic was but the way they package it would have ya think differently. Walmart is the only place I have seen yet that has it available in quarts. I got 3 more years of free oil changes to go though. I wonder what will be the oil of choice by then.
 

intensity

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Location
London, Ontario
TDI
Jetta/02/Galaxy Blue
>>Is 15W40 an acceptable weight in these cars?<<

Why do you ask questions to which you know the answer (to be in the negative) ??

In this weather (I'm here in Massachusetts now, and it's FREEZING - even colder than back home in Toronto !!!!), he should have bought the 5W-40 just on principle...

All the best,

Yuri.
Leave the dork alone, he's amusing.

and....... 15wAnything is not suitable for our cars.

0w40 or 5w40. Come on people!
 

philh

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2000
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Re: Difference between Rotella T/Rotella T Synthet

I would suggest Mobil 1 0w-40 or Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40 for your climate. The 15w-40 Rotella T is a bit heavy for the Northern climates, but the biggest problem for the TDI is that's not a synthetic oil.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Why do you ask questions to which you know the answer (to be in the negative) ??

Yuri, I do it 'cause some people just don't get it so I go straight back to the basics and review what the mfr. specifies for these cars. What's so difficult to comprehend about that? Some clearly don't know or are not aware. It's not my fault, I can read.


My follow up question would be: "Thermo, is the Shell 15W40 oil synthetic?"


I just keep going back to the basics and let the person decide for themselves if the oil can/should be used in their car. It's a method of spoon-feeding, if I may.
 

volmaniac

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Location
McFadden's Ford, Stones River NMP M'boro, TN
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02 Golf GLS
Why do you ask questions to which you know the answer (to be in the negative) ??
how else could dd get a post count of over 16,000 if he was not so inquisitive?

kinda like the old saying, "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life." (or at least something like that)
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
"...teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life."



Indeed!

Or: "Show me once and I'll never have to ask again."
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
My bentley gives a range of viscosities based on temperature. 15w40 is one of those viscosities. But not for cold temperatures.
 

Thermo1223

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Joined
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Location
Easton, PA
TDI
'00 Jetta 5M-'04 JW A5
Wow talk about a "Holier than though" attitude...


It is never polite to answer a question with sarcasm, funny how even veterans don't know this.

I never asked whether it was an acceptable weight, I asked why do you think the bottle & Shell Tech Sheet say one thing but the site says the opposite. I wouldn't want a newbie to read this because your arrogant attitude would be enough to turn anyone away from a TDI.

Some of you vets can be real a**holes about things...didn't wanna answer then fine you didn't have to post.

Edit: I should state that the above statement is directed at dieseldorf more then anyone else.
 

volmaniac

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Location
McFadden's Ford, Stones River NMP M'boro, TN
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02 Golf GLS
when i first got my tdi, i thought about running the delvac 1300 15w-40 during summer, but it only saves 0.18 cents ($0.0018) per mile

delvac 1 $25 plus filter $10 (i know these are high)/10k miles equals 0.35 cents per mile.

devalc 1300 $7 plus filter/10k equals 0.17 cents per mile

by contrast, fuel costs of $2.00 per gallon diesel/50 mpg = 4 cents per mile or 10x the cost of an oil change.

for me, running synthetic was a nobrainer.
 

Thermo1223

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Location
Easton, PA
TDI
'00 Jetta 5M-'04 JW A5
That I understand but it wasn't the question I posted. I do agree though I don't know why I just didn't pick of Synthetic and be done with it. The CI-4 Plus got me confused. I am actually going to return it, I don't do my own oil changes because 4 years worth came with the car. When it is up I will though, and oil would depend on whats hot at the time.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
The CI-4 Plus got me confused. I am actually going to return it..
Ahhh, yes, back to basics



(Thermo, the API had to release CI-4 + as there have been so many problems with CI-4.)
 

mazot

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Dec 27, 2003
Location
MA, USA
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, Indigo Blue
DD, what is the difference between CI-4 and CI-4plus? Many forum members believe that Delvac 1 and Mobil T&SUV are the same oils. When I look at their specs, everything look the same except their API rating. Delvac is rated CI-4 plus whereas T&SUV is rated only CI-4. Delvac also has ACEA rating of E5.

m.
 

philh

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2000
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Re: Difference between Rotella T/Rotella T Synthet

I couldn't find anything related to CI-4+ on the API website. Is it too new?

Site
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
DD, what is the difference between CI-4 and CI-4plus? Many forum members believe that Delvac 1 and Mobil T&SUV are the same oils. When I look at their specs, everything look the same except their API rating. Delvac is rated CI-4 plus whereas T&SUV is rated only CI-4. Delvac also has ACEA rating of E5.

m.
m, the E5 rating is not relevant to our cars. E5 is strictly a truck standard. B3 and B4 are relevant under ACEA standards.

Mobil labeling: It may be they have not gotten around to updating all the data sheets. Both D1 and the T&SUV product fully meet the requirements of the VEP engine...no concerns there. I know Mobil alludes to the fact the oils are not 100% identical and won't reveal what those subtle differences might be. I wouldn't get hung up on it. If it really does bother someone, spend the extra $$ and purchase the D1.

Here's what I've heard about CI4 vs. CI4 plus:

EGR (cooled) was introduced on heavy trucks back in 2002. The soot loading and build up of acidic gases has been taking its toll and the CI4 oil hasn't been getting the job done. As we all know, protection of the upper-most ring is critical and the fleet operators are reporting problems. The new oil, CI4+, is supposed to offer longer drain intervals, improved soot handling and better overall protection. Viscosity control (excessive thickening, filter clogging) has been another complaint, the oil is breaking down too early and the promised extended drain intervals are not materializing. The industry is not happy about this and driving their maintenance costs up. The CI4+ is supposed to have superior shear stability...that will be one major selling point.

The overall "life cycle" of the CI4 oils (introduced about 2 years) ago has been too short for the trucking industry and that's a group VERY focused on containing costs....for obvious reasons.

People are saying the CI4+ oil is what the CI4 oils should have been when introduced a few years ago. API is now in catch-up mode with the release of this modified standard. This is a nice working example of why the "latest and greatest" isn't always.


IMO, these issues are not terribly relevant to our modest TDi engines. Look at any recent oil analysis and you'll see how low the soot is and the viscosity not far from new oil. The TDi is a very "clean" engine compared to these trucks.


HTH
 

volmaniac

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
McFadden's Ford, Stones River NMP M'boro, TN
TDI
02 Golf GLS
thermo, in my owners manual for my 2002 golf, the 1st papragraph reads use 5w-40, if not available use 5W-30.

the next paragraph (skipping gas and reading diesel engines)reads that the oil must meet vw 505.00, acea b3/b4, api ch4 or cg4 (api ci4 has since superceeded these specs and is also acceptable according to the api.org website).

the last paragraph reads if 5w-40 or 5w-30 are not available, use an appropriate viscosity suitable to the climate and seasonal conditions.

i would guess your 2000 manual is similar except for the api ratings maybe. so if it is ch4 and 5w-40 it meets the owners manual spec, but ci-4 and 15w-40 does not really meet the spec, expecially for winter/early spring in pa/new england imho.
 

philh

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2000
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Re: Difference between Rotella T/Rotella T Synthet

Found some info on CI-4 Plus:

Recently established by the American Petroleum Institute (API) to enhance the performance standards of the current API CI-4 category, the new classification requires qualifying oils to include more stringent soot handling capability and upgraded shear stability control.

Scheduled for licensing on September 1, the API CI-4 Plus classification will validate the ability of motor oils to better perform with EGR engines that entered the marketplace in 2002.
Source of above

How is CI-4 PLUS different from CI-4? Here are the highlights:
<ul type="square">[*]The CI-4 PLUS designation is located at the bottom of the donut, which is not where most fleets will expect to find it. “The top of the donut typically refers to the oil's performance category; the middle relates to its SAE viscosity grade, [and] the bottom is usually reserved for the passenger car market to denote energy conservation properties,” says Shell's Dan Arcy. “But it was too complex to try and fit CI-4 PLUS in the top part of the donut; we ran out of space. Having it in the bottom will make it easier to see.”
[*]Test data used to set the CI-4 PLUS standard comes from a single OEM — Mack Trucks and its T-11 engine test — rather than a program developed and sponsored by the industry as a whole.
[*]The key additional benchmarks for CI-4 PLUS are a thickening test, i.e., how much soot the oil can handle before turning into sludge; and a shear-stability test that now runs for 90 cycles, rather than the 30 cycles required by CI-4 standard
[/list]
Another more lengthy Article about CI-4 Plus (source of the highlights).

I wonder if oils like Mobil Delvac 1 will meet the Plus designation only with additional testing?
 
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