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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old December 1st, 2018, 00:44   #16
biodieselboy
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Į\_(ツ)_/Į I certainly hope you are right. That would be great piece of mind. Either way, it can be difficult to tell just how much biodiesel exists at any particular fuel station, let alone what kind of biodiesel it is (soy is supposed to have the best lubricity). Here in San Diego, bio is becoming scarce(it's all over the place up north near San Fran), and I'm not entirely sure how much stations are adding into their mix of ULSD. Given that, I thought it logically sound to take it a step further and continuously ensure I'm running the absolute best fuel + lubricity possible, for engine health and environmental reasons - sure. But really, it's just an attempt to remain as consistent as possible, in order to help prevent potential failure. Yes, It's easy to get obsessive over it, but hey, don't we love our cars?

Personally, I like HPR a lot, and if anybody should chose to run it for any reason, keeping the EGR, intake, fuel filters clean for a much longer period of time is a compelling reason, I think.

Thank you for the warm welcome to TDIclub, I forgot to mention that previously.

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Old December 1st, 2018, 03:12   #17
MAXRPM
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I use both on my 4 TDI cars, my mk4 Jetta, CR 15 passat use D2, and my mk4 golf and 335D HPR, I can tell you that passat has used D2 and already got 100K and no issues so far, no additives added either, my other 3 cars I use additives diesel kleen and ashless 2 stroke oil,

my analogy is D2 is great and so far HPR too, I try to stay away from no names gas stations when it comes to fill up D2, and look for busy stations so I can get a fresh batch of D2
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Old December 1st, 2018, 03:12   #18
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I use both on my 4 TDI cars, my mk4 Jetta, CR 15 passat use D2, and my mk4 golf and 335D HPR, I can tell you that passat has used D2 and already got 100K and no issues so far, no additives added either, my other 3 cars I use additives diesel kleen and ashless 2 stroke oil,

my analogy is D2 is great and so far HPR too, I try to stay away from no names gas stations when it comes to fill up D2, and look for busy stations so I can get a fresh batch of D2
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Old December 1st, 2018, 04:11   #19
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I'm glad to read that you have gone that many miles with your Passat, and that it has been worry free. Makes me feel a bit better about my '14 golf!

Keep in mind, I never said these CP4 pumps suffer a 100% failure rate if the recommended lubricity isn't reached(I believe Bosch calculated that running these pumps consistently on a fuel with a wear rating of 520, the lifespan is nearly cut in half. Of course, due to how much fuel quality seems to vary from station to station, this wouldn't really be the case outside of a lab). I am, however, merely suggesting it might be best to keep everything well within the original specifications drafted up by Bosch engineers, if you are at all worried about it. All I have to show for this effort thus far is absolutely no metal shavings anywhere in the fuel systems of any of the diesels I've ever owned, so that's enough to make me happy. BTW, Diesel Kleen is great.
Check this out:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1784831

In-depth analysis of all the different additives and their HFRR values

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Old December 1st, 2018, 08:36   #20
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The "Spicer" report you refer to has been discussed here already for years. Bio was the winner there and if you see 2% resulted in a 415 micron improvement, better than any of the others. That is why I said if you find a fuel with bio in it at even very small percentages, you will probably not have to worry. My local station sells fuel that is "up to" 20% bio. I don't worry about lubricity. When not using my local station I try and find one that just has any bio content. Not hard to do. Some states don't even mandate anything under 5% be posted at all. So you may be getting some bio percentage and not even know it. Good luck with you car but the issue you were so concerned about, isn't in reality.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 08:44   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
Right. There are those who never use an additive and go hundreds of thousands of miles and never have an issue. Probably more than those who do use an additive. You just never hear them post. Your post makes it sound like the sky is falling, it isn't. ULSD isn't garbage and it is mostly the only thing available, anywhere. A little bio in it also does wonders for lubricity and a lot of ULSD is already sold with it today. No sky is falling posts needed. It sounds way, way overboard. You are new here so read up a little. Enjoy tdiclub!
I agree.

My 2000 Jetta (son owns it now), is at 371k miles. I probably never added more than 20 ounces of anything to its fuel. The IP and Injectors are original. It still gets over 50 mpg tank after tank! I believe the body will be gone before the fueling system fails at 500k miles!

Some fuel additives are no more than snake oil.

I agree 100% that bio-diesel is an extremely good lubricant. However, it is not available everywhere and I have no plans to drive out of my way for it.

I've only used bio one time that I am aware of. I used it in the ALH engine in my Vanagon one time (100% bio as I recall). I stopped at an exit and was very low on fuel. The station I pulled into had bio. So, why not! I filled the tank. About two months later the rubber grommets for the vents on the fuel tank were leaking..

EDIT: Quite different than MAXRPM, I've never preferred one brand over another and generally purchase where it's the cheapest.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 09:20   #22
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Bio diesel is a non entity east of the farm belt. I drive north to south FL every yr as well to Ohio and south to Alabama. Never see bio diesel on Rt95 and 77.

I just buy a gallon of PS for 18.00 and add 6 ozs with each fill up. Cheap insurance . Worked on my TDIs for 10yrs.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 12:32   #23
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I always love hearing stories about how far these cars will go. I too, have an ALH engine in a golf, and it’s a fantastic little motor. The Bosch rotary pump is a much more robust design when compared to the cp4, or maybe we could say that it’s much less susceptible to fuel lubricity differences. At one point, I seem to recall fueling stations in Southern California specifically stating how much bio is mixed within their fuels. This appears to have gone away, hence my confusion/concern.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 13:01   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biodieselboy View Post
I always love hearing stories about how far these cars will go. I too, have an ALH engine in a golf, and itís a fantastic little motor. The Bosch rotary pump is a much more robust design when compared to the cp4, or maybe we could say that itís much less susceptible to fuel lubricity differences. At one point, I seem to recall fueling stations in Southern California specifically stating how much bio is mixed within their fuels. This appears to have gone away, hence my confusion/concern.
B20 is readily available at many truck stops in CA. I never use it and find straight D2 at other stations for a higher price.

Ironically youíre recommending Biodiesel to be used in modern HPCR diesels yet B20 is not compatible with many if not most light duty engines. I once looked at an Ď03 ALH that was on its 4th injector pump at 100k miles due to bad or contaminated Biodiesel. Anybody who intentionally uses Biodiesel is taking a big risk IMO. Itís not worth it.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 13:30   #25
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Bio in small concentrations is what I’m speaking of - the reason why a mixture of B20 is bad has to do with injector wear from very high fuel temperatures at the nozzle. As Lightflyer1 pointed out, many stations are already adding in bio with their fuel. I was in error to assume this wasn't the case. The numbers and calculations Bosch came out with concerning ULSD fuel are only relevant to that fuel only. The numbers go right out the window when fuel distributors start mixing in bio for lubricity.

So here's my point, and then I'll shut up. I do not believe Propel mixes any bio with their HPR brand of fuel. Therefore, we can only assume that at any given time, their fuel has a documented wear rating of near 500. This might be better or worse than other available fuel in the area. If the OP plans on using HPR, it might be best just to mix in something else along with it just to be safe.

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Old December 1st, 2018, 15:25   #26
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I use Propel Renewable diesel in both my '03 Golf and my '14 Golf. No issues whatsoever. It's a fantastic fuel - probably the best diesel fuel produced. However, keep in mind, lubricity is still a concern. Renewable diesel has slightly better lubricity than standard garbage ULSD fuel(IMHO, you should avoid ULSD fuel whenever possible), which means you should ALWAYS be using additives that enhance said lubricity at every fill-up. Especially for the new common-rail diesels that depend on the rather fragile CP4 fuel pump.

It's best to find a biodiesel supplier and mix in a quart or two of B20(B20 acts as the absolute best lubricity additive) with a full tank of renewable. On top of that, you could also add in a splash of Diesel Kleen, or Shaffer's Diesel Treat. This may sound a bit overboard, but believe me, it's needed if you want these mechanical parts to last.
Not to mention you are using Propel which claims to only meet the max of 500 scar rating similar to ULSD max scar rating (ASTM D975 - 520). Yet complain about regular diesel which is additized to below that which Propel is in most instances. Usually in the 200 to 300 range. Finding B100 anywhere now days if tough. B20 or less at the pump is widely available if wanted. Dump in an additive if you need one to make you feel better.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 15:35   #27
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I was making the erroneous assumption that ULSD fueling stations were no longer adding bio. After further research, I will gladly concede that real world lubricity numbers are most likely well below 520, as bio is still mixed in. So, I retract my initial complaint about D2. I still have no wish to use it, because I like cleaner burning fuel.

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Old December 1st, 2018, 17:10   #28
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You have a late model tdi with some of the best emissions controls available today. It is already one of the cleanest running cars out there. I would say HPR really isn't helping that much and at what cost? What is the price difference between diesel and HPR? Since the advent of ULSD the fuel is much cleaner than it used to be.
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Old December 1st, 2018, 17:40   #29
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Currently, HPR here in San Diego is $3.79, which is pretty competitive in this area. I like the idea of burning renewable fuels - I do not like fossil fuel. Personal beliefs aside, HPR still is a much better filtered and controlled fuel when compared to D2(I know this to be factual, as all clear inline filters I’ve used on older diesels stay clean for much longer when using HPR). According to reports posted, it does burn cleaner in any engine, regardless of emissions equipment. So yes, these CJAA engines are very advanced, but they’ll burn even cleaner when using renewable.

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Old December 1st, 2018, 22:28   #30
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B20 is readily available at many truck stops in CA. I never use it and find straight D2 at other stations for a higher price.
Ironically youíre recommending Biodiesel to be used in modern HPCR diesels yet B20 is not compatible with many if not most light duty engines. I once looked at an Ď03 ALH that was on its 4th injector pump at 100k miles due to bad or contaminated Biodiesel. Anybody who intentionally uses Biodiesel is taking a big risk IMO. Itís not worth it.
Biodiesel is also hygroscopic and has a different viscosity than D2. This is the biggest issue IMO and creates significant risk in using it with a HPCR system as they are extremely sensitive to both water and viscosity. Besides the inconsistent QC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
You have a late model tdi with some of the best emissions controls available today. It is already one of the cleanest running cars out there. I would say HPR really isn't helping that much and at what cost? What is the price difference between diesel and HPR? Since the advent of ULSD the fuel is much cleaner than it used to be.
HPR is great for post 2008 emissions controlled diesels. Less soot means longer time between DPF regenerations and less EGR valve and intake fouling. You will also notice it takes longer for your oil to turn black after an oil change. As with all high cetane fuels, there is an unfortunate slight loss of power, felt as reduced low end torque and the resulting fuel economy loss.

I donít use HPR in my ALH but it works great in my 2.8 Duramax and CBEA.
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