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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW B5 Passat TDIs

VW B5 Passat TDIs This is a general discussion about B5 Passat(>98 (2004-2005 in North America)). Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old June 17th, 2017, 09:14   #1
50mpgtdi
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Default Project: 2004 Passat TDI-Manual Swap, BSMD, And More!

I've been a member on the forums here for quite a few years, but have been largely inactive due to having sold my 03 Jetta TDI a while back. But now I've rejoined the TDI community and I'm very excited to be back! I recently picked up a 2004 Passat TDI with 126k miles. Overall it seems to be a great base to start with. It's pretty clean with the exception of some light front damage from hitting a small deer, which will be repaired after all of the mechanical repairs and upgrades are completed. I picked it up to the tune of $800. Reason being, the transmission is giving some problems. When I got it, it would drive in reverse, but it acted like it was stuck in two gears when trying to go forwards. After reading the codes, I cleared them and now it will drive forwards. However, it shifts ok through 1st and 2nd, but it acts like it goes into neutral when it shifts to 3rd, then tries to slam into 3rd and fails. Rather than chase after the nonsense of diagnosing and repairing the auto trans, I am opting for a manual swap. I know the method I am taking about the manual swap will be frowned upon by some here, but it fits my budget and I think I will be satisfied with the end results. If not, I have the option to change things later. Rather than import components from a Euro TDI, I purchased a donor car to source my parts. It is a 2001 Passat V6 5-speed with 193k miles. This way I have most everything I need to complete the swap, and I only paid $300 for a running and driving car. I will be going with Malone Stage 2 Tuning and the Manual Swap tune. And I will be going with a single mass flywheel and heavy duty clutch for a 1.8T Passat. As for the BSM, there is no record of it or timing belt having been done, so I am doing a BSMD and timing belt kit as preventative maintenance to protect my investment. Beyond the mechanical spectrum, I will be repairing the light front end damage, and making some interior upgrades. For the interior, assuming components will work from the donor car (can anyone verify or deny that interior parts will work between B5 and B5.5 cars?) I will be removing the grey cloth interior and installing the black leather/wood grain interior from the donor car. Later down the road, I will upgrade to a nice set of wheels and possibly some mild suspension work. Overall I am very excited to get started and get this beast on the road! Thank you in advance to everyone who has posted in the past about your repairs and modifications, I and others here greatly appreciate your experience and knowledge! I will add pictures along the way as I get started!
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Old June 17th, 2017, 16:56   #2
gotsoot
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Default gasser tranny -UGH!

this will get u on the road,but u will not like the gearing that the gasser tranny has.you will be buzzing around wanting to shift ,but you will have run out of gears.good luck
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Old June 17th, 2017, 19:15   #3
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Since you have the donor car just import the transmission by itself. That shouldn't be too expensive tbh you should just do it right the first time imo. You already know the gearing is gonna blow, so why even deal with that?
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Old June 19th, 2017, 10:57   #4
50mpgtdi
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Well, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I had read in a few older threads that with the gearing of the V6 gas trans, at 70MPH, RPMs would only be around 300 RPMs higher....I don't know if that will be too big of a deal to me if that is true. Can anyone say whether or not this will be the case? And for now, I will deal with that because I am in need of a good daily driver that will be reliable, and that will fit my budget. I have other things I would like to spend some money on as well so I am trying to keep this project as cost effective as possible.

Last edited by 50mpgtdi; June 19th, 2017 at 10:59. Reason: Poor grammer
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Old June 19th, 2017, 11:09   #5
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Edited for Poor grammer? How about spelling?

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Old June 19th, 2017, 12:12   #6
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Well, I just did the swap with a DUK, it's a Euro-diesel trans and even with that I feel like I'm searching for another gear. I'm used to the experience I got with my 6-gear Jetta wagon before VW bought it back. I think it's all the other gears that will make the car seem quirky to drive... All wrong ratios through the speed range. I have read a comment from someone who did it, though, and was living with it. You might just be one of those persons. What the hell, the price is right, that's for sure!
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Old June 19th, 2017, 12:15   #7
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Oh, and 300 RPM makes a HUGE difference at speed... For me at least. If you go with a Malone tune you will really feel the problems with the gas gear ratios, I mean, you'll have all that power and no gears to make use of it, IMHO. YMMV.

Last edited by duteman2; June 19th, 2017 at 12:18.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 13:04   #8
50mpgtdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1854sailor View Post
Edited for Poor grammer? How about spelling?

Subscribed.
Haha! Spelling is also not my strong suite.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 13:10   #9
50mpgtdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duteman2 View Post
Well, I just did the swap with a DUK, it's a Euro-diesel trans and even with that I feel like I'm searching for another gear. I'm used to the experience I got with my 6-gear Jetta wagon before VW bought it back. I think it's all the other gears that will make the car seem quirky to drive... All wrong ratios through the speed range. I have read a comment from someone who did it, though, and was living with it. You might just be one of those persons. What the hell, the price is right, that's for sure!
Quote:
Originally Posted by duteman2 View Post
Oh, and 300 RPM makes a HUGE difference at speed... For me at least. If you go with a Malone tune you will really feel the problems with the gas gear ratios, I mean, you'll have all that power and no gears to make use of it, IMHO. YMMV.
That makes sense, about having the wrong ratio on all the gears and having so much torque that all the gears feel useless. I guess time will tell if I am one of those persons....but like you said, the price is absolutely right! Worst case scenario, I can't stand the gearing and I import a transmission...the most I am out is my labor as the cost of the donor car will have been more than worth it for all of the supporting parts.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 07:34   #10
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I always wondered how much difference going up a tire size (or 2) would make for the final drive ratio.
Try running a 205 65 16.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 11:03   #11
50mpgtdi
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That could possibly help offset the difference, but I'm not real fond of huge sidewalls....so unless I moved up to a larger rim diameter, that's not something I would consider. Can the ECU be tuned to still be accurate with a different tire diameter?
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Old June 20th, 2017, 20:47   #12
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In 5th gear using a DVZ (V6 gasser gearbox) vs a FHN there is a ~13MPH difference at any given RPM. The DUK is about 11-12 MPH difference. Basically, 5th gear in the DVZ is 4th gear in the FHN. 6-7 years ago I started with the DVZ just to make sure everything worked like I thought it would before ordering a gear box from Frans.

I have played with tire sizes and it helps, but not enough to match the TDI box

Do what works for you and your budget. If you want the cruise to work you will have to provide the V6 gearbox ratios to a tuner. If you switch to a TDI box, you will have to change the ratios again to maintain the cruise.
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Old June 21st, 2017, 06:02   #13
Col Sanders
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Listen to all the folks that has did this swap! 6 speed gas trans.? Don't waste you time. Get a 5 speed TDI and be done with it. At least send Frans @ Dutch Auto Parts an email. He has them in stock at great prices. You're going to screw up all your hard work for the sake of a gas trans? Oh well, just my .02.
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Old June 21st, 2017, 12:24   #14
50mpgtdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwztips View Post
In 5th gear using a DVZ (V6 gasser gearbox) vs a FHN there is a ~13MPH difference at any given RPM. The DUK is about 11-12 MPH difference. Basically, 5th gear in the DVZ is 4th gear in the FHN. 6-7 years ago I started with the DVZ just to make sure everything worked like I thought it would before ordering a gear box from Frans.

I have played with tire sizes and it helps, but not enough to match the TDI box

Do what works for you and your budget. If you want the cruise to work you will have to provide the V6 gearbox ratios to a tuner. If you switch to a TDI box, you will have to change the ratios again to maintain the cruise.
Thank you for the input. I will be certain to tell my tuner what trans I am using. Does anyone know the ratios off hand for a DVZ or know where i can get them from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col Sanders View Post
Listen to all the folks that has did this swap! 6 speed gas trans.? Don't waste you time. Get a 5 speed TDI and be done with it. At least send Frans @ Dutch Auto Parts an email. He has them in stock at great prices. You're going to screw up all your hard work for the sake of a gas trans? Oh well, just my .02.
The trans will not be a 6 speed, just a 5 speed from a V6 Passat. I don't really see it as a waste or my time and certainly not screwing up my hard work. At the very least, I see it as a potential learning experience to experience first hand how the V6 trans works with a TDI. Worst case scenario, I'm out a few extra hours of labor and eventually decide to purchase a Euro TDI trans. I sent Frans an email, so we will see, but unless its just a few hundred dollars, odds are I'll be sticking with my V6 trans for now simply because it fits my budget.
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Old June 21st, 2017, 13:17   #15
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Just use the V6 transmission since you have it and be done with it. The difference is that it will rev like it was in a lower gear when driving on the highway. You can easily get used to it.
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