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VW B5 Passat TDIs This is a general discussion about B5 Passat(>98 (2004-2005 in North America)). Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old September 15th, 2016, 17:50   #1
passatTDI2005
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Default Engine / body vibration at idle

Hello all,
Is there a thread or discussion on how to diagnose excessive vibration from engine at idle? my 04 wagon (102k mile) is still making noise chain rattling and vibrates crazy at idle. vibration is less at RPMs 1200-1300 and higher RPMs. the whole car vibrates badly. I change the trans, motor and torque mounts. I put in a Alt. pulley which free wheels in one direction. belt tensioner pulley shakes a little but so does the other car ( 05 wagon ) that is not vibrating ( it is MUCH quieter, smoother engine w/ 165k miles on it)

I borrowed a friends VCDS diag tool. At idle, 190 running temp, everything accessories off, the VCDS engine block 4 showed a torsion value of -2.9 .
I thinks its suppose to be between 0 to .5 We moved ( adjusted ) the cam shaft pulley about a 1/4 inch. then the VCDS reads 4.5 torsion value. However, nothing changed in vibration, still bad. Also engine starts like a champ, after 2 cranks, like it did before the cam timing adjustment.

So now I am looking to you collective experts to help guide me on how to diagnose the shake rattle and roll vibration problem.

Maybe I should have more beers and lower the tire pressure? lol

Thanks
Aria
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Old September 15th, 2016, 18:04   #2
peiphil
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Less beers take the chain off put geared bsm or delete kit and then set torsion value right !
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Old September 15th, 2016, 18:14   #3
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4.5 is as bad as -2.9.

Try again and adjust it to 0.0.

Also, what are your VCDS group 13 injector balance readings?
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Old September 15th, 2016, 21:37   #4
passatTDI2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
4.5 is as bad as -2.9.

Try again and adjust it to 0.0.

Also, what are your VCDS group 13 injector balance readings?
adjusted the cam timing several times till I got 0.0 torsion value.
Vibration may be a little better, but not much better. So it is still badly shaking.
( Conditions: 11 p.m. beautiful Full moon, head lamp, work lights and NO beers since Saturday !

Is it BSM Surgery time?

here is data from VCDS group 4 and 13 :
22:54:33 Group 004: Basic Functions - Injection Timing
861 /min Engine Speed (G28)
1.6 BTDC Injection Start
6.6KW Injection Duration
0.0KW Torsion Value

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine (038 997 016 T)

22:54:48 Group 013: Idle Stabilization
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 1
-0.45 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 2
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 3
0.45 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 4
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Old September 15th, 2016, 21:44   #5
passatTDI2005
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what do these Injection Quantity values mean? range is from -0.45 , 0.00, +0.45

another group 13 values showed:
0.02 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 1
-0.66 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 2
0.07 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 3
0.52 mg/str Injection Quantity Cylinder 4

are any of the injectors plugged up?
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Old September 16th, 2016, 11:45   #6
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Nope, those readings are normal - they represent the amount that each injection event needs to be adjusted to maintain proper engine operation. They're within normal ranges.

The question is do you have a proper running engine which transmits too much vibration into the car, or is the engine not running correctly?

I would suspect the former. Fun fact - the BSM is not there to address idle smoothness, its "job" is to counteract 2nd order vibrations which are most pronounced around 2000 rpm.

Do you have the ability to record and upload (say to youtoob) a video of the engine running?

Where did you obtain the engine and transmission mounts you just replaced?
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Old September 16th, 2016, 12:18   #7
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Did you properly adjust the front snubber when you did the mounts? If you have chain noise, you should either go geared or do a BSM delete.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 16:44   #8
passatTDI2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1854sailor View Post
Did you properly adjust the front snubber when you did the mounts? If you have chain noise, you should either go geared or do a BSM delete.
Honestly, I am technical but new to VWs. what is snubber? So No I did not adjust it, since I don't know what it is. Please let me know or point me to link .
I am planning on doing the chain removal and most likely go to Geared. something tells me it ( going with geared) may be better than having no BSM (delete optioin)
Thanks.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 17:02   #9
passatTDI2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
Nope, those readings are normal - they represent the amount that each injection event needs to be adjusted to maintain proper engine operation. They're within normal ranges.

The question is do you have a proper running engine which transmits too much vibration into the car, or is the engine not running correctly?

I would suspect the former. Fun fact - the BSM is not there to address idle smoothness, its "job" is to counteract 2nd order vibrations which are most pronounced around 2000 rpm.

Do you have the ability to record and upload (say to youtoob) a video of the engine running?

Where did you obtain the engine and transmission mounts you just replaced?
Engine and transmission mounts from Advanced Auto parts ( an automotive parts chain) . One Motor mount is Corteco, other is MTC USA ( made in Taiwan) , trans mounts are Anchor Industries . They are Not OEM and that is probably a mistake

I am uploading a video of engine running, title is:
My 2004 vw passat tdi engine sound 09162016

thank you for your care and insight.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 19:12   #10
passatTDI2005
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Default My 2004 vw passat tdi engine sound

To locate my YouTube video, it has come to my attention that searching for
My 2004 vw passat tdi engine will locate it faster.
Thanks in advance for any hep.
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Old September 17th, 2016, 11:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passatTDI2005 View Post
Honestly, I am technical but new to VWs. what is snubber? So No I did not adjust it, since I don't know what it is. Please let me know or point me to link .
I am planning on doing the chain removal and most likely go to Geared. something tells me it ( going with geared) may be better than having no BSM (delete optioin)
Thanks.
VW calls it the "Bump Stop". There is a round rubber mount at the front of the engine, which fits over the bracket on the crossover pipe. This rubber donut fits in the "Limit Stop". It is adjusted by loosening the bolts and letting it rest on the rubber piece under its own weight. Retorque the bolts to 30 Nm.

Are your axles genuine VW, or Chinesium replacements?
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Old September 17th, 2016, 14:32   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passatTDI2005 View Post
Honestly, I am technical but new to VWs. what is snubber? So No I did not adjust it, since I don't know what it is. Please let me know or point me to link .
I am planning on doing the chain removal and most likely go to Geared. something tells me it ( going with geared) may be better than having no BSM (delete optioin)
Thanks.

I am geared but if I had to do it again, I would do the delete. Some Passat owners with geared BSMs have reported that their hex shaft rounded out leading to no oil pressure. In most, if not all cases where this happened, the turbo was damaged.

The only downside to the delete is some minor additional vibrations, that no one with a delete has complained about, IIRC.

Good Luck!
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Old September 18th, 2016, 19:24   #13
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First, aftermarket mounts will absolutely cause this. I tried cheaper mounts once. Drove 100 miles and couldn't take the vibrations. Replaced with VW units. Those mounts are still on my shelf.

Second please answer the question about the type of axles you have.
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Old September 26th, 2016, 12:49   #14
passatTDI2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1854sailor View Post
VW calls it the "Bump Stop". There is a round rubber mount at the front of the engine, which fits over the bracket on the crossover pipe. This rubber donut fits in the "Limit Stop". It is adjusted by loosening the bolts and letting it rest on the rubber piece under its own weight. Retorque the bolts to 30 Nm.

Are your axles genuine VW, or Chinesium replacements?
Found the front white rubber donut. I thought it was called "engine torque mount". It is resting in the bracket on front crossover pipe.

The Axles : I have not changed either one. Right side (passenger side) looks very new with vw Audio tag, parts ID barcode on it, seems OEM part. The left side seems original to car at 102,000 Miles. I took some picturers of both sides not sure if needed to post them or how?

Could bad worn out CV joints cause vibration ?

Sorry for delay in answering. I was away with work and from my Passat wagon .
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Old September 26th, 2016, 12:51   #15
passatTDI2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwztips View Post
First, aftermarket mounts will absolutely cause this. I tried cheaper mounts once. Drove 100 miles and couldn't take the vibrations. Replaced with VW units. Those mounts are still on my shelf.

Second please answer the question about the type of axles you have.
hi there, Sorry for delay answering . I was away and could not get under the car to verify.

Axles going from Trans to front wheels: right side looks newer with VW Audio label on it. Leftside (driver) looks original to car with 102,000 miles.

Thanks
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