CCV Mod, Experimenting, Update 7-2-05

I did this as a photo just to post. It will be back to stock very shortly. With my EGR off (EGR turned down via Vag-Com & vaccum hose plugged with a BB), and this configuration of the CCV shown, is there any issue that I should be aware of, besides breathing in oil fumes. (I am driving around with this setup for a few days, just to see if I get any oil in the "catch can")



The CCV Intake port is plugged and the elephant hose is going to a "catch can" which is just a oil quart bottle next to the windshield washer resivoir. There are air gaps in the hose/bottle connection for ventilation/pressure release. So over time my "catch can" should start to have oil in it, right?
Also, if I did this with a more appropriate setup, would the remaining sludge in the intake manifold dry up and possibly flake off and harm the engine components?

This is only a test. I don't need pro-environment people chewing my head off. Thanks as I await comments.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Why not install a ~$30 oil separator between the CCV and intake-feed? You're almost there ...

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Why not install a ~$30 oil separator between the CCV and intake-feed? You're almost there ...

Click to expand...

Don't these reduce the amount of oil vapor in the intake, but not totally eliminate it? Isn't it true of all CCV filters, to a point?

CCV Mod, Experimenting only

So this is the "elephant hose" mod with an empty oil container to catch the oil that flows out with the fumes. You will have a real mess from the vapor that comes out of the oil container and it will deposit a wonderful patina of oil and dirt all over your engine compartment. You already know about breathing the vapors. Not fun. You really should get a more advanced scrubbing unit either hand-made or purchased for the best possible effectiviness.

CCV Mod, Experimenting only

I really don't like the fumes. If I am at a light or turn the corner, the fumes come in the cabin and it stinks. I guess if the hose was quite a bit longer and ran the length of the car to the back, there wouldn't be any stink but then I would be just dripping oil, everywhere. I will go back to stock soon and figure a solution. What is the best CCV filter out there? Why can't there be a hose and catch can with a valve that releases the pressure when it needs to? Then the question is, where do the fumes go?

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

I have been running the same system for about 15,000 miles. I am using a larger catch can. I did get some air filter material from home depot, cut it up and filled the catch can about half way. I cut the end of the hose at a very steep angle to allow a greater surface area for the discharge. I drilled a few vent holes in the catch can for venting. There is a LITTLE grime around those holes. the rest of the engine compartment is very clean. I also checked the fully functional EGR last week and it has a very light coating of soot. Nothing else. It wiped clean to metal with my finger. I did install this setup when I cleaned the entire intake from turbo to head. I think people still see buildup after cleaning the intake because they did not clean the rest of the intake tract. I got about half a quart of oil out of the intercooler and baffle between it and the turbo. The EGR is not the problem it is the CCV. If there is no oil from the CCV the most damage the EGR can do is a little soot. No oil no nasty gunk.
Kev...

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

I cleaned my intake from the turbo to head also. I put the elephant nose and in about 500 km no oil dripped what so ever from it. Now...the puck ends in a small ccv filter. Again...not much oil deposited in it. So I would say that the CCV is not the main culprit for the intake cloging. If you search arround here for CCV mods and intake cloging you will see that most of the people say that the CCV mods...some times don't even slow down the intake cloging. The conclusion that everybody reaches is that you aither remove completely the EGR (against emission law) or modifie the parameters of the EGR with a VAG-COM.
Let us know how much oil did u catch in that can???

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

The EGR is not the problem it is the CCV. If there is no oil from the CCV the most damage the EGR can do is a little soot. No oil no nasty gunk.
Kev...

Click to expand...

Wrongo Bucko! As much as I'd like to believe it's the CCV, experience has proven it not to be the culprit.

I have used the elephant hose mod along with the EGR mod almost from day 1 of new car ownership. A few weeks ago, the EGR valve was checked. Just a light coating of soot.

After removing the EGR valve, it was a shock to see the build-up of sludge in the intake manifold.

Conclusion: The only way to prevent this build up is to prevent the EGR valve from operating.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

I noticed the same thing on my car. There may be some slight griminess before the EGR, but once it hits the intake manifold it gets seriously gunked up. The only thing I can think that could cause this is all the soot from the exhaust that is introduced by the EGR to the intake.

Like Muggins said, bypassing the EGR is probably the only way to solve this problem.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

The normal blowby oil that ends up in the intake is cooked (like your BBQ) from the gases let in from the EGR. If you block the EGR you will not have the heat and no more gunk. However you will have a check engine light from time to time.

An Idea I am going to try this weekend.

Remove and turn the pipe from manifold to EGR valve. Reinstall pipe with a blocker plate to the manifold. Leave EGR valve open and with pipe turned down their will be room for the next part.

Install filter cut from an old air filter onto bottom of Egr valve.

Hypothesis is This. When EGR valve opens it will now draw in only fresh air no heat, no exhoust gas, no cooking of the oil in the intake. The MAF sensor will see a reduction in air flow just like normal and no check engine light.

The EGR valve closes during boost and so no leak out the EGR.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Um..... Why not just install a provent and call it a day?

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

So, what happens at idle when the EGR cycles open and you suck in all that unfiltered air from the engine compartment (you know, that whole 'path of least resistance' thing)?

Keith

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Raxum,

Your intake is pressurized by the turbo. If you vent the egr valve to atmosphere, it will not suck air in when opened, it will blow air out.

Greg Shortridge

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

At idle, the intake isn't pressurized, it's right around atmospheric.

And sorry, I missed the part about putting a filter element over the EGR inlet... (Just make sure you use a good element.)

CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Funny, I am running something almost like that right now, except substitute an Old Navy CCV for the puck and a tiny aftermarket (K&N lookalike) filter at the end of that hose. I am waiting to see what I get for oily fumes. Curious to see your outcome.

Julie

CCV Mod, Experimenting only

The proven method to prevent intake clogging:


Keith

CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Or you can use a stealth race pipe, by wingnut (EGR Modified). I just have a steel BB in the vaccuum hose going to the EGR.

I'll post after I see how much oil my "catch can" gets after 1 week of use, which will be this Sunday.

I guess since my EGR is disabled, I can just let my CCV go back to stock and not worry about it, right?

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

With the racepipe above (that's my car), I haven't had any clogging. About 40k miles on it so far. And you can see my stock CCV.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

EGR is active when the intake manifold is pressurized by the turbo. EGR duty cycle is reduced to minimum at idle.

Greg Shortridge

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

EGR is active when the intake manifold is pressurized by the turbo. EGR duty cycle is reduced to minimum at idle.

Greg Shortridge

Click to expand...

after two minutes I think at least on Euro models

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Ok I installed the pipe with blocking plate and filter as described. When watching air flow with scan tool at idle when you disconect the EGR vac hose you see a change in the air flow reading. Put the hose back on reading goes back to where it was so I am happy with this mod.

Just some EGR info on this diesel. It gets EGR from idle to 3000 rpm or when boost is present just watch your scan tool if you don't believe me.

Why I chose this mod? After cleaning the intake 4 times in 25k miles I am done with this problem. I don't ever want to clean the intake again thank you very much, and I don't want the check engine light on as well. I know there have been mixed results with differant mods so now I wash my hands of this problem.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Let us know how she runs out on the highway. I think you are going to get a severe boost leak through the egr valve you have vented to atmosphere.

On the other hand, if you are right and can draw in fresh air through the egr valve to fool the computer, I might do the same to my car. I currently have a blocking plate and a CEL.

I have been wrong before, but I still think egr is active when the intake manifold is pressurized by the turbo.

Greg Shortridge

CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Curious to see your outcome.

Julie

Click to expand...

Well here it is after a week, So this is what I got in my "Catch Can" (See first post). I'm sure there was a tiny bit of "new" unused oil in the bottom when I put it the car, but definitely not like this. This is like 3/4 of a tablespoon or so after one week of driving approx 30 miles a day, so about 250 miles.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

This is why I like the catch-can mod instead of the EGR. Even if the EGR is dissabled you still have this much oil in the intake stream that should not be there. Any diesel should have nothing but air all the way to the head. If you run the catch-can you might have to clean the manifold every 50-60k miles. If you do just the EGR mod you have god knows how much oil in the intake track. Much more to clean. I still stand behind my belief that there is no gunking with the CCV disconected. I took my EGR off yesterday and the intake has a light coating of soot that wipes off with my finger. Please see my earler post on this thread.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Raxum, how do you defeat the CEL with that set up?

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Interesting.

My course of events went something like this:

#1 - Got intake cleaned @ 55K miles by a 'shop'.
#2 - Turned down EGR right after.
#3 - Old Navy came up with the CCV filter, which was installed and routed to a catch can, thus stopping the flow of oily vapors into the intake.
#4 - Checked beyond the EGR after 6 months to find 'gunk' in the intake.
#5 - Installed racepipe last summer.
#6 - This summer at Impex got around to cleaning the intake only to find a very thin coating of oil. Somewhere along the line it cleaned itself. Bio? Who knows?

What works? Some combination of the above!

I have seen the Pro-Vent on a few cars. That has a serious filter media which seems to really clean the air going back in. I am leaning in that direction.

My current setup - (my first post) hasn't produced much oil, but I get nervous about venting potentially oily vapor near electrical components in the engine. It also reqiures me to be good about cleaning the Old Navy (which I am not). I have had NO smell at all in the cabin.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Just thinking out loud here:

What would happen inside the intake manifold if I didn't clean my intake and just left the CCV and EGR the way it is? Does the sludge in the manifold slowly dry up and burn away or is there a risk of having it flake off once it has dried up and do some damage to the engine?

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

You've never seen the pictures??

At some point it will completely block the intake with a gooey tough sludge. If a chunk happens to drop off before the engine sufficates, it could crack a valve.

Re: CCV Mod, Experimenting only

Weedeater,

Read my posts on this thread. I have the EGR already non functional and the CCV rerouted. No Intake Clogging should occur. But my question was if I didn't clean what is already in the intake? What would happen to it?

Well, here it is after 3 weeks. Very slow moving stuff when I tipped the bottle for this picture.


It looks to be about a little more than a tablespoon this time around.

Weedeater,

Read my posts on this thread. I have the EGR already non functional and the CCV rerouted. No Intake Clogging should occur. But my question was if I didn't clean what is already in the intake? What would happen to it (the stuff already inside the intake)?

Click to expand...

Would it dry up and get burned up over time?
Can someone answer this question?

I suspect that it is going throught the exhaust pipe. I did notice this in my driveway the other day:

Not really sure what it is, but I think it is stuff in the intake drying up and exiting the tail pipe when I start the car. That is what the pattern suggests to me. It isn't oil spots, I can tell you that.