PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 1 (N240): Regulation Range Exceeded

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I would expect you to have to remove the wipers and black plastic grill/cover. Be careful with the plastic if it is cold.

You have to unbolt the wiper mechanism as well? Because the main wiper has to be on the right side? Never thought of that.
 

blued

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Location
Scotland
TDI
Golf V 140 TDI
Yes I'm pretty sure the wiper mechanism will need to be moved. Its a shame they didnt put a removable panel on the ECU side similar to the one in front of the pollen filter. I noticed a bit of gunk in the area and the cable going to the ECU is damp so it is possible moisture got inside the casing.
 

blued

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Location
Scotland
TDI
Golf V 140 TDI
Quick update - the ECU was completely dry inside and I'm the first person to open it. The ECU is actually mounted in the middle and I think it would be difficult for water to get near it. I'm not sure what the white box under the wiper motor on the right side of the car, that I thought was the ECU, is.

I've adjusted 3 out of 4 injectors - all were pretty much spot on anyway. The last one I tried (cylinder 2) will need a new adjusting screw. I loosened the lock nut, backed off the adjuster and part of the thread from the underside cracked and fell off! Luckily the debris sat on top of the injector and didnt fall into the engine. VW don't stock this part so it'll be Tuesday before I can finish this off and test.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
If you used a dial indicator, tell us how you mounted it. I'd like to get a clamp for mine (I have the one I used for the old 1.6 liter IDI diesel injection pump adjustments)

--Nate
 

blued

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Location
Scotland
TDI
Golf V 140 TDI
I didnt use a dial indicator, just rotated the engine until the injector plunger was compressed the furthest. Took a bit of messing about but then it was possible to check it was in the right place by looking at the position of the cam lobe behind the rocker.
 

blued

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Location
Scotland
TDI
Golf V 140 TDI
Got the part today and it is a modified part. Fitted the screw and adjusted it, checked the wiring in the head and also from the plug that connects to the injector loom. All seems ok so cleared the fault codes and took the car for a run. After about 10 mins the light came on. Checked and the same codes are back.

Next I swapped injector 1 and 2 over. Cleared the fault codes and took it for a run again. Light came on and the fault code has moved to cylinder 2! Looks like a faulty injector then.

I have a set of injectors in the garage that I bought a couple of years ago. They also came from an AJM engine but have a slightly different part number.

In car - 038130073AK
Spare set - 038130073F

Judging by the boxes the injectors are in they were bought for a Ford. I believe the Galaxy uses the VW AJM so probably from one of them. Will it be ok to use one of these injectors? Only difference I can see is they have the modified part for the adjuster screw I have just bought so it is likely they came from a slightly later engine.
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Unfortunately the injectors are different according to BOSCH part numbers. Your best try would be to swap all the set, 4 injectors, and not the only one which is showing the fault code.
 

blued

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Location
Scotland
TDI
Golf V 140 TDI
Thanks for the info. That's a bit of a nightmare! I'll swap them over next time I get enough time with daylight.
 

blued

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Location
Scotland
TDI
Golf V 140 TDI
I changed the faulty injector last night to see if one of the others I had would run in my engine. It is like a different car! I think this injector must have been failing before the light even came on. I checked measuring blocks 013, 018 and 023 and all results look good. Is there any reason I can't leave it how it is and see how it goes for a while? I'm a bit relucatant to swap out all the injectors now it is running so well.

Bosch Part Numbers
0414720036
0414720007 (the replacement)
 

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
If it were my car, I would swap all the injectors. With different pn's, I would want to do everything possible to keep all my cylinders equal!
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I would tend to just run it, if it ran balanced, and it was in normal service (not dragging trailer, not racing, not highly tuned.)

Shoot me, I am not a purist, just an old farmer.
 

jdennison

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
WV
TDI
2004 JETTA TDI PD
If you used a dial indicator, tell us how you mounted it. I'd like to get a clamp for mine (I have the one I used for the old 1.6 liter IDI diesel injection pump adjustments)

--Nate
you need a mount for your dial indicator I can machine you one, you have any trading stock related to a n 04 Jetta Bew
 

TeamTurbo

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Location
Lithuania
TDI
TDI PD
Hello all and blued:) my engine is TDI PD 85kw and my car has fault like your (blued) but in all cylinders, when my car is about on 1500rpm, values in 023 block, reaches and stops at +127ms and then appear the same faults in all cylinders PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 1,2,3,4 Regulation Range Exceeded (codes 17669, 17672, 17675 17678) and ASR light is appear, and in 018 block from 0 appear 47.0. The car kilometer is only 220 000km, so it could be all bad injectors :confused:
 

slumiesboi

New member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Location
East London, South Africa
TDI
Volkswagen Polo 9n 1.9TDI
Hello all and blued:) my engine is TDI PD 85kw and my car has fault like your (blued) but in all cylinders, when my car is about on 1500rpm, values in 023 block, reaches and stops at +127ms and then appear the same faults in all cylinders PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 1,2,3,4 Regulation Range Exceeded (codes 17669, 17672, 17675 17678) and ASR light is appear, and in 018 block from 0 appear 47.0. The car kilometer is only 220 000km, so it could be all bad injectors :confused:
Did you ever get to the bottom of this problem? I've got the exact same issue on my PD100 motor.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Several years ago, we got a BRM in the shop and we were very new to the PD injector issues. We had a dead miss on #3. As we had a brand-new injector, we thought we had little to lose by trying it. The BRM injectors are marked 'CL', but we installed one that said 'BA". It ran exactly in the numbers and we could find no fault with it's performance or economy.

The car went back to the owner. We didn't bother telling the difference in the injector. He's driving it still, with great effect.

I have several contacts whom I have discussed a myriad of PD injector issues. There is a consensus that Bosch makes a lot of numbers, but the truth is, they aren't that many sizes. Same thing concerning the two-stage injector bodies. They all basically do exactly the same thing. Some are shimmed different than others.

To the point, you can drive a BEW 100 injector to 150 hp rather easily. As long as you don't over-amp the ECU driver; good to go. The overlap for injector sizes appears to be quite large.

Bluntly, if you don't match injector number, but the results show good in block 13, what exactly is your concern? If the injector doesn't work, change it out. But as for a suggestion to replace all three, that's easy advice if you aren't paying the bill... $400 a pop is what appears to be the going rate... I'd rather think they are more like glow plugs... they either work or they don't. We've even seen rather large disparity in flow rate numbers without loss of economy.

As for how quickly injectors wear, we have documented 450,000 miles on some sets. 200,000 are too many to count. What's this about worn out at 100K? Whatever.... I think if the solenoid is doing it's job, the nozzle will do just fine. If the PD's can't make it 100k, I guess the CR's won't make it 50k?? Sounds like 'salesman' math to me.

Clean fuel is VERY important. However, as we recently posted, there are some issues that a .00001"-size microbe can foul injectors and I know of no filter that will stop that. The other problem issue that effects all injectors is the amount of biodiesel that is virtually mandated in some US states, to be mixed into the dino-diesel fuel, to the rate of up to 20%(Illinois and probably others). That is impending failure from varnishing. You can't filter glycerine from diesel fuel. The damage it does is more to the solenoid's operation then the injector. In that case, forget the nozzle, you'd need a new body.
 
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oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
I agree that the ASR light is turning on only because of a fault code stored on the ECM.

I just do not see that an injector fault in the ECM would cause an ASR lamp to come on. I have seen several different injector faults, including some unplugged ones, and none ever caused a brake unit fault.

So I was thinking that two components in the ECU may be interacting, causing this set of symptoms. Either by bridging inside (water, corrosion) or externally by wires fretting and losing insulation, touching conductors.

Looks as if I might learn something here. Always a good thing.
Just wanted to bump this thread with a bit of clarifying info. My car was throwing similar codes. 2001 golf, originally ALH, swapped to PD using an EDC15 ecu and harness from a european ARL.

It would also illuminate the ASR traction control light when the injector would error out. I believe this is a normal reporting on all PD EDC15 ecus. All US spec PD ecus are EDC16 and I believe will just illuminate the CEL when showing this error.

-J
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Thanks for the update; it reminds me to send one as well. My hat is off to you - great attention to detail and forum support.

I recently had a 2004 BEW drop by that had a fault on the #4 injector. Turned out the wire in the valve cover had popped off. This car only had a CEL with the error, no ESP, ABS or ASR warning light came on.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
Came across this thread while just browsing then realized that DanG & oldpoopie were the last posters in 2 of the 3 threads in my active subscribed list in the user CP when I jumped on. :)
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Yeah, I took a break. The 2014 AC repair thread onslaught was too much for me, with some other life issues.

But I am much better, now.

It is good to see many of the same good hands still giving everyone so much help.

And thank you once more for that KP39 control ring.
 

Breaksjunky

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
Stockport UK
TDI
MK4 Golf GT TDI PD 130
HOLY POST RESURRECTION BAT MAN!!!

I was reading through this post just now because it is the closest post to the issues i am trying to get to the bottom of atm, i have 2 injector fault codes and an ECU code on my 2003 MK4 Golf GT TDI (ALZ) as well as the ESP warning light coming on after a short while then resets when turned off.

17627 PD UNIT INJECTOR CYLINDER 2 (N241) REGULATION RANGE EXCEEDED P1264 -
17675 PD UNIT INJECTOR CYLINDER 3 (N242) REGULATION RANGE EXCEEDED P1267 -
01314 ENGINE CONTROL MODULE 013 - CHECK DTC MEMORY -

However after changing the injector loom the problem still occurs, same codes too, so i got my car connected to VCDS and checked the injector blocks and they came back like this

-0.42 mg/str 0.35 mg/str -0.68 mg/str 0.73mg/str

So now i am at a loss... is it the ECU, is it the injectors? could it have been tuned badly?

I have no clue and each path is looking costly, if any of you lovely helpful people have any ideas on what i should do next please get in touch :) :) :)

My next steps will be to get the ECU out to inspect it further, if there is no apparent issue with that then what? :/

Thank you in advance anyone who may read this :)

Kind regards
Martyn
 
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Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Martyn,

Somewhere in the operation of the injectors, and it may be latent information, you have a maximum deviation or -2.99 or +3.01. That is not what your block 13 is showing as what I'd call very normal numbers.

My questions would be WHEN the deviation occurred. It could happen at startup. It could be in relation to the turbo. I'd clear codes and see if the problem doesn't occur at startup. We do have some engines that we had to change ECU coding to increase fueling from hard starts.
 

Breaksjunky

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
Stockport UK
TDI
MK4 Golf GT TDI PD 130
Martyn,

Somewhere in the operation of the injectors, and it may be latent information, you have a maximum deviation or -2.99 or +3.01. That is not what your block 13 is showing as what I'd call very normal numbers.

My questions would be WHEN the deviation occurred. It could happen at startup. It could be in relation to the turbo. I'd clear codes and see if the problem doesn't occur at startup. We do have some engines that we had to change ECU coding to increase fueling from hard starts.
Hi @Franko6 thank you for your speedy reply, please excuse my ignorance but I don't quite follow as I am not very savvy with cars and their complicated operations.
How do you mean when you say the numbers aren't normal? Looking at what I posted I did misstype 2 of the numbers, it should have read -0.42 0.35 -0.68 0.73 which I will edit shortly.

Also are you saying that I need to test block 13 upon start up? From cold?
It is normally after 10-15 mins of driving that the ESP light will come on, should I also observe block 13 when this happens too?

Thank you again for your assistance ����

Martyn
 
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Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Martyn,

Yes, cold start may be quite different than at operating temps. What is more, if the fueling is incorrect, which we have seen many TSB's for ECU reflashes... it could be insufficient fueling at startup. Check your engine's block 13 at cold start and see what happens.
 
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