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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old March 17th, 2019, 02:21   #1
Festa
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: South east uk
TDI(s): Vw t5 van
Default 5 pot pd power upgrades and port restrictions

Morning Guys
There seems to be a lot more tuning potential on the 1.9/2 litre pd's than that of the R5 engine that is fitted to the t5 van(europe) or the Touareg using the same engine. I'm now at 348bhp with a gen 1 gt2260 hybrid with ported head and other mods, but the head is the restriction because of the port design. Too much material removed here on the inlet or the exhaust will mean break through to the injector, oil or water galleries. I've had 1/2 pint of material removed with an increase of 3% but an increase is an increase.

I'm running with 2.6 bar of boost with an emp of around 3.5-4 bar but egt's are peaking at 980c with the water injection, this could possibly need a larger injector from the 5 that I'm running to a 7, but don't want to quench to much at low boost.
I had been having head lift a while ago but I've over come that at this present time but I'm building another engine with a lower compression and trying to do better than I currently have. I have a gen 3 gtb2260v from a bmw which is being vacuum converted as it will hopefully spool a lot sooner than my current hybrid, but I haven't decided on what wheels to use in the hybrid because of the potental restrictions in the head.
I aslo have +80 farid nozzles, balanced rotational stuff which includes lighted rods/pistons so around 600 grams lighter over oe.

So I need to ask the question of what path you guy's may take so I can make up my mind as I can't see the point of spending big $$$$ on something which I maybe at the limits of already.
The sachs 4 puck paddle is breaking away but I think that's the milage on the dmf.
Help always appreciated
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Old March 17th, 2019, 08:44   #2
Amphibious699
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Hi Festa,


To find out what are you aiming to achieve around HP/BHP for a daily drive? Or do you want to stay at the 350bhp.



Also i would look at upgrading the 80% to 120% this will help at lowering the EMP and EGT.


On the PD's our constraints will always be the head.


Thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by Festa View Post
Morning Guys
There seems to be a lot more tuning potential on the 1.9/2 litre pd's than that of the R5 engine that is fitted to the t5 van(europe) or the Touareg using the same engine. I'm now at 348bhp with a gen 1 gt2260 hybrid with ported head and other mods, but the head is the restriction because of the port design. Too much material removed here on the inlet or the exhaust will mean break through to the injector, oil or water galleries. I've had 1/2 pint of material removed with an increase of 3% but an increase is an increase.

I'm running with 2.6 bar of boost with an emp of around 3.5-4 bar but egt's are peaking at 980c with the water injection, this could possibly need a larger injector from the 5 that I'm running to a 7, but don't want to quench to much at low boost.
I had been having head lift a while ago but I've over come that at this present time but I'm building another engine with a lower compression and trying to do better than I currently have. I have a gen 3 gtb2260v from a bmw which is being vacuum converted as it will hopefully spool a lot sooner than my current hybrid, but I haven't decided on what wheels to use in the hybrid because of the potental restrictions in the head.
I aslo have +80 farid nozzles, balanced rotational stuff which includes lighted rods/pistons so around 600 grams lighter over oe.

So I need to ask the question of what path you guy's may take so I can make up my mind as I can't see the point of spending big $$$$ on something which I maybe at the limits of already.
The sachs 4 puck paddle is breaking away but I think that's the milage on the dmf.
Help always appreciated
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Old March 17th, 2019, 08:54   #3
martin33100
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I think your other BMW gen 3 turbo may help with EMP, bigger hole nozzles can have the trade off with more smoke due to less atomisation.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 09:31   #4
MarkoP
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Default

From my experience there is not much difference between 5cyl and 1.9 head flow or cross section areas when ported.
And as 1.9 diesels are running above 400hp power levels, I do not think you are head limited.

To me the biggest restriction looks like turbo in your combination.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 09:35   #5
martin33100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkoP View Post
From my experience there is not much difference between 5cyl and 1.9 head flow or cross section areas when ported.
And as 1.9 diesels are running above 400hp power levels, I do not think you are head limited.

To me the biggest restriction looks like turbo in your combination.
The 2.5PD heads have much smaller ports compared to the 1.9 though and the inlets can't really be opened up as much?

Last edited by martin33100; March 17th, 2019 at 09:38.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 10:57   #6
MarkoP
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I have experience only from AXE type of heads and they can be made about identical to 1.9tdi.
Flow and port areas are the same.
It may be that there are other type of 2.5PD heads which have smaller runners.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 11:25   #7
Festa
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Location: South east uk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkoP View Post
I have experience only from AXE type of heads and they can be made about identical to 1.9tdi.
Flow and port areas are the same.
It may be that there are other type of 2.5PD heads which have smaller runners.
The axe is what I had and now run with a bnz block, toareg crank. Still have the piston oil squirters. The heads are the same across the two models of t5 engines being the early and later, the touareg also shares the same head on the 2.5 and one of the heads on the v10.
I want to see what can be got from this engine even though I did say once that I want to double it's power of 174 ps. I still think there is more to come but it's at what cost. I've decided to take the vehicle off the road at the end of the month as I have found that one or two of the inlet followers have failed and I'm getting popping back through the air cleaner, This was the same on the rolling road on Friday so a sick engine still produced good power and torque. I have the graph but can't upload it but I'm sure Martin will as he has a copy.
I don't think fuel is the issue as the turbo can still supply air but the egt's are getting out of hand, I run with +80's and don't want to increase smoke levels so the fuelling has been pulled back. I don't know what I want till I get there
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Old March 17th, 2019, 11:32   #8
martin33100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkoP View Post
I have experience only from AXE type of heads and they can be made about identical to 1.9tdi.
Flow and port areas are the same.
It may be that there are other type of 2.5PD heads which have smaller runners.
AXD,AXE,BNZ,BPC all use the same head.
It's good to hear that you got good results from one.
Portformance in the UK have done many VW heads including the 1.9PD's with good results but couldn't do much with the 2.5PD head.
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Old March 18th, 2019, 02:57   #9
mk3pd
 
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Location: Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Festa View Post
Morning Guys
There seems to be a lot more tuning potential on the 1.9/2 litre pd's than that of the R5 engine that is fitted to the t5 van(europe) or the Touareg using the same engine. I'm now at 348bhp with a gen 1 gt2260 hybrid with ported head and other mods, but the head is the restriction because of the port design. Too much material removed here on the inlet or the exhaust will mean break through to the injector, oil or water galleries. I've had 1/2 pint of material removed with an increase of 3% but an increase is an increase.

I'm running with 2.6 bar of boost with an emp of around 3.5-4 bar but egt's are peaking at 980c with the water injection, this could possibly need a larger injector from the 5 that I'm running to a 7, but don't want to quench to much at low boost.
I had been having head lift a while ago but I've over come that at this present time but I'm building another engine with a lower compression and trying to do better than I currently have. I have a gen 3 gtb2260v from a bmw which is being vacuum converted as it will hopefully spool a lot sooner than my current hybrid, but I haven't decided on what wheels to use in the hybrid because of the potental restrictions in the head.
I aslo have +80 farid nozzles, balanced rotational stuff which includes lighted rods/pistons so around 600 grams lighter over oe.

So I need to ask the question of what path you guy's may take so I can make up my mind as I can't see the point of spending big $$$$ on something which I maybe at the limits of already.
The sachs 4 puck paddle is breaking away but I think that's the milage on the dmf.
Help always appreciated
2.6bar on a 2260 is a bit off scale be it a hybrid or not
Power limit will be in the turbo anyway
5pd is a crossflow head,so theoretically it should open up better design for intake/exhaust manifold.
120% firad on a 5pot is not going to do anything,except making it difficult to tune
You need a bigger turbo to make more power
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Old March 18th, 2019, 13:25   #10
Festa
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: South east uk
TDI(s): Vw t5 van
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3pd View Post
2.6bar on a 2260 is a bit off scale be it a hybrid or not
Power limit will be in the turbo anyway
5pd is a crossflow head,so theoretically it should open up better design for intake/exhaust manifold.
120% firad on a 5pot is not going to do anything,except making it difficult to tune
You need a bigger turbo to make more power

Thanks for the response

1: I don't want even larger injectors as there is enough fuelling with the +80's.
2: I've tried a reground camshaft with a pd150 profile and I found it too hard on the poor cam followers. Seem to get more hammering with the lobes losing contact even though I have your Rosten springs in
3: Head has been worked on by Portformance in the uk and he stated that it's probbly the worst flowing head he's seen. Can't comment on that as I don't do stuff like that.
4: Ceramic coating to be applied to exhaust manifold, tops and back of pistons and turbo hot side.

I've just been unlucky with the original block and it's sick...the gears have a bit of backlash on the aux. side and some of the followers are knackered as the engine fires back into the air cleaner...If you have a suggestion on what followers to use I'm listening but I've been using the dlc's, even so it still produces good power.
The new block is at the machine shop having new liners fitted and the pistons I have choosen sit 0.4mm lower than the current oe and they are the 0.5mm over sized. I need to reduce the weight of these as I'm trying to stay near the same weight as the existing Niral but I need to remove if possible 20g but I don't think that will happen as that's a lot of material.
The top ring is also .5mm thinner than oe so should help reduce friction.
The gt2260 hybrid has been good but it's old tech now but it has been machine/built to support 2.8 bar. The manifold that I had made 4 years ago now I'm going to use again and just alter to suit the V band and I'll decide on what turbine/compressor wheel to use.
I'm hoping the turbo I've choosen should spool earlier and produce good power but I don;t want to get a turbo built to support say 500bhp but only able to get 380 bhp.

I was supposed to be going upto Santa pod in April to have a laugh and see what times the old girl will do but with a bit of fluid leaking out the bottom and the noise that comes out the engine bay I may give it a miss until later in the year.


Thanks all for the input.
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