Help me understand my engine map (1.9L ALH) (Or I intend to do stupid things)

Sbeghan

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Which maps did you change? What were their names, sizes, addresses? Can you post your binary?
I too am interested in how to set the hot idle as I'd like to make a generator out of an alh.
 
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robnitro

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In the post I made for dynamic idle, there are two numbers, on one map it says 903/ whatever you want cold. The other, 943/other cold. Perhaps if you change that smaller number it will high idle?

If all else fails, with vagedcsuite, just do search for 903, you see another map that shows atmospheric pressure, and intake temp with rpm values.

For calibration, check vagedcsuite, map linearization. Find the spec sheet for the 4bar map and put in the low and high value. Ex: bosch 3bar paper says low is 200mbar and high is 3000mbar.
 

Growler

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Have any of you guys found the values for hot idle? I need mine to idle at 1050-1100 while fully warmed up and haven't had much luck.. I changed all of the temp/idle speed maps to taper to 1100 at 90C, but it always drops to 903 after about 90-120 seconds of running.. Can't find MAP sensor calibration either.. Found most everything else, and found a few things in the hex view.. Still learning the OLS software but I'll eventually make a 6000rpm 4bar tune that passes an OBD2 readiness test..

Malone was able to do this on my 2003 Wagon so it is possible.

I have the dynamic Idle in my tune that keeps it at 1200rpm until the temperature gets above 130 or so, then idle will drop to 1047 or so at all other times while the engine is warmed up. even when using basic settings in vcds it keeps the idle at 1047. looking at vcds it looks like my IQ is adjusted up from what I would consider normal levels to keep the idle higher.

he also said that he had to change the idle value in about 6 other places and that at the time (tdifest 2011) I was the only one crazy enough to ask for this feature.

hope this helps.
 

Sbeghan

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Some maps are identified in european ECUs that aren't identified in american ECUs. For instance, the MAP linearization, etc. Grab a european ALH map from the original files forum here and open it. Find the MAP linearization map and note its position and values and search for it in your american ECU. I've been working on a list of these to give dilemma.

My MAP linearization map is 2D 000549F6 DC9C, length 4
Search for value 200. There are two of them, one for manual and the other for automatic.
 

Sbeghan

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Well, I tried editing the two maps that are unidentified but look like idle maps (rpm, temp, and atmospheric pressure, 5x4 maps). However, they did nothing that I could see cold or hot.

rob, I took logs with VCDS of my duty cycle. I was thinking that the way it worked was the N75 duty cycle map was the maximum duty cycle for a given RPM/Fuel combo and it would adjust the duty cycle up to the maximum to try to achieve the specified MAP, and if it went over it it would lower the duty cycle.
Well, I see in my logs at ~2700 rpm duty cycles of 80 and 73 and boosts of 2540 and 2448 mbar respectively, but when I look in vagsuite I see the N75 DC map says that I should be getting around 61-63% duty cycle at those rpms and fueling (42-43mg).
The pressure stabilizes around 2200mbar (which is what is specified) at around 66% duty cycle and then over 4000 rpm when fueling cuts off but requested boost does not the duty cycle slowly raises to 73% at 4400 rpm and 1940 mbar.

Once it overshoots and stabilizes the specified and actual are spot on, problem is, it overshoots! significantly! And the N75 duty cycle map is basically spot on with my VCDS logs. Is there any way to put a ceiling on the duty cycle and tell it not to go above 70% at 3500 rpm, EVER (for instance?).
 

robnitro

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The n75dc map asks for 63 which makes you overshoot, quickly ecu tries to compensate, you get 80 then high 60s. I would do the best thing for your turbo: adjust the actuator. Some like to make it start moving at 4in hg, and full stop at 18-20in hg.

The way I do it: I adjust the actuator so that theres a bit of tension pushing up, which would be compensated by the lower dc (63) on your map.

Then you can be sure what values to use. Right now I have perfect control... a tiny bit of undershoot if Imash it to wot which I dont mind to keep the turbo safer.
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
In the post I made for dynamic idle, there are two numbers, on one map it says 903/ whatever you want cold. The other, 943/other cold. Perhaps if you change that smaller number it will high idle?

If all else fails, with vagedcsuite, just do search for 903, you see another map that shows atmospheric pressure, and intake temp with rpm values.

For calibration, check vagedcsuite, map linearization. Find the spec sheet for the 4bar map and put in the low and high value. Ex: bosch 3bar paper says low is 200mbar and high is 3000mbar.
There is only the MAF linearization in edcsuite, nothing for the MAP.. I know what to enter since I do have the spec sheet for the sensor (GM 4bar absolute), just can't find where to enter it...

I'd really like to eliminate the MAF and do MAP based fueling, but the switch doesn't show up in edcsuite.. I have to comb through the map in OLS and find it..

I searched for 903 and only 4 different ones showed up, none of which change the idle speed after 2 minutes of running..
 

Growler

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what is 903 in hexadecimal numbers? perhaps search for that and change it to whatever 1047 is in hexadecimal numbers.
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
It seems like it only searches through the maps it "finds" when you open the file instead of searching throughout the whole file..

Sooner or later I'll find it lol

I found the map linearization in a different file so I'll see if there's something similar in my file

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 

robnitro

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But when you search these files, it is reverse endian. So 03 87 shows up as 87 03.
(same as when I modded video card bioses, lol).

Basically, its a 16 bit number (8 bit only goes up to 255- from 00 to ff), so it has 2 of 8bit to go from 255 to 65535.

Not sure how the idle goes. Did you try to change that 2x1 idle map to both have the same number?

Right now I am trying to change the 51mg limit but I think screw it because I'm right at the point where I can make a bit of smoke (hammer mod down to 3.6 at idle- 1.52v) and now I can tweak the smoke map at the top end.

I've also tried running lower boost at IQ below 25 or so, it is smokeless but a bit drony. I may add some boost just to let the turbo quiet the engine.
 

Digital Corpus

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But when you search these files, it is reverse endian. So 03 87 shows up as 87 03.
(same as when I modded video card bioses, lol).

Basically, its a 16 bit number (8 bit only goes up to 255- from 00 to ff), so it has 2 of 8bit to go from 255 to 65535.

Not sure how the idle goes. Did you try to change that 2x1 idle map to both have the same number?

Right now I am trying to change the 51mg limit but I think screw it because I'm right at the point where I can make a bit of smoke (hammer mod down to 3.6 at idle- 1.52v) and now I can tweak the smoke map at the top end.

I've also tried running lower boost at IQ below 25 or so, it is smokeless but a bit drony. I may add some boost just to let the turbo quiet the engine.
The endian-ness is byte level, not bit level, right? I've never really worked with embedded systems at this level.
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
the way the pump voltage is set up, 51mg puts the QA just about at the end of its stroke.. If you recalibrate it so that full pump voltage is 70mg, it'll still be the same amount of actual fuel since the QA will be in the same spot but reporting 70mg instead of 51..

But when you search these files, it is reverse endian. So 03 87 shows up as 87 03.
(same as when I modded video card bioses, lol).

Basically, its a 16 bit number (8 bit only goes up to 255- from 00 to ff), so it has 2 of 8bit to go from 255 to 65535.

Not sure how the idle goes. Did you try to change that 2x1 idle map to both have the same number?

Right now I am trying to change the 51mg limit but I think screw it because I'm right at the point where I can make a bit of smoke (hammer mod down to 3.6 at idle- 1.52v) and now I can tweak the smoke map at the top end.

I've also tried running lower boost at IQ below 25 or so, it is smokeless but a bit drony. I may add some boost just to let the turbo quiet the engine.
 

Digital Corpus

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Before trying to recalibrate the field's values, I suggest having a read here when I asked if it's possible to make this value represent actual fueling on a modified engine.
the way the pump voltage is set up, 51mg puts the QA just about at the end of its stroke.. If you recalibrate it so that full pump voltage is 70mg, it'll still be the same amount of actual fuel since the QA will be in the same spot but reporting 70mg instead of 51..
 

robnitro

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Yeah, it's just that this 11mm /.232 map someone made was calibrated up to 65mg/s so I was figuring to use it as it is. Instead of that, I just put it in with the normal mg/s axis, of course it works fine. Just when I do the smoke map, I pretty much know that 51 is more like 65 or so.

The 51mg limit/diagnostic change is not worth it imho. Pain in the butt to find the addresses lol.
 

Sbeghan

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I'm curious, if you stick a nozzle on it that flows say, 12% more fuel because it has a 12% larger hole size couldn't you just scale the fueling values by that?

Thanks for the tip on the reversed bytes on the search! I was really confused why I could search for say, 200 but not 903. This should help immensely.
 

Sbeghan

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Rob, do you know anything about the PID boost controller in the ECU? I'm reading that boost is controlled by both a PID controller and the static map and that is the reason that I am getting the initial n75 duty cycle of 80 and resultant overboost. Now I could take my skid plate off and adjust my turbo actuator but that feels... Inelegant to me. I think if I can edit the pid controller parameters I can damp it so it doesn't overshoot.

Do you know where to find this?
 

robnitro

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You can't scale it linearly... from ecuconnections it was explained how injectors operate differently at different pressures/flows. To make a really good smoke map, boost map, and SOI map, you need it to be accurate down low also, so you can calculate/estimate how much is really going in. So when it says 20, you want it to be 20. Except in the case of this map, it scaled up to 65, so when I run it, I have to do 65/51=1.27x the value. 20 becomes 25.4 etc.

But it's close to linear they say, except when going from 10mm to 11mm pump, changing that main pressure makes some big changes, or so they said.

well, if you flash that file, all should already be taken care of LOL..
It was a screenshot of someone on ecuconnections who calibrated different maps for 11mm pumps. I actually typed in all the values, LOL.

It's great though, someone also did a map for 12 mm pump/232. If you need any of em let me know
 

eddie_1

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Have any of you guys found the values for hot idle? I need mine to idle at 1050-1100 while fully warmed up and haven't had much luck.. I changed all of the temp/idle speed maps to taper to 1100 at 90C, but it always drops to 903 after about 90-120 seconds of running.. Can't find MAP sensor calibration either.. Found most everything else, and found a few things in the hex view.. Still learning the OLS software but I'll eventually make a 6000rpm 4bar tune that passes an OBD2 readiness test..
Great to see you got going on this!
 

robnitro

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sbeghan, dont play with n75 pid... just make your actuator right, log again, then set the n75 map to what you need for that boost. This will reduce overshoot/spike. A bit is ok btw.



Before trying to recalibrate the field's values, I suggest having a read here when I asked if it's possible to make this value represent actual fueling on a modified engine.
Yeah it looks like something that requires a proper test bench.

I tuned the smoke map to max out at 1050 as the maf is saturated at 2.5bar+ past 3500 or so anyway. Then hammer mod to where smoke is barely visible. Then I can use vag com to move down a bit (or up if I want to roll coal lol)
The lower maf ranges have a different afr so less fuel for the air compared to 1050+, for efficiency. Then with that, set up the boost map to correspond to the air required for that iq.
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
It was a screenshot of someone on ecuconnections who calibrated different maps for 11mm pumps. I actually typed in all the values, LOL.

It's great though, someone also did a map for 12 mm pump/232. If you need any of em let me know

That makes more sense lol... I should send you my 03's ECU file and see if you can find the MAP linearization.. I pulled a file from a customer's 01 and it shows right up, but 00-01 files don't work in the 02-03 ECU.. There are glow plug wiring differences and the immo is different.. haven't pulled the trigger on any of the immo-off devices yet..
 

Sbeghan

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rob, my actuator should be right. I tuned it to start moving at 4inhg when I installed it in the car and it was set there last I checked. I really don't feel like messing with it right now as its cold and wet outside.:p

From user dieseljohnny from ecuconnections:

I have found this to be accurate with regards to my ECU.
Locate the boost target map and make note of the address. Sort the maps by address and look for the unnamed maps with addresses just before the boost target map and you will locate a small 0 0 map, then the PID X?, PID D, Upper N75 limit, Lower N75 limiter, and PID I maps.
The Lower N75 limiter has flat values of 500 and a Y axis of rpms. The upper N75 limiter has values starting at 7500.
Please note that VCDS reverses the N75 duty cycle numbers in the ECU.
7500 is 75% duty cycle, vag com reports 25% duty cycle. VagSuite has also reversed these numbers to avoid confusion with VCDS.
So the lower limiter actually is saying that it can have a duty cycle of 10000-500 = 9500 = 95% across the board.

First I'm going to try raising my lower limiter values to 3000 (70% max duty cycle) and see if that fixes my boost spikes. This should be equivalent to changing my turbo actuator length. If that does not then I will start digging into the PID controller (first to confirm that those are the PID X?, D, and I maps respectively).
I still think digging into the PID controller would be better as I would still be able to have a quick turbo response but damp out those spikes, whereas limiting the duty cycle is kind of a hamfisted response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
It looks like really tuning a PID controller is difficult, but for my desire I could simply scale the PID I map in half and that should greatly (hopefully overdampen) dampen the oscillations and overboost.
The simple explanation of the PID controller is that the P factor is proportional. If actual MAP and target MAP are different the difference D is mapped to a proportional response. IE. 100 mbar difference -> 5% change in the N75 DC. I think the Y axis in the PID maps is the difference in mbar from actual MAP and target MAP, and the mapped values are the change in the N75 DC.
The PID I factor is integrative over the Dt factor (length of time it integrates over). Initially if there is a change from actual MAP and target MAP PID I is still 0 or close to 0. As time passes and the MAP difference D is not corrected the PID I factor increases. The table should be the same as the PID P map, look up the PID I factor in mbar on the Y axis to find the duty cycle response.
The PID D factor is derivative and, I think, also uses the same Dt factor (though it doesn't need to).
The PID controller looks up each individual P I D factor and sums them to get the final N75 DC value.

For the record my maps are at:
353372: Upper N75 DC limiter
353304: Lower N75 DC limiter
353236: N75 PID I
353440: N75 PID D
353508: N75 PID X?
354262: N75 PID P (I think)

Also: There seem to be two separate control schemes for the N75 valve. Under a particular RPM, boost, or fueling (I'm still not sure) the static map is used (The N75 duty cycle map). When a condition is met the ECU switches to the PID controller to meet the boost target map and the N75 duty cycle map is ignored. I'm going to try to locate the switch so that it can be changed. I think if you don't do this then simply editing the static map will have no effect on boost spikes because the ECU will be using the PID controller and not the static map.
 
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Sbeghan

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guys, if you come across any interesting maps or graphics why don't you post them here?
Rob, you said that you had some images of voltage maps that were calibrated for various pumps and nozzles. Why don't you zip them up and upload them to the forums and link to them here?
 

robnitro

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JASON, search for 200 in vagsuite to find map linearization. For some reason the higher value doesn't get found.


http://www.2shared.com/file/pPiI8pQ-/injectorsstuff.html
Can't upload zips here.
Some maps are set in real volts (like easy mode in vagsuite), some in actual values (like decimal in vagsuite).

(lets take the values shown on vagsuite easy- where low is vanes closed/more boost)

I think in your case it is the static n75 map because your map values are lower (more boost) than what happens in real life logging.

Just try the simple thing, set the n75 map to be where you got in your logs where the boost stabilized. The reason why PID is affecting you now is because the stock n75 value is TOO LOW (too much boost). The stock n75 tune is set to way less fueling, now you increased it, hence the spikes. You can take the last 2 rows and do multiply by .99 until it matches the values you logged (when boost stabilized).

If you do find that other map, I would like to check it out. I just think that until you get your static map dead on, you will have overshoot or undershoot. I was having undershoot, because my actuator is set conservative. Changing the map fixed it.
 
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Sbeghan

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rob, my VCDS logs of the N75 DC when the boost stabilized were spot on with the original N75 DC map. They were 0-1% off. There was nothing for me to change.
That's why I'm looking at the PID controller. I'm flashing my ECU now and I'll let you know how that goes.
 

robnitro

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No, you said your values were off, even 3-5% can do a lot. (added: a stock map goes up to 70 lets say, and I've seen modded maps go up to 75-78... fueling changes how much the n75 is needed- with little fuel you need the vanes closed more than with more fueling)
Well, I see in my logs at ~2700 rpm duty cycles of 80 and 73 and boosts of 2540 and 2448 mbar respectively, but when I look in vagsuite I see the N75 DC map says that I should be getting around 61-63% duty cycle at those rpms and fueling (42-43mg).
The pressure stabilizes around 2200mbar (which is what is specified) at around 66% duty cycle and then over 4000 rpm when fueling cuts off but requested boost does not the duty cycle slowly raises to 73% at 4400 rpm and 1940 mbar.
Your map says 61-63. The actual that comes when you stabilize is 66%. That is enough to cause a spike that will throw the system off. I understand you wanna reduce PID reaction, but it would also help to multiply those last two rows by 1.05 in vagsuite, so it matches the 66% at the number you see.
 
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