Drag Racing
- Thread starter woodsrat
- Start date
dieselpower04
Veteran Member
Drag racing diesels is a lot of fun! They just aren't that fast, usually! 
Most of the trucks that run with us are in the 9-13 sec range. We have some that are faster, couple rails on the 6-7 sec range. some tube cars in the 8 sec area.
Kind of wondering about adding this class. Not getting much of a response for the amount of cars we have had show up at our races. Just came back from the PRI show and had several people ask about running them but need some rules to start with.
Kind of wondering about adding this class. Not getting much of a response for the amount of cars we have had show up at our races. Just came back from the PRI show and had several people ask about running them but need some rules to start with.
G60ING
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2001
- Location
- MD
- TDI
- No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
what type of rules are you thinking? Accepted Modification in each level?
I think suspension should be unlimited in all classes and then there is a 100% stock, a chip/injector upgrade class and then an unlimited class.
I think suspension should be unlimited in all classes and then there is a 100% stock, a chip/injector upgrade class and then an unlimited class.
Yes that is what we are looking for. But since Im from the truck world, I have no idea what you guys consider modified.
Ben Dur
Veteran Member
exhaust is should be considered a minor modification, yielding typical very little benifet
intake modifications should also be considered a minor modification
both of the above would yield something like 5 hp gain. at best
the real power modifications are really related to Boost, and Fuel!
and of course weight reduction.
their are too many options of tuning and injectors to really standardize classes based on that alone.
lets take a look at 2 tunes from 2 seperate tuners.
one custom built stage 3 from RC, one email tune from Malone stage 3.
both of these tunes should put the stock turbo at its threshold. but one could be considerably more powerful (15hp maybe more)
injectors(nozzles rather) are another point which could cause alot of difficulties in classing, as they are aesthetically identical. the only way to know what a competitor is running is to disassemble. Further Um ratings could be a little crude in the way of classing, as "prothe" nazzles at 216 would not flow nearly as well as popped and tested T4 nozzles in a very close Um range.
lets go one further. Prothe 216 nozzles and malone stage 3 vs popped and tested Bosch T4s with RC stage 3 (custom built). obviously (to anyone in the community) the T4 RC car is going to produce probably 25-30 hp more than the 216 MT car.
so you see TDI's are rather difficult to class like this
a better method for TDI's would be a traditional bracket race, or a nontraditional class method based on boost levels because most people are going to run the minimum boost for a given power output anyhow, because big turbos are expensive. the limiting factor then in a given class is (physically but not stated in rules) EGT so for a given class with a given MAX BOOST limit, it would be rather difficult to produce more than a said HP level.
Further within a given class, a minimum weight should be declared, or maximum amount of weight shedding modifications.
lets look back at the RC and MT cars. The MT car weights in (in stock form) at 3000lbs. the RC car with the same "declared modifications" (producing significantly more power) weighs in at 2775, with a full interior minus a back seat spare, some light wheels and a lightweight battery.
the unlimited class would be rather easy. you declare minimum weight and safety equipment, declare illegal modifications, and let the mechanics do their thing.
its the "stock" "street modified" "race prepared" classes that are hard to separate.
"stock"
-remove anything that the owners manual explains to remove (floor mats, spare, tools, passenger headrests etc.)
-turbo back exhaust is un-restricted provided a cat is in place, exhaust must exit from beneath the vehicle (side or rear)
-intake modifications before the turbo are unrestricted provided a MAF is in place and MAF based tune has not been altered
-wheels are to be between 15 and 17 inches in diameter no wider than 225 (the widest tire placed on a mk4 from VW) all street tires legal, a street tire would be defined as any tire with a wear rating higher than ----
street modified
-turbo back exhaust unlimited
-stock turbo
-intake unlimited
-ECU unlimited
-rear set can now be removed
-wheels same as stock
-tires ------
race prepared
-minimum weight is to be no less than xxxx
-turbos can be modified. injectors etc not limited.
-maixmum boost is to be no greater than blah blah blah
-state specific required equipment blah blah blah
-minimum safety requirements blah blah blah
-tire must be within blah blah blah
unlimited
-tire requirements
-safety requirement
-aerodynamic
-fuel
-nitrous oxide?
-etc
all classes must use (whatever requirement fuel)
---------------------------------------------------------------
i know most people would find arguments with half of those "rules" i just made up but really with tdi's there are so many combination of modifications, 85% of which are specifically designed to be invisible, that it would be very difficult to class them any differently...
further there is just not that many TDI's trying to drag race. its not like mustangs where 45% of the cars that show up to a given test and tune are going to have the same motor and be within 175lbs of each other.
if at a given event 4 tdi's show up, i could almost bet that one is an auto, one is an alh, one is a bew, and no more than 2 are even the same model.
intake modifications should also be considered a minor modification
both of the above would yield something like 5 hp gain. at best
the real power modifications are really related to Boost, and Fuel!
and of course weight reduction.
their are too many options of tuning and injectors to really standardize classes based on that alone.
lets take a look at 2 tunes from 2 seperate tuners.
one custom built stage 3 from RC, one email tune from Malone stage 3.
both of these tunes should put the stock turbo at its threshold. but one could be considerably more powerful (15hp maybe more)
injectors(nozzles rather) are another point which could cause alot of difficulties in classing, as they are aesthetically identical. the only way to know what a competitor is running is to disassemble. Further Um ratings could be a little crude in the way of classing, as "prothe" nazzles at 216 would not flow nearly as well as popped and tested T4 nozzles in a very close Um range.
lets go one further. Prothe 216 nozzles and malone stage 3 vs popped and tested Bosch T4s with RC stage 3 (custom built). obviously (to anyone in the community) the T4 RC car is going to produce probably 25-30 hp more than the 216 MT car.
so you see TDI's are rather difficult to class like this
a better method for TDI's would be a traditional bracket race, or a nontraditional class method based on boost levels because most people are going to run the minimum boost for a given power output anyhow, because big turbos are expensive. the limiting factor then in a given class is (physically but not stated in rules) EGT so for a given class with a given MAX BOOST limit, it would be rather difficult to produce more than a said HP level.
Further within a given class, a minimum weight should be declared, or maximum amount of weight shedding modifications.
lets look back at the RC and MT cars. The MT car weights in (in stock form) at 3000lbs. the RC car with the same "declared modifications" (producing significantly more power) weighs in at 2775, with a full interior minus a back seat spare, some light wheels and a lightweight battery.
the unlimited class would be rather easy. you declare minimum weight and safety equipment, declare illegal modifications, and let the mechanics do their thing.
its the "stock" "street modified" "race prepared" classes that are hard to separate.
"stock"
-remove anything that the owners manual explains to remove (floor mats, spare, tools, passenger headrests etc.)
-turbo back exhaust is un-restricted provided a cat is in place, exhaust must exit from beneath the vehicle (side or rear)
-intake modifications before the turbo are unrestricted provided a MAF is in place and MAF based tune has not been altered
-wheels are to be between 15 and 17 inches in diameter no wider than 225 (the widest tire placed on a mk4 from VW) all street tires legal, a street tire would be defined as any tire with a wear rating higher than ----
street modified
-turbo back exhaust unlimited
-stock turbo
-intake unlimited
-ECU unlimited
-rear set can now be removed
-wheels same as stock
-tires ------
race prepared
-minimum weight is to be no less than xxxx
-turbos can be modified. injectors etc not limited.
-maixmum boost is to be no greater than blah blah blah
-state specific required equipment blah blah blah
-minimum safety requirements blah blah blah
-tire must be within blah blah blah
unlimited
-tire requirements
-safety requirement
-aerodynamic
-fuel
-nitrous oxide?
-etc
all classes must use (whatever requirement fuel)
---------------------------------------------------------------
i know most people would find arguments with half of those "rules" i just made up but really with tdi's there are so many combination of modifications, 85% of which are specifically designed to be invisible, that it would be very difficult to class them any differently...
further there is just not that many TDI's trying to drag race. its not like mustangs where 45% of the cars that show up to a given test and tune are going to have the same motor and be within 175lbs of each other.
if at a given event 4 tdi's show up, i could almost bet that one is an auto, one is an alh, one is a bew, and no more than 2 are even the same model.
Last edited:
FuelMileage.com
Member
sounds good.
We like racing gas cars in order to prove that we can keep up and still get better mileage!
We like racing gas cars in order to prove that we can keep up and still get better mileage!
Ben Dur
Veteran Member
at a drag strip
against a gasser with similar displacement, boost levels, and vehicle weight, our tdi's will ,simply, not keep up.
for a TDI to keep up, it must be bigger displacement, running higher boost, or lighter. realistically a little of each
if you compare the 1/4th mile times of most of the cars on this forum, they are on par with a bone stock to lightly modified RSX.
the RSX is a NA 2.0 of similar weight to a mk4 golf or jetta. coming in around 15 seconds. thats stock vs a modified TDI
if modifications are considered, the TDI is in a much higher class, and only then would it be beating the stock, or lightly modified RSX.
the RSX is only one consideration. sure there are plenty of gassers that cannot keep up with my TDI, but most are not in any way considered a performance car.
to keep up with a bone stock WRX of 2002 (should be putting down a 1/4 mile time around 14 seconds.)
look at how modified a TDI has to be to compete...
i understand the fun in making a slow car fast, and im all about it, i even participate. but lets be honest guys, they are almost impossible to class, and within a class, they simply wont keep up.
against a gasser with similar displacement, boost levels, and vehicle weight, our tdi's will ,simply, not keep up.
for a TDI to keep up, it must be bigger displacement, running higher boost, or lighter. realistically a little of each
if you compare the 1/4th mile times of most of the cars on this forum, they are on par with a bone stock to lightly modified RSX.
the RSX is a NA 2.0 of similar weight to a mk4 golf or jetta. coming in around 15 seconds. thats stock vs a modified TDI
if modifications are considered, the TDI is in a much higher class, and only then would it be beating the stock, or lightly modified RSX.
the RSX is only one consideration. sure there are plenty of gassers that cannot keep up with my TDI, but most are not in any way considered a performance car.
to keep up with a bone stock WRX of 2002 (should be putting down a 1/4 mile time around 14 seconds.)
look at how modified a TDI has to be to compete...
i understand the fun in making a slow car fast, and im all about it, i even participate. but lets be honest guys, they are almost impossible to class, and within a class, they simply wont keep up.
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Diesel pwr
Veteran Member
i say bring em in as you are....worry about the rules next year, get'em racing first.