www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > Classifieds/For Sale/Wanted > Vendor & GroupBuy items for sale

Vendor & GroupBuy items for sale VW TDI/Diesel related items for sale by vendors and Groupbuys. The only commercial posts to these forums are that of Vendors with TDI related equipment. To start a post, you must be a Registered Vendor. You may periodically post a note about products you may have for sale/services so long you indicate clearly you are from the company selling these products/services. The right to discontinue this practice & remove excessive posts remains with the operators of TDIClub. Please note there is also a webpage of TDI Vendors" Group-buys are permited if sponsored by a registered vendor.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 9th, 2014, 15:14   #16
INA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
TDI(s): 2.5 TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoSweden View Post
If you work close to fluiddampr, can you make them produce the heavy dampr Biochoppers got from them as a prototype? I think that is what we need!
Don't know the situation with biochoppers was as it has been sometime but if I recall they used a prototype 1.8T unit.
The Fluidampr unit weights 2.78 kg's =~ 6.1 lbs so compare that to your OEM crank pulley weight but again the goal here is not to compare weights but the upgrade to a viscous dampner.

If you guys want a specific TDI Fluidampr pulley then these are the guidelines:
- MOQ commitment of 50 units since no Vendor (not even us) sees a point in developing a specific dampner for the TDI engine.
- 8 weeks for development purposes
- 4 weeks testing
- 12 weeks for production

Which IMHO would be mute point considering the 1.8T unit works....
__________________
Issam N. Abed
iABED Industries
iABED Email
INA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2014, 17:36   #17
madcowintucson
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: arizona
TDI(s): golf
Default

Quote:
Not trying to disagree with you but this is false.
the first groove in the fluidampr from the mounting face on the crankshaft timing belt cog is 13.41mm. The 1.9 TDI pulley we have here measures 13.44mm. A difference of 0.03mm ...if you can machine a 0.03mm thick washer then my hat goes off to you.


Well, like I said, I bought a 1.8t unit p/n 551201 from usp motorsports. I can say without a doubt the pulley ribs are off by half a rib however many mm that turns out to be and the belt will hang off the edge of the tensioner roller by half to a full rib. Also the air conditioner pulley is offset, but because the distance is much greater between pulleys there is no wear issues. So unless fluidamper changed something maybe I got a bad unit haha. If you want I can email you my pictures I took. Also back when I did this in 2010 fluidamper could not tell me anything about mounting to a tdi, I had to just purchase one and give them the feedback as to mounting on an alh block, which I did. Although fluidamper did promise me it would work over any frequency and harmonics the tdi would produce and I have seen 0 issues so far. After 4 years and 100,000 miles I am happy. My engine is loud as hell, very loud, but sit in the car and it's smooth, as smooth as rubber mounts, dmf, and factory balancer. But you will need to space out the tensioner as the tensioner roller is the same width as the belt, maybe it's .03mm wider lol.
madcowintucson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2014, 20:10   #18
INA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
TDI(s): 2.5 TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowintucson View Post


Well, like I said, I bought a 1.8t unit p/n 551201 from usp motorsports. I can say without a doubt the pulley ribs are off by half a rib however many mm that turns out to be and the belt will hang off the edge of the tensioner roller by half to a full rib. Also the air conditioner pulley is offset, but because the distance is much greater between pulleys there is no wear issues. So unless fluidamper changed something maybe I got a bad unit haha. If you want I can email you my pictures I took. Also back when I did this in 2010 fluidamper could not tell me anything about mounting to a tdi, I had to just purchase one and give them the feedback as to mounting on an alh block, which I did. Although fluidamper did promise me it would work over any frequency and harmonics the tdi would produce and I have seen 0 issues so far. After 4 years and 100,000 miles I am happy. My engine is loud as hell, very loud, but sit in the car and it's smooth, as smooth as rubber mounts, dmf, and factory balancer. But you will need to space out the tensioner as the tensioner roller is the same width as the belt, maybe it's .03mm wider lol.
the measurement I gave you above is from a 1.8T unit that was on my desk. Do you have an oem part # for your pulley?
__________________
Issam N. Abed
iABED Industries
iABED Email
INA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 00:50   #19
madcowintucson
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: arizona
TDI(s): golf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by INA View Post
the measurement I gave you above is from a 1.8T unit that was on my desk. Do you have an oem part # for your pulley?

I would have to pull it out of my parts bin but it's the factory part because I Google how much a replacement would cost and verified it was the correct unit.
madcowintucson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 06:19   #20
fouckhest
Veteran Member
 
fouckhest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: g'vegs, sc
Fuel Economy: horrible!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by INA View Post

Which IMHO would be moot point considering the 1.8T unit works....

fixed that for you....

i would definitely be interested to try one of these on my car...actually seems like it would be a simple thing to do on back-to-back dyno runs to see if/what effect it has on torque curves
fouckhest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 08:50   #21
INA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
TDI(s): 2.5 TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowintucson View Post
I would have to pull it out of my parts bin but it's the factory part because I Google how much a replacement would cost and verified it was the correct unit.
What I would like to do is compare the Fluidampr 1.8T unit to:
- ALH
- PD
- CR 2.0 16V
and show the measurements from the cog hub to the valley of the first groove.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fouckhest View Post
fixed that for you....

i would definitely be interested to try one of these on my car...actually seems like it would be a simple thing to do on back-to-back dyno runs to see if/what effect it has on torque curves
Grammer ****s...
Send over a PM with your shipping address and Ill see what I can do about getting you a test unit.
__________________
Issam N. Abed
iABED Industries
iABED Email
INA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 10:24   #22
TheoSweden
Veteran Member
 
TheoSweden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
TDI(s): A3Q,A4Q
Default

See post 112 in the thread I linked to. There Biochoppers have a 9lbs unit, THATS the one I think should do some real difference. Sort one of them and I try it!

Theo

Quote:
Originally Posted by INA View Post
Don't know the situation with biochoppers was as it has been sometime but if I recall they used a prototype 1.8T unit.
The Fluidampr unit weights 2.78 kg's =~ 6.1 lbs so compare that to your OEM crank pulley weight but again the goal here is not to compare weights but the upgrade to a viscous dampner.

If you guys want a specific TDI Fluidampr pulley then these are the guidelines:
- MOQ commitment of 50 units since no Vendor (not even us) sees a point in developing a specific dampner for the TDI engine.
- 8 weeks for development purposes
- 4 weeks testing
- 12 weeks for production

Which IMHO would be mute point considering the 1.8T unit works....
__________________
TDI Project: VW Golf 1 - 83
Track/Ice racer: Audi A3 TDI Q - 02 ~280hp
Daily driver: Audi A4 TDI Q - 08 ~300hp
http://65.110.12.166/showthread.php?t=378371
TheoSweden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 10:53   #23
INA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
TDI(s): 2.5 TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoSweden View Post
See post 112 in the thread I linked to. There Biochoppers have a 9lbs unit, THATS the one I think should do some real difference. Sort one of them and I try it!
Theo
The biochoppers unit was a prototype modelled off an existing unit Fluidampr makes for another platform. Notice the Billet adaper machined up? That allows fitment of another application (probably chevy small block or 4G63 unit) onto the 1.9 TDI motor.

Again , Fluidampr can make a 20lb , even a 30 lb pulley for the TDI crowd but what is the point? Weight should be negligible here considering the advantage of moving into a Fluidampr unit to benefit from a Viscous Dampner vs an OEM unit.

You can either wait for a vendor here to front the capital to make a specific TDI Fluidampr unit and charge what he feels like charging OR use one that is available and does work for the TDI right now. If you want them to say "TDI" on them , I can request that on the next batch of 1.8T units that 20 units are set aside and printed "TDI Club" , "TDI" or "mywifeishot" on them....
__________________
Issam N. Abed
iABED Industries
iABED Email
INA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 11:17   #24
TheoSweden
Veteran Member
 
TheoSweden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
TDI(s): A3Q,A4Q
Default

No I didnt notice any billet adapter, to me that is alright as long as it does the job. From what I read the 1,8T damper is just great... In the higher RPMs. Yes thats fine, but that is the stock damper also.
The problem is in low revs. I dont know much about the theory but I beleve more mass is what we need. Just say no if im wrong.
__________________
TDI Project: VW Golf 1 - 83
Track/Ice racer: Audi A3 TDI Q - 02 ~280hp
Daily driver: Audi A4 TDI Q - 08 ~300hp
http://65.110.12.166/showthread.php?t=378371
TheoSweden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 11:43   #25
Ski in NC
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Fuel Economy: 48-52 typical
Default

The point of a crankshaft torsional damper is mainly to absorb some of the torsional vibrations in the crankshaft at higher rpms. The crank acts like a spring in the twisting sense, and has a natural frequency and some harmonics. If firing pulses match the natural frequency, the magnitude of the torsional vibrations can get so high as to damage the crank. The rpms where these torsional spikes occur are known as critical rpms. Engine builders know them, but rarely publish them. And we do not have an easy way to detect them, as the vibes are silent. On a stout 4cyl crank the critical is usually way above operating range. On a six, longer crank means lower crit rpm, so that's why most all straight sixes have them, and lots of 4's and v6 do not.

Fluid dampers are much more effective than bonded rubber mass type, so if you are building a hot engine, it's a good mod. Only caveat is that adding inertia (mass) to the front of the crank will probably lower the crit rpm, regardless of damping coefficient. But hard to discuss this if the crit rpm is not even known!!

As far as idle vibes, that's not what the fluid damper is designed to suppress, but it very well may. Depends on the various masses and damping coefficients of the unit.

You guys probably know all this stuff, but I don't feel like working and needed a break!!
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI 5sp Stock 201k mi
1981 Rabbit IDI 4sp Sold at 339k mi
1990 S-10 4.3 4wd 5sp 154k mi
1986 VW Pathfinder 1.6 45hp Marine 4700 Hrs
2001 Cummins 8.3 420hp Marine 1660Hrs..REFIT DONE!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 11:52   #26
Lofty86
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chippenham, UK
Fuel Economy: 52MPG
Default

Excuse my lack of knowing much about pulleys here..

Whats the difference between a Fluidampr and an Underdriver pulley please?

Just watched a Youtube clip of a 370Z with and without an underdriver pulley. It made ~6hp more on a 324hp motor.

I realise the benifits of dampening the vibrations, and know a fair amount about power gains/losses from vibrations from having Clasic Minis with there iron A-Series engines.
__________________
Sold :-( 2004 MkV Golf GT TDi, GT1749v (with VC internals), EGR Blanked, EGR Cooler Deleted, Mufflerectomy, and Decat. 200whp.
Now Merc W638. Mods to come! :-)

Last edited by Lofty86; January 10th, 2014 at 11:56.
Lofty86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 11:57   #27
Ski in NC
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Fuel Economy: 48-52 typical
Default

Underdriver crank pulley usually means it is a smaller diameter than stock. So belt driven accessories spin slower than stock for the same engine rpm. Slower spin means less drag (especially water pump).
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI 5sp Stock 201k mi
1981 Rabbit IDI 4sp Sold at 339k mi
1990 S-10 4.3 4wd 5sp 154k mi
1986 VW Pathfinder 1.6 45hp Marine 4700 Hrs
2001 Cummins 8.3 420hp Marine 1660Hrs..REFIT DONE!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 12:05   #28
Lofty86
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chippenham, UK
Fuel Economy: 52MPG
Default

Nice one. Thanks.

This was a good watch for those that dont know..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDr7Kwgo-Jw

Its just explaining the stock damper but still explains well.
__________________
Sold :-( 2004 MkV Golf GT TDi, GT1749v (with VC internals), EGR Blanked, EGR Cooler Deleted, Mufflerectomy, and Decat. 200whp.
Now Merc W638. Mods to come! :-)

Last edited by Lofty86; January 10th, 2014 at 12:09.
Lofty86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 12:21   #29
robnitro
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NYC area, NY
Default

No serp driven water pump in TDI... stupid tbelt hehe..

Anyway underdrive helps high revving motors... which we don't have.
robnitro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2014, 12:48   #30
INA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
TDI(s): 2.5 TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoSweden View Post
No I didnt notice any billet adapter, to me that is alright as long as it does the job. From what I read the 1,8T damper is just great... In the higher RPMs. Yes thats fine, but that is the stock damper also.
The problem is in low revs. I dont know much about the theory but I beleve more mass is what we need. Just say no if im wrong.
Wrong
Not sure how many times I need to repeat this but:
Viscous Dampner vs OEM Rubber Dampening ring.Read this to understand the difference.
http://www.fluidampr.com/what/
comparing a part modified from a different application to a part made for a VERY SIMILAR application is a chalk vs cheese comparison and again I am not trying to sell you anything here . I am simply trying to change your thought process / deductive reasoning. You want a heavier crank pulley then buy the 4G63 unit , modify it like the above mentioned did and use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lofty86 View Post

Excuse my lack of knowing much about pulleys here..

Whats the difference between a Fluidampr and an Underdriver pulley please?.
That is the issue with the industry as a whole. I have said this before on countless other boards and I will repeat it here for members of TDIClub.com. When you are a manufacturer in the industry (whether Subaru , Ford, or whatever) and you get to a point where you buy your own CNC machines (HAAS , Mori-Seiki ,etc) , unless you are extremely good at what you do and your machines are booked 24/7/365 then you are going to follow what everyone else has followed for the last 10?20? Years which is machining parts under $100 and blowing smoke up customers asses to make them believe you have reinvented the wheel.

Why do companies sell under drive pulleys? 3 reasons:
1. Alot of V8 guys from years ago believed in them. They believed dropping a 22lb crank pulley for a T6061 2 lb crank pulley somehow made 4-6hp across your powerband which is true if your crank pulley had NO dampening ring. Every single Volkswagen serpentine motor which produces remotely over 130hp has a crankshaft pulley with a dampening ring . Look @ the 1.8 8V G60 which has an INDEPENDENT dampening ring.
2. CHEAP TO MACHINE - It takes literally no effort to turn a 4" bar of T6061 into a crankshaft pulley. Maybe $30-$35 tops.
3. MARKETING AND SALES - you take that $30-$35 part and you turn into "$99" and sell it like it is the best thing since slice bread promising gains of 5-6hp across the entire powerband when you are actually hurting your motor than helping.

Here is he problem and how it applies to your modern day Volkswagen. Think of the crankshaft assembly as being balanced with the flywheel and crankshaft pulley how every modern day motor SHOULD be balanced. On one end you have a Dual Mass flywheel handling the harmonics from your 2/3 shaft Gearbox (02J vs 02M/02Q) and on the other end you have a dampening ring.

Ok so you remove the dual mass flywheel and convert to a single mass unit and on top of that you request double the power from the motor which was designed as a system for your OEM crank pulley. Where do you expect those harmonics to some how go?

To add insult to injury companies then go and sell you a billet crankshaft pulley without any form of dampening ring and now your engine harmonics have no where to go. Where does that energy now go?
- Bearings
- wrist pin bushing
etc...

Yes yes I know countless people run the OEM crank pulley and there are a few people running a billet crankshaft pulley but you would never see me ever recommend a billet crank pulley.
We tested the VR6 Fluidampr unit on a MKV R32 DSG vehicle (no flywheel conversion) and GAINED 26whp . When I checked the part # of the OEM R32 crankshaft pulley , it is the exact same part # as the 2.8 24V GLI crank pulley.

You can lighten your accessories pulleys going from steel to aluminum because you guessed it aluminum is lighter but leave the crank alone or run a viscous dampner.
__________________
Issam N. Abed
iABED Industries
iABED Email
INA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Whitbread Performance Innovations. Product and service offerings Whitbread Vendor & GroupBuy items for sale 94 July 12th, 2017 00:37
US TDI offerings chart greengeeker TDI 101 29 February 3rd, 2015 11:20
TDI offerings in North America versus TDI offering everywhere else mickey VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 4 February 26th, 2001 01:22


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18653 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 141.37 Kb. compressed to 119.55 Kb. by saving 21.82 Kb. (15.43%)]