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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old October 22nd, 2013, 21:01   #46
RacerTodd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbodude1 View Post
Any idea what kind of torque a LUK will hold? My 99.5 TDI has 280K and the clutch is starting to get tired. Changing the turbo next week to a VNT 17 so that may finish off the clutch. Would be nice to find a replacement that can go as far as the stock clutch has been.
I'm told that LUK doesn't publish official torque ratings. The most info you can get out of them is how many pounds of clamping force a pressure plate has. A few people have done the math to convert that into a rough estimate of torque rating.

I believe that it is the OE LUK clutch that is thought to be good for 270 lb/ft, with the RepSet version (the 17-050 part number) somewhat less. This was something I read here on the ages ago, so I'm not 100% sure of the number.

Before I moved up to larger injectors in 2011, I asked one of the reputable online vendors about the torque rating of the RepSet clutch. It was their opinion that it was OK for a car with mild upgrades - maybe 200-210 lb/ft or so. I was going to be well under that, so I figured the clutch would be able to handle it. I've got 175K on my 17-050 clutch so far.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 17:12   #47
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I am considering this 17-050 clutch for my ALH. My mods are:

-11mm Pump
-PP502s
-Future: Malone Stage 1.5 and 3 with Flashzilla

BoraParts said they tested these clutches and it held 273 lb ft. (http://shopping.boraparts.com/produc...roducts_id=492)

My thinking: Malone Stage 3 is 242 ft lb according to their website. If this Luk DMF kit slips on Stage 3 I can always go back to Stage 1.5. This DMF will be a better daily driver than say a SBC Stage 2 Daily. I have no plans to go bigger than stock turbo and my current pump and nozzles.

Anyone agree with my logic?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 21:23   #48
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I think your logic works and although many folks here won't consider a DMF the LUK seems to have a pretty solid reputation over the Sachs setup.

I just installed a 17-050 in my 01 Golf this past weekend and the driveability is amazing. My planned mods are pretty much identical to yours and and I don't have any concerns about the LUK holding the torque. That said, I have no real experience or proof that it will hold. I do have experience with the Sachs G60/VR6 (not the silent disk) in my 98 Jetta and can tell you that mine is very noisy and drives very different than the DMF. Thumbs down on driveability.

I'm sure the silent South Bend and Sachs disks are good but I think I paid about $240 for the LUK DMF/pressure plate/disk. I'm feeling pretty good about the purchase right now.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 21:29   #49
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Thanks for the reply. I ordered mine tonight for the $240 price also. At the end of the day this seems like a better purchase for stock turbo cars.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 09:57   #50
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I got one set for my slipping clutch BEW. Will this also work (will it bolt) in a 5spd BRM?
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Old December 6th, 2013, 14:48   #51
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Originally Posted by jimbote View Post
yes it will fit without issue


Jim you're killin' me! I ordered the complete clutch kit & my mechanic went to install it today & advised that it was the wrong clutch & would not fit.

Oh well, you live you learn.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 14:50   #52
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I can return the clutch but if anyone is interested in purchasing it from me I will sell it for what I paid for it.

Let me know.

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Old December 7th, 2013, 05:21   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bspeedracerb View Post
Jim you're killin' me! I ordered the complete clutch kit & my mechanic went to install it today & advised that it was the wrong clutch & would not fit.

Oh well, you live you learn.
if your car is a 02J mkiv the LUK clutch/flywheel kit will work 100% ...there is zero difference between the gasser mkiv five speed config and the diesel mkiv five speed config .... maybe your mechanic is trying to cut corners and use your stock flywheel with the LUK clutch and pressure plate ? ... or he may have just given it a quick look and decided it because it looks different (DMF vs SMF) it wouldn't work.... if you want your mechanic to give me a call pm me for my number
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Old December 7th, 2013, 05:30   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbote View Post
if your car is a 02J mkiv the LUK clutch/flywheel kit will work 100% ...there is zero difference between the gasser mkiv five speed config and the diesel mkiv five speed config .... maybe your mechanic is trying to cut corners and use your stock flywheel with the LUK clutch and pressure plate ? ... or he may have just given it a quick look and decided it because it looks different (DMF vs SMF) it wouldn't work.... if you want your mechanic to give me a call pm me for my number
We hear this a lot: Mechanics who aren't very familiar with VW clutch/flywheel setups will look at a LUK or an SMF replacement and assume it won't fit because it's not the same as what came out of the car. As Jim said, this kit will fit in any 4 cylinder VW with an 02J transmission. I think it's a great replacement for a stock or chipped only BRM. Very smooth and quiet.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 08:02   #55
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Well, I have a Sachs Silent Kit (TDI friction disk with VR6 pressure plate) with a balanced 22 lbs SMF waiting to go into my car next week -- $370 from the vendor I purchased from.

Saw this screaming deal -- LUK 17-050 rep set for $238 -- and couldn't help myself...Just ordered.

By all accounts, both are very similar in terms of drivability and according to Boraparts hold about the same torque.

I figured I can resell either without taking too much of a hit.

So I have 4 days to decide which to install. Now I'm leaning towards LUK and getting about $100 back in my pocket by reselling the Sachs (money to put toward a tune???). I guess there's some comfort in the simplicity of a SMF, as well as a birdie telling me $238 is too good to be true and maybe it's a knock-off?

Somebody sway me! No plans to go beyond mild tune and definitely not going to pay for a big turbo.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 09:09   #56
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Don't know what you have for a tune but keep in mind that the 17-050 kit doesn't hold as much torque as the setup that was in the '99.5 A4s. Nozzles and a tune is a reasonable limit.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 09:50   #57
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Always interesting to see how we "shop" ... We EBay our way down to the bottom dollar, yet use our the regular retailers to source advice. The traditional supplier ends up providing the service without the getting to make a couple bucks off the part. We also use the retailer to get those finicky bits like the clips and stretch bolts that make up the job. We might even go as far as head to the Dealer to track down something in a pinch.
I noted above that Bora parts was asked for advice, then looked at the Bora Link to see the clutch was listed at $429 (on sale), almost $200 over the EBay price.
Don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty next guy using the internet to source my parts (Rock Auto often gets my attention for my other vehicles... I'm mean a brand new Bosch Fuel pump assembly for $170 vs Dealer for $800... I might try to have ethical standards but yikes, you have to draw the line someplace ;-).
Personally, I try to buy from my regular supplier (IDP, Bora, Dieselgeek and so on), I keep an eye on their sites to watch for sales but try to show some sort of loyalty. Then again.... if your talking $200 in savings over a so called sale price.... there better be some amazing service !
Cheers
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(PS... I have no shares in any of the retailers mentioned above ;-)
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Old December 7th, 2013, 09:59   #58
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What's a rep set? Are there different versions of this luk clutch?
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Old December 7th, 2013, 10:09   #59
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I think rep is for replacement. There are different versions of this clutch, at least two: the ones that came in '99.5 VWs and this one. Perform similarly, but the current replacement doesn't seem to hold as much power. Ask me how I know. :-)

And all retailers have trouble with people dumping product on Amazon and eBay. We've dropped the price on these kits significantly (LUK DMF flywheels are another example) but still can't compete with the price here. When we confront suppliers they shrug and say they don't know what's going on. Not sure I believe it. No hard feelings, it's the nature of the beast these days.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 10:16   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by towforce View Post
Always interesting to see how we "shop" ... We EBay our way down to the bottom dollar, yet use our the regular retailers to source advice. The traditional supplier ends up providing the service without the getting to make a couple bucks off the part. We also use the retailer to get those finicky bits like the clips and stretch bolts that make up the job. We might even go as far as head to the Dealer to track down something in a pinch.
I noted above that Bora parts was asked for advice, then looked at the Bora Link to see the clutch was listed at $429 (on sale), almost $200 over the EBay price.
Don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty next guy using the internet to source my parts (Rock Auto often gets my attention for my other vehicles... I'm mean a brand new Bosch Fuel pump assembly for $170 vs Dealer for $800... I might try to have ethical standards but yikes, you have to draw the line someplace ;-).
Personally, I try to buy from my regular supplier (IDP, Bora, Dieselgeek and so on), I keep an eye on their sites to watch for sales but try to show some sort of loyalty. Then again.... if your talking $200 in savings over a so called sale price.... there better be some amazing service !
Cheers
Martin
(PS... I have no shares in any of the retailers mentioned above ;-)
I have spent hundreds, thousands at some, supporting Boraparts, TDIparts (id parts), metalman, and dieselgeek. Their prices are usually close to the best I find, sometimes 5-10% higher than MJM or some other clearing house, but I go with the trusted source with better service. BTW, the Sachs kit I have on hand that I am debating against the LUK is from Boraparts.

But with my current income, no amount of loyalty can make me pass up $100-150 discount.

And I am not seeking out a vendor's advice on which one to install, anyone who has experience with either or both the silent sachs and LUK 17-050...

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
What's a rep set? Are there different versions of this luk clutch?
My understanding is that there are some small differences between the LUK kit that was in the early A4s and this "17-050 rep kit," that I *think* is the same as what dieselgeek, bora, etc are selling. Dieselgeek outlines them on his site and describes them as improvements upon the LUK that came with the early TDIs. Jim claims the LUK kit sold now bolted together holds MORE toque than the setup in the 99.5 A4, but Peter above says it holds less. Maybe I am missing something and we're not talking about the same kit.

Either way, there seems to be agreement that both the Sachs silent and LUK 17-050 both hold in the neighborhood of 270 lb/ft and are the smoothest, quietest options available for O2J TDI clutch replacement. Since both hold about the same, I would respond to Peter that if this is true, torque holding is not a factor in my decision on which to install.

Peter, do you have any experience suggesting that in the real world, the Sachs silent kit will hold more than the LUK?
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Last edited by eb2143; December 7th, 2013 at 10:18.
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