2004 VW Jetta TDI Cold Weather Starting Problems

2004 VW Jetta TDI Cold Weather Starting Problems
I am having problems with my 2004 VW Jetta TDI starting in slightly cold weather and severe cold weather.

I have been having to turn the key partially a few times to let the glow plugs warm up. IF it is really cold out (usually below zero) I have to do this about a dozen times before my car starts. Sometimes it takes me a half hour to get the car started. (BTW I am getting about 35-37 mpg)

When I do get the car started, it start ups great and then idles down for a few moments and then idles up (not sure if idle is the correct word for it) and runs like it should. IF the car is warm it starts like a dream- there are no problems as well as in warm weather.

Sometimes when I take off in the car it will take off in slow motion and barely go. If I step off of the accelerator and then press down again it will take off as it normally should.

We have checked the glow plugs, changed the oil, air, and fuel filters, and changed the oil recently. All those are working fine.

I took the car into the shop and they told me it was the cam shaft censor. I had them replace that and the service tech told me the timing, glow plugs, and the timing belt were great and no problems there. I got the car back and the next day it was doing the same things.

I have taken the car back and they are now trying to tell me they "think" the timing belt has been stretched and it needs to be replaced. They have no evidence to support this idea- (The check engine light has never been on.)

Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be going on? I am not willing to drop about 1000.00 on top of 400.00 to fix what they "think" is the problem with out a viable reason behind it.

Any information would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

A few things off the top of my head, check the function of the coolant temp sensor. Check to make sure the timing is somewhat advanced. Make sure the battery is load tested and cold weather worthy. You can look up all these and more problems and fixes on this site but I'd say whatever you do, don't shell out $1000.00 on a wild goose chase! How much do you trust this mechanic and does he have experience with these beasties? Good luck!

How many miles are on the car?

While the belt does stretch, it usually will not stretch so far that the electronics in the PD cannot still correct for the changes.

I have read of a couple of others on here that had the same problem, but never heard of the resolution.

So I would really like to hear how your story ends, please. Please ask whoever you take it to to record the as-found timing between the cam and the crankshaft.

I have wondered if the timing belt was off one tooth on the PD, if the result would be what you are seeing. While if this was the case it could be resolved just by taking the timing belt off and replacing it, it is usual to do a very complete TB job when you get in that far.

If you take it to a mechanic recommended here on the site, you can get a good diagnosis and repair.

Miles

How many miles on the car?

Trusted mechanics
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044

For something like this it would be worth it to me to drive 5 or 6 hours and spend the night in a motel, if required, in order to get a good technician.

There may be others, but I would probably take it to one of the two listed below.

JasonTDI Repair
Madison WI
http://jasontdi.com

or
Car-Doc Automotive
2277 Administration Dr
Saint Louis, MO 63146
(314) 991-2277, Oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
Oilhammer's personal website : www.oilhammer.com
MAP

DanG

My car has about 79,000 miles on it and I know that the battery is still good.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

Ok- So I talked with the service tech and he is now trying to tell me that the cam shaft to the crankshaft has something wrong and that is why they have to change the timing belt. Since I took it back into the shop the service engine light is on (never has it been on while in my possession).

Codes requested- Original codes from 02/26/2008 (1st trip to shop)

004.01 Check Event Memory

Function Successfully performed 2 trouble code detected?

16725 P0341 000
Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor=> sensor -G40
Implausible signal
sporadic

19464 P3008 000
Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -G40-
Singnal outside tolerance
sporadic


Here are the codes from 3/10/2008 (the 2nd time in and now with a check engine light that came on in their presence)

004.01 Check Event Memory

Function successfully performed
1 trouble code detected?

16725 P0341 000
Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor=> sensor -G40
Implausible signal

This is what I have so far........ Does anyone have any suggestions now?

Gretch,
I think that you need to get it to one of the techs above (or another tech recommended by this forum).
I do think that it is plausible that the timing of the cam to the crank is off one tooth.
I would not take it to a dealer, if I had the option.
As well as yours is running, it sounds as if you have the option.
Sorry for the bad news.
I would still like to hear the final findings.
DanG

With any alternative, do not take the car to a stealership's no-service department. Try your listed local gurus for someone that will make a roadtrip. Yeah, it might cost but NOTHING like what the stealership will charge - and the problem will be diagnosed and fixed by someone with care and experience. Gurus run on reputation only!

Ok-

They have spent hours on my car looking for what the problem is.

Currently, they are telling me my timing is off one tooth from the cam to the crank shaft. They are fixing the timing for free and then going to try and start the car tomorrow to see if there is any better cold starting results. I am refusing to let them change the timing belt.

After that I am taking my car to my old mechanic a couple hours away and renting a car for the weekend. I will keep everyone posted on what my dearly trusted mechanic says about my TDI when I find out more.

I will also say this- where I have taken my car has been wonderful with past repairs. They were reasonably priced (trust me I check!) and wonderful to work with. This time it has been a nightmare and I have done more than my share of homework. They have disappointed me and that is why I am getting my money back and going elsewhere.
(I am getting the money back for the previous repair of replacing the cam sensor which was 408 something.)

Thanks for everyone's help and I will keep you all posted on what my findings are.

Same old story

Here we go again.

So I did have the timing adjusted and the crankshaft etc. They said it was off one tooth and they fixed that but did not replace the timing belt. I really haven't had any cold days to test the starting problem out since the timing adjustment. (I wasn't willing to replace the timing belt unless I knew it was actually the problem.)

I did take my car to my old mechanic whom checked everything out and it checked out fine after the first place did the timing adjustment.

We just had a few days of severe temperature changes here in Iowa. I had stayed home the past few days (yeah sick vacation) and did not drive my car for two days. This morning I went to start it and it did the same old thing AGAIN. It did not want to start, no check engine light, and acted the same as I had described previously. I highly doubt it is the timing since that was just adjusted/fixed.

So- here I am back to the drawing board. Any new suggestions?

No, the same old proven suggestion. GET IN TOUCH WITH ONE OF THE TRUSTED TDI GURUS THAT REALLY KNOWS THESE ENGINES. You will get it fixed right for less$$. Other than the temp sensor previously mentioned as a DIY thing, its time to get it diagnosed properly. There are hardly any generic shops and rarely a VW dealership that has a shop that cares/knows enough about these to get it done right. Sad, but seems to be the way it is.

Hey, I am having the excact problem, have you found a solution? I nearly spent over 1 grand trying to fix this.

Are you getting the same codes, too?

We have learned since the last reply, that you can read the crank/cam timing on VCDS, for PD's, in measuring block 4 field 4. The spec is usually given as -3 to +3, but some folks have cured hard starting by ensuring their cam timing is on the positive side of zero.

Dan

I haven't gone down the code route yet, well I don't think anyway.
My mechanic said he advanced the fuel timing to help it, but it made it worse and as a result it's using more diesel.
Can the timing be changed through vag?
At this stage it's either up to me to fix this or visit a be garage and spend big money that I don't have

Oh and my engine is a non of version with 210.000km on it now.

the timing can be tweaked by rotating the IP slightly with the aid of vag. if the mechanical timing is off, you're going to have problems

looks like its to do with the compression, today was a warmer day out, and after 9 hours i turned the car on and it nearly started properly.
and i got a quote of 3 grand euro to change the engine or as my own choice, recondition it.

I'm not clear, have you gotten this to a trusted mechanic yet or not?

If you're still at the dealership...you're just going to keep forking out money without getting a fix.

Could you get the timing graphs from your mechanic and post them here? if he doesn't know how to get those, he doesn't know how to work on your car.

2004 Cold Weather Problems

Had the same problem. After visiting the mechanic a few times he added a diesel additive. It solved the problem.
Fuel gelling is the most likely cause. Get a diesel fuel additive such as Power Service Diesel Fuel Additive to prevent fuel gelling, boost cetane for faster cold weather starts, and clean injectors.
It worked great for me. The mechanic also said his dad, a trucker, would add some kerosene to his diesel truck in the winter and it would do the same thing, that is, help it start better in cold weather. (It's cheaper, but for $10 a bottle for the additive, I can't complain) I can't verify the kerosene and I'm not an expert on adding kerosene so just try the diesel additive. I have NO problem with cold weather starts any more.

I have a 2004 TDI Jetta with 100K and a 2004 TDI Jetta with 72K.