Help ! Injector Pump Seal Leaks

Are you sure you got the end of the QA shaft in the hole in the collar?

KLXD said:

Are you sure you got the end of the QA shaft in the hole in the collar?

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It feels like it. I have lined it up and when I drop it in it feels like it is seating. Other than feel, I don't know any other way to know if it is in the hole.

Did you prime it with a vacuum pump?

Are you getting fuel when you loosen the injector lines?

Tony

I did try to force diesel into the lines with a syringe from the lines leading from the fuel filter to the injection pump. I assume when you are asking about fuel in the injection line you are talking about the small hoses going from injector to injector? Should I be checking those as I am turning the engine over? I did check one of them after attemting to cranking the car but I did not really have much fuel in the line when I pulled it off.

clannewton, no. Have you read up on how to prime the injection pump?

Basically, you use a vacuum pump on the fuel return, to suck fuel into the pump. Remember this is a suction fuel system; there is no fuel pump in the tank! After the pump is primed, you need to slightly loosen the injector high pressure lines on top of the injectors. While they are loose, crank the engine. You should be able to see fuel squirting out from the loosened nuts. It may also be helpful to wrap a rag around the loosened injector lines.

Post back what you find.

Tony

I was a little confused about where to hook up the vacuum pump. I will give this a try. Thanks

The link will not work for me??

TonyJetta said:

Pic server is back up!

Here's beowulf's reseal how-to.

Tony

Click to expand...

I can not get the link to work,When i click on the link I get this message
You must be a registered user to view images!

To register click on the REGISTER button in the menu above. I am a registered user and I am signed in with my username? What's the problem? This link would be useful because my injection pump has begun to leak...

Use your tdiclub login to register on the pic server...it's separate from the forums server.

Tony

clannewton said:

I was a little confused about where to hook up the vacuum pump. I will give this a try. Thanks

Click to expand...

I have also had very good luck with a $50 electric pump installed between my filter and the injector pump. I found priming to be an absolute breeze when I use this. It forces fuel from the tank to the intake on the injector pump. This method has given me nearly 100% first-crank success.

I did not have any luck at all pumping from the return line; in fact I can't see any fuel coming out of my return line at all, ever, which makes me thing I might have a blockage. Previous owner ran grease so for all I know there's a french fry in there. =P

Edit: I just did my head pump seals and while I was there I pulled off the banjo nut and fuel return bolt. There's a check-valve in there; mine was stuck shut. I popped it free by pressing it hard with a blunt tool, cleaned it up, and reinstalled. Fuel return now works perfectly.

Anyone have what the actual torque specs and sequence for re-tightening the T30 and security bolt are?

Reason I ask is I tightened them all in a criss-cross fashion only "snug" but not tight as they were not that difficult to remove in the first place. Well after a week, of local weather temps being around 0C it dropped drastically to -25C and first start of the day caused the upper seal to POUR fuel out badly! I tightened them all up a little more and it was fine with no leaks till the next mornings start at -25C (again!) and a semi decent leak was still present

I am sure the seal is installed correctly and the installation was super clean. Is the cold causing me some weird issues maybe? Should I have put some blue threadlocker on the bolts maybe?

I looked through the only VE pump document I have; no torque values listed.

When I resealed my pump, I just tightened it hand tight. No leaks 14k miles later.

Others may have some torque values for you.

Tony

Re-Seal Thanks

This is just a simple "Thank You" to TonyJetta and all the other contributors to this thread.

I had a classic IP seal leak which I only discovered when the three way coolant hose puked. It was only through the information and encouragement found here that I attempted to reseal the pump in my '97 Passat (200,000 miles). The job was made possible by the efforts of those who have gone before and taken the time to document their successes and failures.

'Thank you' doesn't begin to tell the whole story but it's all I've got to offer.

This forum has saved me countless hours and dollars; from door handles to exhaust systems, insturment clusters to timing belts, the support here is remarkable. So to all you contributors a huge Thanks!

TonyJetta said:

I looked through the only VE pump document I have; no torque values listed.

When I resealed my pump, I just tightened it hand tight. No leaks 14k miles later.

Others may have some torque values for you.

Tony

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Okay maybe then I have over-tighened the bolts then So maybe I should loosen them and then re-tighten them hand tight as opposed to using the 1/4" ratchet and socket. I am wondering now if I could have damaged the seals I recently just replaced (both upper/lower)?

SheeB said:

Okay maybe then I have over-tighened the bolts then So maybe I should loosen them and then re-tighten them hand tight as opposed to using the 1/4" ratchet and socket. I am wondering now if I could have damaged the seals I recently just replaced (both upper/lower)?

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It's possible the top cover is warped. I doubt it, but it's possible.

I would see if drivbiwire or another knowledgeable expert has any input.

Tony

I definitely did not wrench them on super tight, maybe 1/2-1 turn past hand tight I would guess. The lower seal was the original culprit of leaking but I replaced both as I figured I was in there anyways.

Distributor O-ring

About one year ago I attempted dieselgeek's o-ring replacement procedure. Having done the QA seal replacement successfully in the past, I felt pretty good about tackling this one.

I followed the instructions to the dot and everything seemed to be going smoothly. BUT, at the very end, as I was tightening the hex bolts back up, I perhaps over-tightened them a bit and heard a loud *CLUNK* coming from the inside of the pump. I just knew the pump was done for.

But I don't understand what could have happened. How can over-tightening the head cause any damage (other than perhaps stripping the aluminum body threads)? Is there a torque spec for these bolts? I didn't even think I had them that tight (hand-tight is, after all, somewhat subjective).

I ended up getting a used pump in replacement, which now, a year later, is leaking diesel. I'm comfortable enough with the procedure to swap the ring myself, but I have no idea what went wrong last year and don't want to make the same mistake. That *CLUNK* is still a haunting memory...

So is there a torque spec that I was not aware of? Has anybody had a similar experience?

Maybe you got the head cocked by tightening one side too much and snapped the plunger.

Limp Mode

Hi Tony
Some people mention to change the vacuum hose with hose from McMaster-carr .
Would you know the hose # from McMaster-carr ?
All the of my hose s are looking pretty bad , I'll like to change them
Thank you Jean-L

JEAN-L said:

Hi Tony
Some people mention to change the vacuum hose with hose from McMaster-carr .
Would you know the hose # from McMaster-carr ?
All the of my hose s are looking pretty bad , I'll like to change them
Thank you Jean-L

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See here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1470508#post1470508

The part number links in the post will take you to McMaster.

Make sure to change the hose in the ECU at the same time!

I bought mine from http://hosetechniques.com/ All 3mm. Don't use >3.5mm. It's too big and will leak.

Tony

Good luck, my pump started leaking last year and we patched it together sevral times. However, I ended up having to replace the pump. If its leaking internally, then it has to be replaced. For me, it was 1800 w/labor.

96 Passat TDI-present
78 Raddit Diesel -past
?' dasher Diesel-past

post#144 by TonyJetta is the only working link in this thread that gets you to beowulf's pdf on how to replace the injection pump seals. I know because I tried them all. Moderator, is there a way that this link can be posted at the top of the thread for others, and then put the rest of this thread as experience with the injection pump. (There is a lot of useful experience there,some scare me.) Another useful how to is just pictures.
to get there, click photos in the blue stripe, click technical items, click PDF "how to", on page 2 find cerickson. I used his JBWELD blob method and did my seals without vag.com. My car ran the exact way it did before I started the seal replacement, it just didn't leak any more (YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY). There are actually 4 ways to mark the pump before dis-assembly. 1.Sharpie (permanent black marker) on the shelf passengers side, make sure you don't have any silver showing when you put it back together. 2.Scratch awl, everywhere especially the corners (sometimes diesel erases the sharpie).3. You can use permanent marker everywhere, but, see above. 4.The JB WELD on the 4 corners is my favorite, then I lined the edges of the JB WELD with a red sharpie, Giving you the ability to precisely re-align the adjustment position to where it was. I let the JB WELD set over night before attempting this, used the dowel pop (cerickson) after removing all of the bolts. If your JB WELD doesn't break clean make sure the shards don't get into the pump. MAKE SURE NOTHING GETS INTO THE PUMP!! YOU SHOULD REALLY BE AT OPERATING ROOM STATUS BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS...
at the NORCAL GTG 3-27-10 someone was kind enough the run the vag.com on my car, I was spot on at 3.2 to 3.4 bobbing.I can't boast that there wasn't any change because I didn't get a pre-reading. This post is a result of over 40 hours of research on TDICLUB.COM,and then the experience of actually doing it. I can't put a price on all of the information that all of you have provided here. THANKS!

After thought, when you break a ceramic mug handle off you can pretty much put it back together and sometimes not even see where it broke, or anything plastic is the same way. That is what I call a foot print, (only one way that it can go back together) That was my premise for attempting the seal replacement without vag.com using the JB WELD method.

There is no guarantee here, if you have access to vag.com use it. If you have really big balls, confidence, and some mechanical ability and the funds to buy a good used pump if it fails you might try it. The scarrist part for me was getting the pin back into the hole on that donut. AS YOU HAVE READ EARLIER IN THIS POST, THE WORST CASE IS A RUN ON ENGINE THAT YOU CAN'T STOP AND BURNS UP. Make sure your reference marks are spot on.

Thanks Tony!!!
This post save the day for me.
Couldn't get my golf tdi started till I did the
loosing the nuts on the injector lines step!
Then bled the air out while cranking the engine till fuel leaked out and
re-tightening the nuts and trying again!
Started up pretty quick after that!
Thanks again!!!!

TonyJetta said:

clannewton, no. Have you read up on how to prime the injection pump?

Basically, you use a vacuum pump on the fuel return, to suck fuel into the pump. Remember this is a suction fuel system; there is no fuel pump in the tank! After the pump is primed, you need to slightly loosen the injector high pressure lines on top of the injectors. While they are loose, crank the engine. You should be able to see fuel squirting out from the loosened nuts. It may also be helpful to wrap a rag around the loosened injector lines.

Post back what you find.

Tony

Click to expand...

Bill, glad to hear you got the car going.

You are welcome! Sharing information is what the club is all about.

Joe,
Have you PM'd any moderators?

Tony

beowulf's links to all things pump related are on his private server. Unfortunately it spends much of its life down. The how to pdf file for how to assemble to pump head after everything came apart is something I put together and is also in my sig.
Ray

I'm about to try to replace my QA seals. This forum has been a great tool for research. Thanks to all the gurus and others.

The seal kit came in the mail yesterday, I've got all my tools together and I'm going to Vag-com to car this morning (it's running well and I want to get baseline data so I can reset the IQ to the same number). Does the engine need to be dead-cold before I work on it? IE- After getting it to operating temp for the Vag-Com, Do I have to wait until tomorrow morning to start on the seals, or can I dive in this afternoon when the engine is cool, but not dead-cold?

The engine temp is more an issue for the mechanic.

TonyJetta said:

The engine temp is more an issue for the mechanic.

Click to expand...

X2.

Hot fuel can be quite uncomfortable, even with gloves.

Especially if you are allergic to most petroleum products! So, gloves are must for me. The temp is not so much an issue until it gets way too hot to handle.