Friends don't let friends drive their car

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
So, let a buddy of mine take the car for a drive.

Long story short the car wasn't at NOT and he stood on the throttle at 1,300 rpms. The turbo overboosted at whch point he still didn't remove his foot from the go pedal and the turbo surged then completely stalled starving the motor for air and the engine died.


Brought it home pulled the glow plugs cranked it over, nothing came out. did a compression test 450 across all four holes. Yanked the head piston protrusion was all the same and nothing looked bad.

Toss it back together and the car does this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-ZwZ56or8

So I take the video, rip it back apart AGAIN to find the turbo is pissed. Spins rough and the exhaust seal (or whatever the metal piece is that's right inside the chra) on it actually dragging on the washer that is behind the turbine *sigh*

The white smoke was a mixture of oil and the turbo not giving requested boost under no load cause it couldn't spool up.

Slapped another turbo on it and the problem has been reduced about 80 percent. However, it will still blow some white smoke (not blue) and it smells like raw diesel no oil tinge to it.

Probably going to have to rip it back apart again :(
 
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VWDAVID

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Location
tdi land
TDI
02 golf tdi
Does it idle smooth? How old are the injectors? The missfire thing is strange thats either timing related or fuel nothing to do with turbo.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
yeah idles smooth and doesn't smoke at idle IQ is around 4. It doesn't chug, the injectors are practically brand new and I just had them cleaned and the balanced checked on them. They tested out just fine.

I'm not really sure what it has to do with tbh thus I posted it up. The turbo was fubared though and needed replaced.

If it's fuel the only thing it could be would be the IP or the injectors. Not sure how you test an IP though lol.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
It doesn't look like it smokes at low rpm, check measuring block 4 I think and see if the timing advance is following requested.

Its probably not getting enough air at higher RPM? Wouldn't that give you black smoke?

Jon
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
That's what I thought. That's why I'm so confused by this white smoke! Car is in the shop for paint.

I'll check measuring block 4 when it come out.
 

loudspl

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Location
Osakis, Minnesota
TDI
02 ASV w/ 02J
When I lunched a turbo there was oil in the intercooler and it had that white smoke for a while since I didn't completely clean the plumbing before putting on the new turbo...

worth a check if it wasn't done already
 

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
I'ce had a seal go out and there was a lot of oil in the converter and exhaust. It took quite a bit of driving to get it to stop smoking.
 

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Horrible luck, gotta be careful with those race tunes though letting folks who aren't knowledgable of the quirks getting behind the controls.
 

85_305

Banned
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Location
Buffalo NY/FT Bragg, NC
TDI
1999.5 Jetta 5spd
Horrible luck, gotta be careful with those race tunes though letting folks who aren't knowledgable of the quirks getting behind the controls.
1000% agree with this. People really dont understand these cars, especially when modded. I let my buddy drive my car once while I was driving my truck somewhere, and I told him to go easy on it and dont f* around, I think there's a boost leak.


10 minutes into his drive, my phone vibrates; I open it up to a video of him flooring it and hitting 130mph in MY car.
 

85_305

Banned
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Location
Buffalo NY/FT Bragg, NC
TDI
1999.5 Jetta 5spd
Horrible luck, gotta be careful with those race tunes though letting folks who aren't knowledgable of the quirks getting behind the controls.
1000% agree with this. People really dont understand these cars, especially when modded. I let my buddy drive my car once while I was driving my truck somewhere, and I told him to go easy on it and dont f* around, I think there's a boost leak.


10 minutes into his drive, my phone vibrates; I open it up to a video of him flooring it and hitting 130mph in MY car.

But you might have blown your seals on your turbo. If thats the case it will be eating all that oil in the video. Putting the new turbo on allows the car to run properly but the oil is still being burned out of the IC, exhaust, DP, etc.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Every time I let someone drive my car they immediately floor it around 1500rpm. Then they get to 2400rpm and slow down, and look at me and say "wow!" incredible power!

I'm usually too confused to say anything. One guy who did that is a brilliant aviation mechanic. Another one was automotive mechanical engineer with an advanced degree. I don't know how to approach the subject with guys who are supposed to know so much already... :(
 

85_305

Banned
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Location
Buffalo NY/FT Bragg, NC
TDI
1999.5 Jetta 5spd
hahahaha thats awesome. If that puts a smile on their face, I'd love to see the look on them if they woulda stayed in it until the TURBO actually lit
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
Every time I let someone drive my car they immediately floor it around 1500rpm. Then they get to 2400rpm and slow down, and look at me and say "wow!" incredible power!

I'm usually too confused to say anything. One guy who did that is a brilliant aviation mechanic. Another one was automotive mechanical engineer with an advanced degree. I don't know how to approach the subject with guys who are supposed to know so much already... :(

this is exactly what they do! I don't understand they think it's diesel soo at 1,200 rpm they should floor it and at 2,300 rpm they should shift and do it again. By doing so burying the EGTs killing the turbine with high EMP flooding the cylinders with fuel smoking like a train and causing serious boost problems.

it's not a 7.3 litre diesel ffs :(

you can't floor a 2256 until atleast 2,200 rpms =/

edit: and is it just me or does no one know how to drive manual? These guys shift the car like they're in a rally car and jam the gear as fast as they can. Like they can't change gears fast enough, all I hear between the surge is my syncros going FUUUUUUUUUUU
 

scubagli

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Location
leeds ny
TDI
1986 audi 4000Q ALH SWAP in progress...
No one drives my Tdi, I can deal with it if I break it, if someone else does I don't know what I'd do...actually tdijetta99 gets to drive my car...
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
and is it just me or does no one know how to drive manual? These guys shift the car like they're in a rally car and jam the gear as fast as they can. Like they can't change gears fast enough, all I hear between the surge is my syncros going FUUUUUUUUUUU
Oh gawd... a little black hole opened up in my heart when I read this. Yes, this is exactly what every uneducated driver has done when I encourage them to see how fast my car is. They just don't understand the difference between driving fast and working the controls fast. Driving fast = :cool: Grabbing my shifter and trying to rip it out while dropping the clutch... = Not cool.
 
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Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
ran some more logs... if anyone wants to look at them, pm me your email and I can email the whole file... looks like the timing is just fine it follows on a dime. during the smokey section and misfire it is requesting 3.3 btdc and is geting 2.9btdc.... doesn't seem bad enough to cause a problem..

Mike
 

dieselfuel

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Location
ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-ZwZ56or8


Slapped another turbo on it and the problem has been reduced about 80 percent. However, it will still blow some white smoke (not blue) and it smells like raw diesel no oil tinge to it.

Probably going to have to rip it back apart again :(
When you slapped on the new turbo, are you sure the actuator is properly set? Set is so the arm starts moving at 5hg. Also, your duty cycle @4000 rpm in 4th gear, shouldn't be over 80%. If it is, you need to adjust your actuator. (Mine is around 60-65%)

Where is the timing set? Try setting it with a VCDS to 4 degrees BTDC.

Next, I would adjust the IQ until you don't see any black smoke in your rear view mirror when you are flogging it.


df
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
When you slapped on the new turbo, are you sure the actuator is properly set? Set is so the arm starts moving at 5hg. Also, your duty cycle @4000 rpm in 4th gear, shouldn't be over 80%. If it is, you need to adjust your actuator. (Mine is around 60-65%)

Where is the timing set? Try setting it with a VCDS to 4 degrees BTDC.

Next, I would adjust the IQ until you don't see any black smoke in your rear view mirror when you are flogging it.


df
my actuator cracks exactly at 5.5 fully open 19. Not it dude, been through that along with Jeremy haha.

my duty cycle at 4k floored 4th is like 42 percent if that lmao. What do you mean change the timing? Change it at idle? what does it matter what the timing is at idle? As soon as you apply throttle the timing changes anyway to what ever the tune is set at right? Also, the smoking isn't at idle...

I could try dropping the IQ back and see what that does.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Change it at idle? what does it matter what the timing is at idle? As soon as you apply throttle the timing changes anyway to what ever the tune is set at right?
Assuming we're talking about adaptation timing advance and not static timing, I believe there IS a change in the entire map regardless of tune.

Many of us with stock or stage 1-3 tunes have tried advancing timing in adaptation and found an increase in power and a significant increase in mpg.

Smoke should be reduced, and peak cylinder pressures will rise.
 

dieselfuel

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Location
ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Yes, adaptation. And I'd adjust that actuator to start movement @ 5inHg. That would also raise your duty cycle, too.

42% maybe the opposite extreme to the low side. Over 80% is too much. 42% maybe too low.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
Assuming we're talking about adaptation timing advance and not static timing, I believe there IS a change in the entire map regardless of tune.

Many of us with stock or stage 1-3 tunes have tried advancing timing in adaptation and found an increase in power and a significant increase in mpg.

Smoke should be reduced, and peak cylinder pressures will rise.
I'll look into it, I wasn't trying to be a rude, I apparently was unaware of this mod. Or maybe I read about it and thought better not to mess with it and end up breaking something :rolleyes:

Yes, adaptation. And I'd adjust that actuator to start movement @ 5inHg. That would also raise your duty cycle, too.

42% maybe the opposite extreme to the low side. Over 80% is too much. 42% maybe too low.
Good to know I'll go back and check my logs for certain and let you know exactly where it is. I realize this may be splitting hairs and yell at me if I'm wrong but is 5.5inHG that big of a difference from 5inHG???

LOL.

Sorry about another hiccup in your build man. GTB!
I would love to get a GTB =/ but I would have to redo my header, intake, charge, and exhaust piping. I really didn't want to spend the funds to do it the first time haha. I'll do it if I can't get this sorted, other than the few hiccups the car does run beautifully and I couldn't be happier with it :)
 

dieselfuel

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Location
ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
The difference between 5 and 5.5 is 10%. Would you except 10% less mpg, 10% less hp, 10% less torque... you get the idea.

I believe the problem you (and Kooyajerms) are experiencing is something simple that is being overlooked.

Like if someone replaces a faulty MAF. The new one is bad, but the mechanic never thinks it could be the MAF because he just installed a new one. When in actuality, he installed a new, defective MAF.

Go back to the basics and double check.

Also, your smoking problem could be from the original turbo dumping oil and/or fuel into the cat and now it needs to burn off.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
Not sure I want to change the adaptive timing. At idle it's already sitting at 4.2 BTDC seems more than advanced enough to me?? I'll crawl back under the car and adjust the arm this week and I'll post back up.

DF I need to update my signature. I had it removed for testing and haven't put it back in since.
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
4.2 should be plenty advanced.
oil in the intake track would be my guess on the white smoke.

try turning up the injectors, and hitting the starter. watching to see that they are all producing a fine precise mist... just dont get too close!!!

if they worked fine before, and the still pop off a uniform mist, you could pretty much rule out fueling as the cause of the miss. not a scientific test, but a visual verification.
 

dieselfuel

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Location
ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
If your timimg's at 4.2 BTDC, that fine (I'm assuming your talking about the adaptation block in the VDSC).

Also, I'm assuming you check the lower IC hose for excessive oil.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
Didn't make it under the car tonight =/

No oil in the intake / charge tubes.

I checked the timing under the adaptations section after logging in under block 4... didn't think to check it anywhere else... I can if need be though.

I'll try to fiddle with the actuator crack/fully open point tomorrow night
 
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