Uoa 507.00

wjdell · Sep 19, 2008

It looks pretty normal for a oil with a VIS of 11.5 to 12. You wear is still below the national average. The Al is always high with 507 and many will have Al in the virgin oil. Your data is important as you have three OCI"s of LLX and now we can compare how Mobil works for you. Try to run at least three intervals.

Post in UOA DATABASE please - link in my signature and instructions in post #1.

dhdenney · Sep 20, 2008

Man I just got my latest UOA on LL3 for 10K and it SUX. I have no idea what happened. Soot was lowest ever and Fe was highest ever. Like 123. Really don't get it.

wjdell · Sep 20, 2008

put all of the UOA's in order and lets look at them. or email them to me

dhdenney · Sep 20, 2008

Note the inheritance sample is two previous to this last one. I sent two in last time and they processed the other one first so the last one and the third to the end are the same interval.

wjdell · Sep 20, 2008

How did you pull this sample

dhdenney · Sep 20, 2008

Through an Oil Analyzers extraction pump, used new tubing with a discarded first sample.

wjdell · Sep 20, 2008

At 70k you are clearly going in the wrong direction. If I had to guess I would say that this should turn around very soon or something is wrong. Other than Fe the UOA looks so normal - its all Fe. If its bad next UOA - you should consider a tear down. If its the cam then we will finally have a BRM which spent its entire life on VAG approved oils. Proving a soft cam lobe does not care if its VAG approved or not.

wjdell · Sep 20, 2008

Hurst89 also from Kentucky is not doing well - his last UOA a 249 Fe. He to used VAG oils, we will have a UOA from hurst89 in a few months I think.

I would write him and compare notes see if you can find any correlation.

dhdenney · Sep 20, 2008

Wow. 249=bad. Some may argue that the Amsoil was not VAG approved and could be the culprit but I used it for 35K miles and it's been 21K since I stopped so I would think the problem would have manifested itself before now. I am going to sample at the 5K miles mark. If it's trending up, I will seriously consider trading the car in before I hit the labor issue and replacement cost. I would rather not have to work on the car when I get in from work everyday.

wjdell · Sep 20, 2008

hurst89 IIRC never used anything but VAG oils and his engine at 47k using Elf DID has this high count. If its a soft lobe then it was destined to do this, using thicker oils may have delayed it but its just a matter of time. VFChicago has similar numbers to you and changed to Mobil cSt 15 and every UOA since has been excellent.

dhdenney · Sep 20, 2008

wjdell said:
hurst89 IIRC never used anything but VAG oils and his engine at 47k using Elf DID has this high count. If its a soft lobe then it was destined to do this, using thicker oils may have delayed it but its just a matter of time. VFChicago has similar numbers to you and changed to Mobil cSt 15 and every UOA since has been excellent.

Which Mobil is he using?

wjdell · Sep 20, 2008

TDT - Delvac - they were the same - we have two users of the new Delvac ESP look at the performance list, Delvac ESP and TDT are slightly different now. Any CJ4 oil will work well. You can see we have a Schaeffer S9000 user that did very well. But that user had no problems before. Then there was one guy who used DEO and his turn around was instant also. He too had a 100 ppm Fe at 10k. He went to DEO and at 2500 had 29 ppm, alot inherited from previous. Tested again at 7500 and had 35 ppm, and at 10k for a final of 45 ppm.

Mach1 · Sep 24, 2008

DH, Not to add injury to insult...Check out ANUT's post about the PD cam he is doing right now, over in the A5 section. Good luck.

Hurst89, if you are out there, you might want to check out the thread as well..

You guys can post up a VIN and a build date, so we can see if there is some correlation in builds..Thanks..

dhdenney · Sep 26, 2008

Mach1 said:
DH, Not to add injury to insult...Check out ANUT's post about the PD cam he is doing right now, over in the A5 section. Good luck.

Hurst89, if you are out there, you might want to check out the thread as well..

You guys can post up a VIN and a build date, so we can see if there is some correlation in builds..Thanks..

Going over there now.

robbinsresort · Oct 8, 2008

wjdell · Oct 8, 2008

robbin

I think you should stay at 10k, not extend, your engine is showing a medium to low wear trend @ 5.821.

aNUT · Oct 8, 2008

nice - quite respectable wear/Kmiles for a PD; beats most of the BRMs in the database too.

I think Will's onto something with his plans to change the oil and full flow filter around 10K; leaving the BP filter and the oil in it alone. Wear is in check; and you keep a nice fresh additive package in there.

robbinsresort · Oct 8, 2008

wjdell said:
robbin
I think you should stay at 10k, not extend, your engine is showing a medium to low wear trend @ 5.821.

aNUT said:
nice - quite respectable wear/Kmiles for a PD; beats most of the BRMs in the database too.
I think Will's onto something with his plans to change the oil and full flow filter around 10K; leaving the BP filter and the oil in it alone. Wear is in check; and you keep a nice fresh additive package in there.

I was thinking the same thing. Nice to know the experts agreed with me.
I beat on the car pretty good, so I have no problem changing at 10k with a bypass filter replacement every 20k.

I'm glad they put the note in there about the silicon, otherwise I would have thought I didn't seal the air filter well enough.

Thanks for the feedback. -Chris

Dieselgeek · Oct 8, 2008

For a lead reduction experiment I would love to see this car's next 10K report go without the use of the clutch safety switch so the car could be started without depressing the stupid clutch on every start. Back when I worked on VW's there weren't clutch safety switches. The crank's thrust bearings lived forever. Ahhh, the Good Old Days.

I would never suggest that you bypass an important safety feature...

Bob_Fout · Oct 8, 2008

corrado tdi said:
For a lead reduction experiment I would love to see this car's next 10K report go without the use of the clutch safety switch so the car could be started without depressing the stupid clutch on every start. Back when I worked on VW's there weren't clutch safety switches. The crank's thrust bearings lived forever. Ahhh, the Good Old Days.

I would never suggest that you bypass an important safety feature...

Funny story about that. My previous vehicle (84 Jeep CJ-7 258 I-6) didn't have the clutch safety switch either. I was used to jumping in, taking the shifter out of gear, and starting up. The first time I tried that with my (then) new Jetta it didn't start...I got very worried

then the light went DING.

Man that motor/vehicle was a stump puller (literally)

aNUT · Oct 9, 2008

I think the lifespan of the bypass filter is significantly greater than 20K. That sucker's expensive. I'm planning on full flow and sump oil changes at 20K; pushing the bypass filter and the oil in it out to 40 or 60K.

wjdell · Oct 9, 2008

Using Delvac ESP I think you can get out there - - If the filter plugs there is no damage you just lose filtering ability. If Amsoil claims it can go 60k in concert with Ea0 and high grade GRP IV oil then I imagine in most cases it will do this even without the Ea0.

Lightflyer1 · Oct 10, 2008

aNUT said:
I think the lifespan of the bypass filter is significantly greater than 20K. That sucker's expensive. I'm planning on full flow and sump oil changes at 20K; pushing the bypass filter and the oil in it out to 40 or 60K.

That was what I was planning too. I will drain soon and send in a sample to see what is up. I want to buy a filter pack and change everything but the bypass filter every 20k.

aNUT · Oct 10, 2008

Lightflyer1 said:
That was what I was planning too. I will drain soon and send in a sample to see what is up. I want to buy a filter pack and change everything but the bypass filter every 20k.

Based on the $1800 repair I just turned around on a BRM w/ lifter failure, I think that sticking with a 10K max OCI w/ bypass filter is best for PD users. I think extended drains even with the BPF is a bad idea for the '04+ crowd. $45 for oil and filter is peanuts compared to a $700 cam.

Lightflyer1 · Oct 10, 2008

UOA will tell "me" soon. So far these incidents have been few. Too few for me to get really excited about. I have:

RC2 driven conservatively
EGR turned off through chip
3" SS DP and tube, turbo back
LL3 507 oil
DG bypass filter

I want to start trying 5 gallons of GTL and a one shot Standyne per tank as well.

dhdenney · Oct 24, 2008

Not good for me.

wjdell · Oct 24, 2008

I forgot - did you change that oil out at 3300 to get those counts down and all that soot. If you did I am going to guess we will see you at 7 to 8 ppm total wear metals per k next UOA.

dhdenney · Oct 24, 2008

wjdell said:
I forgot - did you change that oil out at 3300 to get those counts down and all that soot. If you did I am going to guess we will see you at 7 to 8 ppm total wear metals per k next UOA.

I'm still running this oil. I wanted to see how it turned out. I don't know which direction to take. I have some TDT in the garage but not sure how much good it would do to switch to TDT. I thought maybe I could sample again either as is or with a fresh change of ESP but I am inclined to think the Fe count will keep rising.

wjdell · Oct 24, 2008

The disadvantage would be if you have 53 ppm Fe @ 3300 miles then chances are, lack of a by-pass filter, you have that much or more that is larger than 5 microns all the way up to 30 microns grinding away making new scratches in the walls and rings - cutting slots in the bearings and valve tran. Do a PQ "particle quantifier" and it the number is larger than the IPC count of 53 you will see its a vicious circle till it gets cleaned up.

dhdenney · Oct 24, 2008

wjdell said:
The disadvantage would be if you have 53 ppm Fe @ 3300 miles then chances are, lack of a by-pass filter, you have that much or more that is larger than 5 microns all the way up to 30 microns grinding away making new scratches in the walls and rings - cutting slots in the bearings and valve tran. Do a PQ "particle quantifier" and it the number is larger than the IPC count of 53 you will see its a vicious circle till it gets cleaned up.

I was thinking about unloading the car. Stealer called me earlier and said they got in 6 new TDI's--3 manual, 2 DSG, and 1 DSG wagen. He said he could make me a deal since they were no longer charging premiums. So I could possibly get one under MSRP slightly. Alternatively, I can try to make it to 100k and then change TB, clutch, and cam in one lick. Thing is that could be a $3k-$4k job if I took it to someone. Probably just under $1500 if I did the work myself. But the question remains, do I want to fool with all that and the time it takes or just reset everything?

Uoa 507.00

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