Uoa 507.00

I think its possible that the oil may not be the cause of the increased wear metals. I think its possible these metals are from the turbo charger. I reviewed my records and have found one other correlation. In the past six months I have logged more turnpike time than ever before. Instead of 6 to 8 hours turnpike time per OCI in the past, that figure has more than doubled at 24 hours per OCI. This means that instead of 8 hours at 80 mph, I have gone 24 hours at 80 mph. Maybe the difference of 2000 rpm vs 2500 rpm is what we see here, just a theory.

WJ, you may be overthinking it. You are worried about numbers that would come back different if you sent in another sample from the same batch. This UOA stuff is fun, but you shouldn't draw too many conclusions about what oil is best from a $20 test.

UOA's fun and informative true. I am watching for coolant - dirt is easy to prevent, keep the filter clean and sealed. My filter is better now then new, albeit I will change at apx 40k.

% of error mparker is 10%

OK then Cu, Pb - no worries at all. But Al without doubt is going up, and even when we remove 10% its clear that it has nearly doubled since switching to 507. The only other difference is IIRC the turbo kicks in > 2000 rpm. I have over doubled my time at or abouve 2400 rpm in the last 6 months which is part of the previous OCI and all of this one.

Make no mistake I have no worries about my engine at 30k and 5 UOA's. None at all believe me, who would. I just find the trend of certain wear metals interesting, and something to watch. I will change this oil and use VW LL III again. Oil flipping is a mistake when you are posting my numbers. This oil is readily available, reasonable in cost and my two UOA's show it is able to protect this engine in the conditions which I operate. I think I will use it at least 1 more interval before making any determination.

Perspective?

mparker326 said:

WJ, you may be overthinking it. You are worried about numbers that would come back different if you sent in another sample from the same batch. This UOA stuff is fun, but you shouldn't draw too many conclusions about what oil is best from a $20 test.

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mparker has a point. There is a limit to what the numbers can tell you. You don't know where the metal is coming from or the test to test variability. If not in the oil to begin with, Cu/Pb are probably coming from bearings; Al from pistons. If they are in the oil to begin with, they should show up in an oil control and the level should remain constant. Another issue you might want to consider is just how much metal we are talking about here. How long could this level of loss be sustained without significantly degrading the mass of the bearings or other components that are contributing the metal? Unless the metal is coming off in particles large enough to be trapped by the oil filter, you should be able to calculate that.

I think I will send a virgin sample off - I dont think anyone on the forum has done this with VW LL III. Being this is a VAG 507 oil it will be a worthwhile investment for others also. I will send off next week, and I will do a DRF on it.

I doubt the increased Al is from the pistons, Fe went down not up. 507 should give superior lifter performance, IMO. Its in the oil, the oils ability to clean, or the increased hours at 2400+ rpm, thus the turbo is my guess. We may just see that 507 is working and the parts are breaking in better than with 505.01.

So far we can see that 6.61 per liter can work for many, they need not spend 11+. I will watch LLX and ESP to see if they are more consistant in VIS during the interval.
Bless those willing to spend the money on ESP and LLX, their data will be important as I truely believe that 507 is a oil many will use for years.

The trend clearly shows a increase in Al, what that means is the only question.

I also want to say my confidence in Polaris labs is 100% - the previous OCI I had Litium of 3ppm show up and this OCI 0ppm During that OCI I changed to new petcock valve, I saw the grease from the factory. I blew it out with compressor but did not wash the valve. During that OCI I flushed repeatedly, but returned the oil to the sump. Its clean now .

Again, assuming that they are not already in the oil, you can tolerate some loss of wear metals indefinitely. How much can they increase before you should begin to worry?

Gosh I really do not know and have resisted making comparison counts and look only for trends for my engine.

I have reviewed as many LLX and ESP UOA's I can find and it seems to me they hold their viscosity better than my LL III UOA's.

wj,

This UOA looks fine to me and I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Actually, it's quite good for a Castrol product, IMO. It will be interesting to see how these 5w30 oils play out long-term when compared to the tried-and-trusted 5w40s they are replacing.

G

I have looked and discovered that Castrol Powerflow SLX III 5W30 504/507 and Castrol Long Life III are not the same oils. Very similar but not the same. Seems the Poweflow has a higher VIS of 12, and the VW LL III is 11.6. This is why I thought my VIS was low but I was wrong 11.3 would be very normal.

Where is the Powerflow available?

Well it appears that the turning point in SLX III performance for my car, with my driving conditions, and my fuel source is between 6000 and 7000 miles. Lead is up, way up and for the first time I show a SOOT level of .1%. I guess the SAE study was accurate for me as they claimed the optimum OCI for SYNTHETIC oil in a diesel engine as 6900 miles. But what do they know .

I wanted to try Total Quartz Diamond Gold Platinum Silver Ultra Uber Delux Super Ineo 504/507 before switching to S9000. So I got a case ordered and will do three OCI's of this oil. Seems to me the API oils are better for the engine and the numbers show that. The one LLX @ 2.0 ppm is questionable as it has 1100 ppm Mg. in it. Time will tell if the API oils will do any cam, emission, or injector damge.

Why the jump in lead, its hard to say for sure. Maybe the soot is working on the new bearings. I say new as this is still a young engine. Its a very good UOA and its more proof that the PD cam is not the issue many thought.

See POST # 1 for the numbers.

Well PolePosition pulled a fast one - they called and said the Total Ineo 507 is back ordered and then showed a price increase of 1.54 per litre, they can stick it. So there will be no VOA of Total Ineo from me. Maybe someone else will send out a sample.

I'll leave the details to wjdell, as I believe him to be a smart fellow.

I can report that using my seat of the pants analisys, I could tell a difference after I changed to M1 ESP 5-30 507.00. Mileage went up almost 3 mpg, the engine is quieter, smoother, and seems a bit peppier to me too.

Course all that means squat, as today my flywheel decided to venture out of it's proper location, taking the DSG trans housing along with it. That had nothing to do with oil though.

Wow - thats to bad I am sorry to hear that. I wish you luck and hope you get it all replaced for free. I know that I did actually show a .3 mpg increase with 507 but my car is so new that may be deceptive as it may be just long term break in as many claim. I had long talk with a reputable oil company rep today and he aknowledged that mobil base oil is a good oil, better than Shell Rotella, the add pack is stronger also. Mobil could dominate the 507 market easily but will not, profits are to good. I believe there is price fixing going on but I do not know how, or if anyone will attempt to prove it.

Keep us posted on your DMF issue.

Rod Bearing said:

Course all that means squat, as today my flywheel decided to venture out of it's proper location, taking the DSG trans housing along with it. That had nothing to do with oil though.

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There goes another one...let's add to the list and welcome to the club

Lets give credit were due.

Its not the DSG, that transmission is a very good trans. My second UOA coming up in a month.

VW got cheap on the DMF " dual mass flywheel" - that has been updated. I only hope there is a class action on the DMF and VW is responsible to replace all the DMF that fragment. I also pray that GM makes us a 60+ mpg mini car soon. Worse then the 800 USD to replace this flywheel is I am not looking forward to pulling the trans to replace it.

wjdell, did you notice a difference in the engine idle, quietness, and smoothness after you changed to the 507 oil?

Mine felt like it got chipped after I changed. It's quieter and definitely feels zippier.

My car won't be ready for at least 2 weeks. I think the noise I thought was DSG chatter as it downshifted was actually backlash flywheel noise. Funny thing, it never had a vibration till it hulled itself. They said the cam belt may have jumped/broken in the ruckus. it gave no warning, then just sounded like hell opened up under the floorboards and then everything, engine and trans instantly locked up. Then she started dumping DSG oil out on the pavement.

Quite a spectacular gutting of parts, actually.

Rod Bearing said:

wjdell, did you notice a difference in the engine idle, quietness, and smoothness after you changed to the 507 oil?

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I did not after the switch to LL3. I got my case of M1 ESP today so we'll see very soon if there's any difference.

No I did not notice a power gain - The lubricant was superior to 505.01 my roller looks better, the 1 roller I can see. My UOA's improved but after I started heating the oil.

I am gald you are under warranty - I wish my flywhell would fail but not damage my DSG under warranty.

wjdell said:

I am gald you are under warranty - I wish my flywhell would fail but not damage my DSG under warranty.

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Let me drive it for a few hundred miles. I'll take care of it

I said and not damage my DSG

wjdell said:

... My UOA's improved but after I started heating the oil.
.

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oil pan heater? And for how long before starting the car?

thanks...

3 to 6 hours - its 180 watts - never noticed a change in the electric bill.

wjdell said:

3 to 6 hours - its 180 watts - never noticed a change in the electric bill.

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Which heater did you install?

Its a Katz - they also have a 200 watt but I live in Florida . I am going to buy a timer to turn it on cause down here 3 hours was about enough. I think it was about $25.00 at amazon. JB Weld has 500 F working temp with utility strap for cure. I removed the strap at the next OC. I do not have a cold start problem so using one of these 1500 watt heaters was not neccessary. I simply wanted to test the theory that a warm block reduces Fe counts. Condensation on clyinder walls till warm up they say account for 80% of all wear. Because the block is cold there is acidic condensation on the cylinder walls. Also till the oil temp is up the oil is not protecting, flow is not the issue. It seems to have worked. I am going to stop using the heater in 3 OCI's to see if the counts go back up. So in about 1.5 years we will know.

wjdell said:

Its a Katz - they also have a 200 watt but I live in Florida . I am going to buy a timer to turn it on cause down here 3 hours was about enough. I think it was about $25.00 at amazon. ....

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Thanks for the further information.

Wear metals: (ppm)
Al 3, Ba 0, B 44, Cd 0, Ca 2554, Cr 3, Cu 5, Fe 51, Pb 12, Mg 271, Mn 1, Mo1 Ni 1, P 1104, K 7, Si 4, Ag 0, Na 1, Sn 1, Ti 0, V 0, Zn 1205,
Particle Count (ct/ml)
ST: 21, OXI: 67, NIT: 15, SUL: 62, W: n, A: n, F: n, V100: 11.0
2001 NB with 142,911 mi. Elf CRV Evolution oil with 22,000 mi. since last change....
please comment

Latest 507 UOA




stellar. We'll keep an eye in wear next time.

8808 miles on the oil, no oil added. 77,799 miles on engine/car. No oil additives used. Fuel pump failed and replaced during this interval. Solaris 507 in car from May 26th - September 10th
77,799 69011 59298
ALUMINUM 14 8 9

CHROMIUM 1 2 2
IRON 41 40 56
COPPER 4 3 5
LEAD 7 8 7
TIN 1 0 0
MOLYBDENUM 1 1 1
NICKEL 1 1 1
MANGANESE 4 1 1
SILVER 0 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0 0
POTASSIUM 5 7 6
BORON 3 3 7
SILICON 7 3 3
SODIUM 3 3 3
CALCIUM 1700 1972 1769
MAGNESIUM 7 12 13
PHOSPHORUS 621 706 615
ZINC 745 884 763
BARIUM 0 0 0
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 62.9 60.8 64.1
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 11.04 10.45 11.36
Flashpoint in °F 425 420 435
Fuel % 0.5 0.5 0.5
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0
Water % 0.0 0.0 0.0
Insolubles % 0.4 0.4 0.3

The 69k and this uoa were both Solaris 507. I have now switched to Mobil 1 507.

I don't know why it came out like that, I had columns and normal size letters.