What are "High Volume" diesel stations?

I know people here always mention to pump diesel from a "high volume" or "high turnover" station but I want to know what that really means... obviously trucker stations are high volume as they see trucks pumping diesel everyday, but what about stations that are just for generally vehicles, how often does diesel have to be pumped before it's considered "bad" or "old".

There's no black and white line. Besides, there is no reasonable way for you to know how often a given station refills their tanks.

So use a shred of common sense. If you have a choice between one major name-brand filling station at a major intersection between two multi-lane roads in each direction, and another off-brand station on a quiet side street ... pick the major name-brand one at the major intersection.

Of course... just simply curious

It's not just fuel volume but the quality of service on filters and clean tanks.

I would trust a near new small time gas station with its new tanks and new pumps over a 30 year old large volume truck stop with its 30 year old tanks....


Or just add a few ounces of quality additive and/or clean biodiesel and not worry.

In a local situation, buy fuel where you see local truck drivers buying fuel. As their living depends on keeping their vehicles running reliably, the fuel there must be OK.

k1xv said:

In a local situation, buy fuel where you see local truck drivers buying fuel. As their living depends on keeping their vehicles running reliably, the fuel there must be OK.

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Sez who?.......why must it be OK. Truck drivers might buy crap fuel to. How old is to old for fuel? All this who rah is speculative. I have seen no proof in these threads that a small station has or has had crappy fuel compared to a high turnover truck stop. Show me the proof!

MichaelB said:

Sez who?.......why must it be OK. Truck drivers might buy crap fuel to. How old is to old for fuel? All this who rah is speculative. I have seen no proof in these threads that a small station has or has had crappy fuel compared to a high turnover truck stop. Show me the proof!

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You sound like a guy who would continue to go to the same greasy spoon diner after getting food poisoning a few times.

MichaelB said:

Sez who?.......why must it be OK. Truck drivers might buy crap fuel to. How old is to old for fuel? All this who rah is speculative. I have seen no proof in these threads that a small station has or has had crappy fuel compared to a high turnover truck stop. Show me the proof!

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Stations make only a few pennies per gallon of fuel that they handle. The greater the volume they turn over, the more $$$ they have available to maintain their infrastructure.

To assume that a trucker would knowingly put BAD fuel in his truck is beyond funny.

Bill

Show me the proof! High volume stations have GOOD fuel Lower volume stations have crap. Right?

MichaelB said:

Show me the proof!

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Just keep doing what you're doing. It evidently works for you!

MichaelB said:

Show me the proof! High volume stations have GOOD fuel Lower volume stations have crap. Right?

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YOUR words. Not mine, nor any TDIClub Guru, AFAIK.

Bill

tdiatlast said:

Just keep doing what you're doing. It evidently works for you!

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I think it works for a lot of others too...I have not read any posts here about junk fuel at a "low volume" station just the same old same old "buy you fuel where the truckers do " mantra repeated over and over and over again.

40X40 said:

Stations make only a few pennies per gallon of fuel that they handle. The greater the volume they turn over, the more $$$ they have available to maintain their infrastructure.

To assume that a trucker would knowingly put BAD fuel in his truck is beyond funny.

Bill

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Nobody said anything about "knowingly" your words not mine Eh?

Generally the people working the store are a pretty good indication of how the fuel is maintained, particularly management. I personally use a small town fuel station, the owners own 2 seperate locations. The wife & son run the buisiness and the husband operates a rather large construction buisiness with a large fleet of trucks and equipment. Obviously he uses the station to fuel all of his equipment so maintaining the tanks properly are in his/their best interest. An old gas station does not necessarily have as old of fuel tanks, they all must be up to code regardless of age.

Best Before dates on Diesel Fuel

Diesel Does not have a Best Before Date.

Think about your own personal situation.

Lets assume a High Mileage driver >25,000 mi /year.

Now take our older model TDIs...

The MPG generally is in the 40s to 50s.

Worst case, 40 MPG, with 25,000 mi per year . or about 2100 miles per month.

Now at 40 MPG, to drive 2100 miles gives a consumption of approx 52 gallons.

The Tank in a Jetta/Golf/Passat is approx 12 gallons, so thats 4-5 fillups per month.

The Fuel then is at a maximum , 1 week old when it is burned up in the engine.

Now Expand this cycle to your local retail establishment

A typical Tanker contains 4-5 compartments , with a tri-axle trailer holding 12,500 gallons Total.

Assuming only one tank is used for a delivery, thats 2,500 gallons per fillup at your local dealer.

Each Tank of Tandem axle dump trucks uses 60-100 gallons. Typically they fillup every day or two.

Depending on the number of trucks that pump out 100-200 gallons per fill, those 2500 gallons can be used up pretty fast.

(25 x 100 gallons or 12 x 200 gallons),

However , most retailers (owners) know how much they use each day/week.

In my town, most fuel stations get a refill every other night (it;s safer to ship petroleum fuel at night time).


Larger Stops have bigger tanks, Look at the size of the concrete pad above the tanks. This will give you an idea about the volume of fuel stored.

If a retailer were to take a refill delivery, every week of a full tanker of approx 12,500 gallons of D2 thats a High Volume station.

If they take delivery of 1 compartment in 1 week , that's 2,500 Gallons.
This is a Low Volume station, but still has high quality fuel, because their turnover is 2500 gallons per week.

Some retailers buy the fuel at price A and if the local price goes up they hike up the price, but will (bad Business practice) rarely sell product where they lose money on every gallon sold. ( A PRice war in the area), they probably will keep their price the same or reduce it slightly from their normal margin, but never below what they bought it at.

Check this link for the 'Rack Prices' at local terminals in Southern Ontario.

http://www.shell.ca/en/products-services/on-the-road/pricing/app-rack-pricing.html

This gives a little insight into the finicky biz of petroleum marketing.

The Retailer is sold the fuel at a 'Rack Price' at the terminal. They then have to ship and deliver it to the local retailer.

Hauler trucks generally get about $1.00 per mile (depending on Region) so it is not cheap even to deliver the stuff.

Water Condenses on the inside of the tanks due to the ambient air. Coastal and High Humidity areas are subject to more of an effect. It is controllable by keeping the tank filled.

This applys both to small tanks (12.5 gal Jetta) and 10,000 Litre Fuel Tanks.

The highest volume station will be the one with the lowest price on the sign.

Terrific-In-Tahoma said:

Now take our older model TDIs...

The Tank in a Jetta/Golf/Passat is approx 12 gallons, so thats 4-5 fillups per month.

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Not to wander O.T. but I assume your 12.5 gallon number is being provided for the newer models/generations than your '01? I haven't ever had a fill up below 14 gallons in either of the '01 Jettas I've owned, even when I first got a TDI and stopped within a few miles of seeing the LF light on my first few tanks. Nowdays I rarely put in less than 15.5 gallons and have pumped 16.5 - 16.9 gallons quite a few times. Of course I'm also assuming you mean U.S. Gallons by your 12.5 number?
I keep seeing people talking about a MkIV G/J with its' 12.5 gallon tank and I'm wondering where that number keeps coming from because I've had 2 '01 Jettas and could never put under 14 gallons in from "full" (when the pump clicked off) to a few miles into the low fuel light and the two '01 Jettas I've owned ran nearly identical gauge movement and low fuel light and tank capacity behaviors on my average 1.8k miles driven per month over the past couple of years.

Terrific-In-Tahoma said:

Diesel Does not have a Best Before Date.

Think about your own personal situation.

Lets assume a High Mileage driver >25,000 mi /year.

Now take our older model TDIs...

The MPG generally is in the 40s to 50s.

Worst case, 40 MPG, with 25,000 mi per year . or about 2100 miles per month.

Now at 40 MPG, to drive 2100 miles gives a consumption of approx 52 gallons.

The Tank in a Jetta/Golf/Passat is approx 12 gallons, so thats 4-5 fillups per month.

The Fuel then is at a maximum , 1 week old when it is burned up in the engine.

Now Expand this cycle to your local retail establishment

A typical Tanker contains 4-5 compartments , with a tri-axle trailer holding 12,500 gallons Total.

Assuming only one tank is used for a delivery, thats 2,500 gallons per fillup at your local dealer.

Each Tank of Tandem axle dump trucks uses 60-100 gallons. Typically they fillup every day or two.

Depending on the number of trucks that pump out 100-200 gallons per fill, those 2500 gallons can be used up pretty fast.

(25 x 100 gallons or 12 x 200 gallons),

However , most retailers (owners) know how much they use each day/week.

In my town, most fuel stations get a refill every other night (it;s safer to ship petroleum fuel at night time).


Larger Stops have bigger tanks, Look at the size of the concrete pad above the tanks. This will give you an idea about the volume of fuel stored.

If a retailer were to take a refill delivery, every week of a full tanker of approx 12,500 gallons of D2 thats a High Volume station.

If they take delivery of 1 compartment in 1 week , that's 2,500 Gallons.
This is a Low Volume station, but still has high quality fuel, because their turnover is 2500 gallons per week.

Some retailers buy the fuel at price A and if the local price goes up they hike up the price, but will (bad Business practice) rarely sell product where they lose money on every gallon sold. ( A PRice war in the area), they probably will keep their price the same or reduce it slightly from their normal margin, but never below what they bought it at.

Check this link for the 'Rack Prices' at local terminals in Southern Ontario.

http://www.shell.ca/en/products-services/on-the-road/pricing/app-rack-pricing.html

This gives a little insight into the finicky biz of petroleum marketing.

The Retailer is sold the fuel at a 'Rack Price' at the terminal. They then have to ship and deliver it to the local retailer.

Hauler trucks generally get about $1.00 per mile (depending on Region) so it is not cheap even to deliver the stuff.

Water Condenses on the inside of the tanks due to the ambient air. Coastal and High Humidity areas are subject to more of an effect. It is controllable by keeping the tank filled.

This applys both to small tanks (12.5 gal Jetta) and 10,000 Litre Fuel Tanks.

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Very interesting read, thank you!

From things I've observed from a lot of reading on this site...

Different generations of VW TDI's seem to be more picky or less picky about fuel quality/content so this "high volume stations" approach doesn't seem to be a good blanket statement approach for all VW TDI vehicles anyway...

If you always look for the cheapest priced station in town to buy your fuel from whether it's gas or diesel, sooner or later you're likely going to pay for it in fuel system problems, but paying more from the big name brands isn't always a guarantee of quality either.

German diesels do seem to be far more particular about fuel quality than domestic pickup trucks so it's definitely something to consider when choosing where to buy your TDI's next tank of fuel.

I've had a few really bad economy tanks and rough running from stations off my usual path where I just needed fuel and they were the only choice, and I usually see about 2mpg better (hwy) under the same driving conditions from the Shell station near my house than the Chevron station near my house, and the big new "Racetrack" fuel station across town at the interstate is a mixed bag. Sometimes I get stellar economy from there, sometimes I get about the same as the Chevron near my house.
I personally choose to avoid the run down looking "top fuel" station and "thompson road grocery" fuel station on opposite corners at the signal light by my neighborhood even though they're often a good bit cheaper priced than the two big name stations a few blocks down near the main shopping area because I get consistent results from the two big name stations and I really don't care that they cost a little more because my car runs well on fuel from either of them and I'd rather believe that my injection pump will be more likely to remain trouble-free and last longer on their fuel instead.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard that saying "it all comes from the same place" in the gasser world from people who drive all over town to find cheaper priced and pay a few cents less per gallon while their gas cars knock and ping badly and they're oblivious to it and completely happy because they know they've saved a few dollars a year on fuel while clueless that their fuel systems and/or engines will end up unhappy and costing them all that savings and more in repair bills down the road which could've been avoided through running better fuel...
My grandfather was one of those people and there was no changing his mind.

So to any TDI owner I'd say do whatever you feel works best for you, if you want to save more money then feel free to chase those cheaper prices.

It's a personal choice and in my particular case, personally I tend to trust the quality of fuel at most of the big name guys near the interstate exit ramps and high traffic main business centers to make my car run well and last longer, much more than I care about who's got the cheapest price in town. But again, that's my choice.

At the Shell station I frequent (lowest price around) I happened in one day when they were dropping Diesel, so I asked the driver how often they delivered..."about once a month" was the reply.

I live outside a small city but I have a Shell station run by the local rancheria about a mile from my house. About 5 miles away is a Union 76 station that is next to the highway. I don't know the turnover at either one but I have the following to go by:

Shell: closest to the Indian casino so a lot of the tour buses fill up there.
Union 76: When I used to drive by on my way to work, I'd usually see landscape maintenance company, utility company, etc. trucks filling up there.

The Union 76 used to be the cheapest but for the last few months the Shell has been so I've been using the latter for my fill ups (along with 5 fl.oz. of PS).

It's just a best guess as to which are high turnover. I live in a metropolitan area that isn't full of truck stops, so I don't see any stations where truck drivers are filling up, so that method provides no real advantage to me.

I've gotten my fuel from a variety of places, included Kroger, Meijer, Speedway, Marathon, BP, and Shell and I've not noticed any real difference with any of them. My longest running tanks were from Meijer. But perhaps I simply had more highway miles on those tanks.

Guys, it probably doesn't matter much about turnover. Gasoline loses octane as it sits. Diesel generally has a longer shelf life. You're not going to find diesel stations that have year old fuel in the tanks, but remember they don't empty them dry before they refill them. You're always going to have some residual fuel that gets mixed in with the new bunch.

I just started a tractor over the weekend that has sat for 4 years. Didn't add any diesel. Yes, it was a Yanmar not a refined TDI, but still. It was cold, took a bit to crank over, but after that ran like...well...a tractor. You couldn't do that with 4 year old gasoline. I wouldn't advise 4 year old diesel in any of our cars but one month of sitting isn't going to matter.

I also let my car sit for 4 months last year. Had a full tank in there too. Got home from Italy and she fired right up. Got over 50 mpg on the tank. So I am not sure there is any good evidence that "old" diesel is going to hurt the vehicles.

Plus you have no idea how long it sat before it was delivered. I doubt they refine it then let it sit for months on end, but I bet it doesn't go right from the refinery into the truck and into the station's tanks. Again, back to my point that the tanks get mixed, so it is inevitable that you will receive some older diesel molecules.

There are always exceptions but the same rules that apply to gasoline don't apply to diesel. Drive more, worry less.

It's not so much the age of the fuel as it is the water and/or algae content that will get you.

^^^^Ding...Ding...Ding...we have a winner!!!!

Very few truckers put fuel into "his" truck. The employee fills up the companies truck with the fuel station that has the better coffee, cleaner showers, better parking, or offers the better rewards program.


Big commercial trucks have more robust fuel pumps and heavy duty water separators.

03_01_TDI said:

Very few truckers put fuel into "his" truck. The employee fills up the companies truck with the fuel station that has the better coffee, cleaner showers, better parking, or offers the better rewards program.


Big commercial trucks have more robust fuel pumps and heavy duty water separators.

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Our VW TDi's are not cheap. So, why don't our cars have ROBUST FUEL PUMPS and HEAVY DUTY WATER SEPARATORS???????????????

TDI2000Zim said:

Our VW TDi's are not cheap. So, why don't our cars have ROBUST FUEL PUMPS and HEAVY DUTY WATER SEPARATORS???????????????

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Welll, they ARE cheap compared to a White, Jimmy, Peterbilt, etc.

^ 25k verse 250,000k.

Designed for 300k (if that) verse 1 million miles.

Designed for 15 gallons a week verse 100 gallons a day.

vanbcguy said:

It's not so much the age of the fuel as it is the water and/or algae content that will get you.

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Bingo!

Also with smaller stations (read smaller storage tanks) there is more of a chance for water contamination IMHO.

03_01_TDI said:

Very few truckers put fuel into "his" truck. The employee fills up the companies truck with the fuel station that has the better coffee, cleaner showers, better parking, or offers the better rewards program.


Big commercial trucks have more robust fuel pumps and heavy duty water separators.

Click to expand...

For owner/operators, it IS their truck. And for company-owned trucks, there are often contracts that stipulate which truck stops to use. Some cost savings involved.