Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standards

Never did quite figure it out. I'm still using the best fluids I possibly can. Difference now is I have a DG RP (no more problems ), and the polystrainer CCV mod I was going to do to our A5 I ended up doing to my 02 A4 first. After about 3 fillups I checked it and removed about a table spoon of oil that didn't make it to my intake.

My theory is these lighter oils are easier turn into a mist and therefore more oil goes into the intake. Now that I have a way to measure the rate of oil entering the intake from the CCV, I could test different types of oil to prove that theory but I doubt I will. I'm leaning on staying with the 0W30's and will probably standardise in 506.01 since that is what is in the A5.

I need to do the CCV mod to the A5 as well. It gets a lot of oil in its intake too.

And please, don't anyone say if I'd drive it right I wouldn't get oil in the intake. Neither of my cars are babied at all .

tditom said:

hutch- what did you ever conclude with the intake problems you had in this thread? I guess you decided that the 507 oil wasn't the cause. Was it your biodiesel?

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Charm said:

Also, this is really rudimentatry, what is the difference between 5w-30 and 5w-40. i know the 5 has to do with viscosity.
Other than Delvac-1 being 5w-40, is there any benefit it has over this 5w-30 Solaris Oil?

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Charm,

The 0W- and 5W- are measures of how much 'drag' the oils produce at the test temperature. They're 'cold crank simulator' number. The number is the 'apparent viscosity' of the fluid under test compared to how well a straight-grade petroleum would perform at the same temperature. 0W- oils are tested at -35c, 5W- at -30c, 10W- at -25c.

The cold performance is only a factor until the engine warms. If an owner runs a lot of short trips in the winter, a 0W- will give slightly better fuel economy than a 5W- or 10W-.

The 5W-40 Delvac will have a higher oil film strength than the 30. Plus, you'll have the higher levels of anti-wear protection found in the CI-4+ products.

Mods and long-life are normally mutually exclusive. Higher power causes higher wear, more stress, and shorter life. You can help slow the wear with lubricant selection, but you'll have to rely on oil experimentation and oil analysis. You can't guess OCI, and you'll need to think 'outside the box' with oil selection.

Andy

YES Andy

The number is the 'apparent viscosity' of the fluid under test compared to how well a straight-grade petroleum would perform at the same temperature.

This is the point everyone seems to miss. WHO USES MINERAL OILS. So a good question I can not get answered. At High temperature say 72 degrees F. How much faster in flow is a 0 or a 5W synthectic oil compared to a comprable 15W synthetic oil. Are we talking seconds - I doubt it we are talking fractions of a second. We knew we could use 506.01 were 505.01 was required. We knew could use 507 were 505.01 was required. But to understand the oil better. Can 505.01 be used when 506.01 was called for and can you use 507 in place of 506.01.

WRT PD Engine:

Please fill in the blanks/correct me if I'm wrong.

505.01 : Best Soot Control/Suspension in oil

506.01 : Thinner oil. Increased MPG.....Would you go as far as saying this may be a good winter/cold weather oil? Obviously more expensive. Extended OCI (Non-US/Can).

507.00 : ????

justpaddlek1 said:

WRT PD Engine:

Please fill in the blanks/correct me if I'm wrong.

505.01 : Best Soot Control/Suspension in oil

506.01 : Thinner oil. Increased MPG.....Would you go as far as saying this may be a good winter/cold weather oil? Obviously more expensive. Extended OCI (Non-US/Can).

507.00 : ????

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You don't need to worry about 504/507; no cars have ever been sold in NAmerica that require this oil.


Aren't your 505.01/506.01 statments in conflict with one another? Wouldn't the extended drain product offer superior soot handling capability? Is 506.01 is thinner just to offer improved fuel ecomony

dieseldorf said:

You don't need to worry about 504/507; no cars have ever been sold in NAmerica that require this oil.

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Understood that there are none that have required it but several members gave recently recieved letters stating 506.01 and 507.00 are "acceptable" substitutes for 505.01 in a PD so I was wondering what the characteristics/pros-cons of the oil are.

dieseldorf said:

Aren't your 505.01/506.01 statments in conflict with one another? Wouldn't the extended drain product offer superior soot handling capability? Is 506.01 is thinner just to offer improved fuel ecomony

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Not necessarily in conflict as the euro's use ULSD hence reduction in soot and it is less of an issue for them and less of a factor in extended OCI's for them. Soot handling ability of an oil is only one possible characteristic that may/may not contribute to extended usage/OCI.

Dan_Ruddock said:

Nonsense! Cars should be designed to be able to run oil off the local parts store shelf or in other words be idiot proof.

Dan

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Say good-bye to diesels, and direct-injection gassers. With off-the-shelf oil as the standard, then oils will determine our cars of the future. In this scenario, the cars of the future will all be naturally-aspired, EFI, gas-guzzlers. Under this scenario, we will maintain our 21 mpg average for the unforseeable future as we have for the last twenty-five years.

I kind of like 45 mpg running B20, and the prospect of future cars doing even better with lubricative products having to do their part as well.

shaark92 said:

Wasn't VW originally created to design basic transportation for "the people?"

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Yes!

airedad said:

Not to be a smart-alec, but (OK, I can't help it) ... Sorry - I work part of the time in the field of reliability engineering, and we have a very old saying:
Nothing can be made "idiot proof" - because idiots are so creative.
--
Just my US$0.02 worth. Accounting for inflation, this will probably be worth a lot less. And as always, YMMV.

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Murphy's Law says it best with:
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
source:http://www.murphys-laws.com/

justpaddlek1 said:

Understood that there are none that have required it but several members gave recently recieved letters stating 506.01 and 507.00 are "acceptable" substitutes for 505.01 in a PD so I was wondering what the characteristics/pros-cons of the oil are.

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I'll admit it represents the mfr's latest spec. I just don't know if I'd run out and buy it if I had a VE TDi. I wouldn't want to bear the additional cost if I can't find a direct benefit from using it.

Dorschel in Henrietta, NY has switched to 505.1 for TDI oil changes

Being VERY sensitive to the oil that goes in my car due to the fact I have an extended warranty that still has 34k left on it, I noticed that they used a new oil today on my oil change.

Previously, it said "Penzl 5w-40" which is what they were using, it's a 505.00 spec oil.

Now they are using 505.1 from Castrol (has a red TXT on it). I actually had them look up the part number on the computer and then pull a bottle from the back to confirm. I had good reason to check this as early on in the 2002 to 2003 timeframe they used the wrong oil 3 times plus I know of another recent "switch" from a posting.

I know it's ok, but it's nice to see the switch. I think they did it to prevent problems with the '04's to the 06's since more people started having those (IN SPITE OF NYS and their ridiculous following of CARB rules).

I have noticed a LOT more TDI's in this area the last year (see the sightings board for details).

bruce, you mean 505.01, right?

505.1 would be a previously unknown VAG standard

I'm a new TDI owner (06 jetta 1.9 tdi) and want to change my own oil. The only oil I found that looked the part was Luke racing... vw 501/ / / to 505/507 compliant. Is this a suitable oil for my vehicle? I know it specifies 505.01 but is the Luke oil compatible.
Also, I finally ran around until I found a filter. How difficult is it to change this out? This is my first time to do it myself on the VW. I have always, over the last 35 years, changed my own oil (I'm picky about it being done right) and never had an engine go bad. Any instructions would be appreciated! Thanks!
tex

howdy, tex-
take a gander at this here sticky that is near the top of this forum:
"What oil do I use?" READ FIRST BEFORE ASKING

And look in the A5 forum for more info on your specific model.

504.00 507.00 Oil

Direct form the VW Dealer:

p/n GVW-052-195-M2 (1 L Bottle)
VW Bottle - LongLife III 5W30 - not a Castrol Bottle

Was quoted $6.80 Per L from 1stvwparts.com

Spokane Walt said:

Direct form the VW Dealer:

p/n GVW-052-195-M2 (1 L Bottle)
VW Bottle - LongLife III 5W30 - not a Castrol Bottle

Was quoted $6.80 Per L from 1stvwparts.com

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That is the low ash oil for DPF equiped vehicles. (DPF=Diesel Particulate Filter) Required on 06-07 V10 Touaregs (source is TechTip 17-07-33)

TT 17-07-33
2006-2007 V10 Diesel Touareg With Diesel Particulate Filters, Proper Oil Usage Information
These engines require VW oil quality standard VW 504 00 / 507 00 low ash oil. The VW supplied part number for this oil is GVW-052-195-M2.

.
As the 08 Jetta with the 2.0l TDI has a DPF, I suspect this will be the required oil for it as well. Hopefully VW will tell us something when they release the cars. It sucks being the dealer and not knowing when a customer asks.
Oh, and our cost is >$7/l.
Jason

SilverGhost said:

That is the low ash oil for DPF equiped vehicles. (DPF=Diesel Particulate Filter) Required on 06-07 V10 Touaregs (source is TechTip 17-07-33)

TT 17-07-33
2006-2007 V10 Diesel Touareg With Diesel Particulate Filters, Proper Oil Usage Information
...

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Jason- what oil do the pre '06 V10 tdi use? Thanks.

tditom said:

Jason- what oil do the pre '06 V10 tdi use? Thanks.

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I believe they originally called for a 506.01 oil. The TSB's and TechTips come and go and the info is moved around on us. I think since there was only about 500 V10's in '04 that VW was lazy in getting the correct NA specific info out.

All of the V10's I've serviced get 505.01 oil designed for PD engines. And I think the latest TSB groups all the TDI's together and says PD's get 505.01 and non-PD's get 505.00.

17-07-06 Engine Oil, Volkswagen Oil Quality Standard VW 505 01 Requirement
Supersedes TB 17-05-05
The TDI-PD (Pumpe-Düse) engine requires, and must always use, engine oil that conforms to Volkswagen Oil Quality Standard VW 505 01.
Model: All 2004-2006 TDI-PD Vehicles (1.9 BEW, 2.0 BHW, 1.9 BRM); 2004 Touareg TDI-PD (5.0 BKW)
Date: March 7, 2007
Note: this bulletin is also available on ElsaWeb Technical Solutions, see Instance Number 2010419

Jason

Spokane Walt said:

Direct form the VW Dealer:

p/n GVW-052-195-M2 (1 L Bottle)
VW Bottle - LongLife III 5W30 - not a Castrol Bottle

Was quoted $6.80 Per L from 1stvwparts.com

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Impex has had it for quite a while now for slightly cheaper: http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-engoil-long-life-iii-1l-bottle_550703.html

VW "recently" released a new TSB covering 505.01 & 504.00/507.00 oils.

That TSB is better - I wonder why the member was denied permission to use 507 when others were clearly permitted. I would like to see the wording of his letter and theirs.

Updated again as of 2008 January 11, allegedly just to include Castrol Syntec 5W40 on the North American list of 502.00 oils.

wjdell said:

That TSB is better - I wonder why the member was denied permission to use 507 when others were clearly permitted. I would like to see the wording of his letter and theirs.

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My letter was a word for word copy of one posted here and sent to the same people supposedly. No idea why I was refused.

Could you cut and paste it here so we can read it - we would like to see the denial also.

No I can't post it. Desk top had to be reset and wiped and Windows reloaded during a Norton software update with problems. Besides it is not relevant any more. It was long ago now and many more have received letters since that time approving use of these oils.

I have decided to change as well. I will be installing a bypass system soon and plan on switching to VW LongLife III 5W30. My car should be well broken in now, approaching 40k miles. I plan on starting UOA with the install of the bypass filter. I will let those results drive my OCI in the future.

tdijerry said:

vw does use the 505.01 oil in some gas engines here in the states.like all ready said i think vw will use one oil spec some time in the future.

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yep, the audi rs6 uses txt 50501

I just updated my Bentley and clearly states that 2006 - 2007 BRM use only 504.00 507.00. Now in the manual it also states the use of 505.01 for all three years, on the fluids chart for 2005 it is 505.01, but in 2006 and 2007 it clearly states 507. Maybe some one will post it from a screen capture.

wjdell said:

I just updated my Bentley and clearly states that 2006 - 2007 BRM use only 504.00 507.00. Now in the manual it also states the use of 505.01 for all three years, on the fluids chart for 2005 it is 505.01, but in 2006 and 2007 it clearly states 507. Maybe some one will post it from a screen capture.

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I just updated my Bentley too, and you may want to look a little closer. The fluid chart for 2007 you need to page forward to page 5 to get the Jetta BRM listing...and it still says 505.01. The 504/507 is stated on the first page of 2007 - but that is for a BAR or BHK engine (Touareg?) The 2005 and 2006 listings have the BRM on the first page...also say 505.01

I am not saying you can't use 507 for BRM, just saying Bentley does not have proof of that in writing.

It has 505.01 in a dozen places, the whole manual is not updated. - but it clearly states on on my 2006 fluids table. TDI - PD 507 only and on the 2005 table it states 505.01. DD posted other data tables from VW that shows 507.00 is a replacement for 505.01 and 506.01 in all but two applications. There are several letters from VWoA stateing that it does meet the minimum and can be used. To all out there reading this that are using 507 - do not think twice you are safe using 507.00.