Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

I posted my measured spring rates for the Moog springs a few posts up

TDIJetta99 said:

I posted my measured spring rates for the Moog springs a few posts up

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What about the 2 blue and 2 white?

Any taller springs out there?

I was thinking for springs rates in the low 200's. But, how do the softer moog's feel?

Here's what I posted before. Personally I didn't like the ride with the moog springs.. too sloppy in the front. Other people seem to like them though.

TDIJetta99 said:

Small tid-bit of information regarding the Moog springs.. I devised a way here at work to test the spring rate.. The rears (81055) measured at 180lbs/inch, and stand at 13.5" free height. That's stiffer than my old rear springs which measured 140lbs/inch..

The fronts however were drastically different... The moogs (81134) only measured at 125lbs/inch and stand 14" free height.. My old fronts were 2 blue, 2 white and are 170lbs/in.. Didn't measure free height..

I'm currently on the hunt for springs that are near 200lb/in rear and 250lb/in front that don't lower the car 2"... I have a set of Koni Sport springs in the car now that honestly feel softer than my old springs that are 170F/140R..

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Here's a spring rate chart for mk4 fronts.
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss242/N75/ROFLwagens/VW-All-Spring-Rates-1.jpg

Thanks. Nice graphic. So, any alternatives to OEM springs that are in the low 200's spring rate and/or taller height compared to stock?

No idea.. I've been looking for stock height but low-mid 200's for a while.. I'm pretty sure Shine can make whatever you need, I just haven't contacted them yet. I'm hesitant because in my experience trying to order anything custom, someone tells me "that's not what you want". That's when I get angry and the conversation is over.

So shine is the only one? Sounds expensive, especially when "custom".

No cheap alternatives of the 2 blue 2 white?

Just cant believe there aren't any more options. I guess no one wants to stay stock height or lift the car... they all want to ruin a perfectly good chassis by lowering it.

TDIJetta99 said:

No idea.. I've been looking for stock height but low-mid 200's for a while.. I'm pretty sure Shine can make whatever you need, I just haven't contacted them yet. I'm hesitant because in my experience trying to order anything custom, someone tells me "that's not what you want". That's when I get angry and the conversation is over.

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I'm also on the hunt for some springs (rear) that have a rate of 180#-200#. Shine is no longer in business I was hoping the Moogs would be a solution but I don't want added lift in rear. I'd rather keep the back at stock height or just a touch lower to level the car. I have a front set of Shine springs already, nearly impossible to find anybody selling just rears however. Does Moog make a non wagon VR6 spring that has a similar rate with a shorter free height?

Moog shows the same rear springs for all of the mk4's.. Take a sawzall and cut a couple coils off the bottom.. It'll still fit in the lower seat just fine and cutting a coil or three off will effectively increase the rate of the spring.. some aftermarket springs don't have the tapered bottom

Dead end?

TDIJetta99 said:

Moog shows the same rear springs for all of the mk4's.. Take a sawzall and cut a couple coils off the bottom.. It'll still fit in the lower seat just fine and cutting a coil or three off will effectively increase the rate of the spring.. some aftermarket springs don't have the tapered bottom

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That was my initial thought, I wasn't sure if you could lose the taper.
Thanks!

Kristofk said:

So shine is the only one? Sounds expensive, especially when "custom".

No cheap alternatives of the 2 blue 2 white?

Just cant believe there aren't any more options. I guess no one wants to stay stock height or lift the car... they all want to ruin a perfectly good chassis by lowering it.

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Jetta Wagon HD Fronts are 170 lb/in. That seems as close as you are going to get.

My wagon is lifted via spring rate - HD fronts and rears. Works great.

Fix_Until_Broke said:

If you're looking for comfort and to get rid of the bouncy/floaty feeling, leave the OEM springs alone and replace the dampers. Any increase in spring rate (which the moog springs have) will make the ride firmer. No sense in replacing the OEM springs - especially with only 120k on them.

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This thread has been mostly about Jettas and Golfs, good stuff. My NB is currently stock so I intend to raise it about 2" to reduce scrapes, but this thing is stock and it is really firm, lol...as in teeth jarring on certain types of expansion joints, a real BANG sometimes. My wife would drive it more if the, according to her "torturous" ride was more forgiving, lol.

Assuming the springs aren't the culprit (handles just great), how do the oem dampers compare to the TCs, etc? I know how they feel on my Jetta, firmer than stock, but the Jetta is a different ride than the Bug. If I raise the bug a couple inches and use same springs, then I will keep the same length dampers, but what will reduce the firmness in an aftermarket shock? I need her to be getting 49 on the highway, not 24, lol. Thanks.

What about these 250 inlbs springs? Would they work? or different height/dimensions?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/eib-08002500250/overview/

theres more at this search heading:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...rings/coil-over-spring-rate-lbs-in/250-lbs-in

more length too!

those are for coil-overs.. they aren't going to work on stock style struts very well at all

Alright I'm finally getting close to ordering the parts, I have a good idea of all the parts I want.

Moog springs, lower spring rate means more travel? Would be good for my application.
All related hardware for a refresh, there's a kit plus acouple things.
MetalNerd 2" pucks; if they had the 3" I may do that.

For struts/shocks I'm alittle confused, or maybe I just don't want to spend all that much money without knowing for a fact it's worth it.

Bilstein HDs is my original plan but nearly $700, ***.....
Second choice is the Bilstein TCs mostly love them as well, some don't care for them, but what's the best bang for MY buck????


I drive 80% like normal people. I often spend times on wildlife refuge poorly maintained "roads"(poorly maintained dirt path) as well as I spend a ton of time on the beach(not neccassary for a decision I think) I do drive many miles and encounter lots on things on te road, the lift is to help clear the semi tires, or stumps on the trail. (no high speeds off road, second gear idle +-)

So any input?
Bilstein HD, or TC????


Has there been any mention of upgrading sway bars? I've done alil searching with no luck, but I hadn't tried hard. Also have seen mention of removing the front sway bar, haven't read into the purpose but I will be researching that, so that leaves does anyone upgrade their rear?

Read the "What is Handling" thread to make your own educated decision on swaybars (and all the rest of the suspension components including a lift and spring rates). It's a good technical read.

Regarding dampers, I chose the Koni FSD's and have been very happy with them. Firm but never harsh on bumps and good road manners in curves/corners/quick maneuvers. That said, the only other comparison I have is stock dampers at 170k miles so take that for what it's worth.

Do the original sway bars "wear out?" would the original have the same characteristic as one of exact same specs but brand new compared to 230,000 miles?
I'll definitly give that thread a good read.

Not really - since both front and rear are torsion type, they're either good (in one piece) or not (in two pieces). Insure all your bushings/end links/mounting points/etc are solid

Fix_Until_Broke said:

Not really - since both front and rear are torsion type, they're either good (in one piece) or not (in two pieces). Insure all your bushings/end links/mounting points/etc are solid

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All Bushings and such will be replaced that is why I'm asking about the sway bar, if I'm doing 90% of the suspension I may as well replace the sways too if they're a wear item. But it sounds like they should be fine probably.

I'll do some reading and make a better educated decision.

TDIJetta99 said:

Here's what I posted before. Personally I didn't like the ride with the moog springs.. too sloppy in the front. Other people seem to like them though.

Here's a spring rate chart for mk4 fronts.
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss242/N75/ROFLwagens/VW-All-Spring-Rates-1.jpg

Click to expand...

Wow, just the kind of thing I've been looking for... Except for it looking like it only covers up to Mark IV cars. (I'm on my tablet, hard to read that second one) Do you (or anyone) have this kind of info for the later cars? Does anyone know if VW uses the same color code for all MY's?

It would be great to know where my stock ones start, and what a set of TDI Cup stock springs that I have the "dot numbers" for are, to compare with aftermarket, etc...

It seems to only apply to MK4 fronts.. I haven't found anything for the mk4 rears or any other body styles for that matter..

OK, so it seems like I am going to go in this direction:

Moog Front and rears from RockAuto

Bilstein TC front and rear

Metalnerd 2" lift

Spacers for front (stacked 2 high)

Winter tire setup is going to be 205/70/15 on stock steelies


My current ride height is stock:

Front sits at an unloaded height of 26.5"

Rear unloaded is 27.75"

Judging by other setups, I should be somewhere in the 29-30" ground to fender clearance correct?

And I just want to verify the Bilstein set part number-VNE4575_BNE2917

Check Amazon for current prices and compare to RockAuto. Even with shipping, it was cheaper for me last year.

Partsgeek had the springs for the best shipped price ($80.xx)

Boraparts for struts, install kit and bolts.

I also want the Evo skid plate with side covers but dont have the extra monies at the moment.

G Men 08 said:

OK, so it seems like I am going to go in this direction:

Moog Front and rears from RockAuto

Bilstein TC front and rear

Metalnerd 2" lift

Spacers for front (stacked 2 high)

Winter tire setup is going to be 205/70/15 on stock steelies


My current ride height is stock:

Front sits at an unloaded height of 26.5"

Rear unloaded is 27.75"

Judging by other setups, I should be somewhere in the 29-30" ground to fender clearance correct?

And I just want to verify the Bilstein set part number-VNE4575_BNE2917

Click to expand...

You can run 205/70/15's on stock suspension.

May as well go with 205/75's or 215/75's if you're looking to get taller.

Already ordered a set of them. Great Price, can't complain.

G Men 08 said:

OK, so it seems like I am going to go in this direction:

Moog Front and rears from RockAuto

Bilstein TC front and rear

Metalnerd 2" lift

Spacers for front (stacked 2 high)

Winter tire setup is going to be 205/70/15 on stock steelies


My current ride height is stock:

Front sits at an unloaded height of 26.5"

Rear unloaded is 27.75"

Judging by other setups, I should be somewhere in the 29-30" ground to fender clearance correct?

And I just want to verify the Bilstein set part number-VNE4575_BNE2917

Click to expand...

Don't forget upper strut bushings and bearings. Almost 2 years out and I'm replacing a cranky upper strut bearing. I just reused, but should have replaced. Parts on order.

205/70/15s are going to be a joke. I've got 205/75/15s and I want taller wider. I'm sure you'll want the same.

Oh check your lower control arm bushings. Any Cracks? Replace.

I suppose I should have looked into the height of the tire, it is only about 1.32" difference in diameter so just over a half an inch taller ride height. Width isn't a huge concern because the thinner the tire, the more it will cut through the snow (within reason)

WHat sort of mileage drop did you see when you raised your car, and put bigger tires on it?

G Men 08 said:

WHat sort of mileage drop did you see when you raised your car, and put bigger tires on it?

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No idea really, its not a big concern to me. I use to get in the 1000-1100 kilometer range. Now I'm in the 900+ range.