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Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old July 28th, 2018, 09:33   #46
Cuzoe
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I would be lying if I said it wasn't completely for looks. The only action my brakes see is when one of the numerous magnificent Los Angeles drivers pulls out or abruptly changes lanes in front of me. As far as stock brakes (relative to the performance level of the vehicle) are concerned these might be the best I've ever had.

But man do they look inadequate inside Neuspeed RSE05s... don't even glance at the rears, can barely see them when I don't have my glasses on, haha.

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Old September 11th, 2018, 16:07   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adjat84th View Post
...The offset IS different (78mm vs 80mm), but it sounds like they take off enough for the widest offset and if you have less, you just use a spacer or two to get the caliper centered over the rotor...
Update on my Rotorlabs kit after attempted install today. Your theory was right on the money.

To begin with I am in no way talking down about Rob and/or Rotorlabs. This just comes with the territory of being the first (to my knowledge) to try one of his kits on stock Mk7 Golf TDI steel knuckles. Unfortunately, I need a little more taken off the mounting tabs on my 17z kit. As adjat84th theorized, taking off "too much" can be fixed with appropriately sized spacers but too little taken off means they won't bolt up.

The passenger side fit although the rotor is just slightly off center (not enough to matter in all likelihood, maybe 1mm). We were not able to bolt the driver side on. The mounting tab is too thick. From our measurements we need about 2.5mm machined down. As they are, the outboard "nubs" make contact with the rotor before it can be bolted down flush with the knuckle.

Although the shop has some equipment they are not a machine shop so we opted not to try and mill it down ourselves. I have already reached out to Rob at Rotorlabs and will make arrangements to have them milled down a little more.

Pictures to be added from my phone using Tapatalk, it's easier there, haha.

Both pictures are looking forward at the bottom of the passenger caliper. It fits but the outboard knobs are slightly closer than the inboard. The remedy for this is to mill more off the mounting tabs. On the driver side (not pictured) the outboard knobs contact the rotor before the caliper is bolted flush to the knuckle. Milling of the mounting tabs effectively moves the caliper outboard. And as adjat84th stated, an appropriately-sized spacer can be added to bring me caliper inboard if a little too much is milled off.

Last edited by Cuzoe; September 11th, 2018 at 16:29. Reason: Pictures
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Old September 11th, 2018, 19:07   #48
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Response to myself, after talking with Rob for a few minutes. He suggested a few things that can cause the issue we saw.

1) Damaged hub from hitting a pothole/curb or some type of accident. If it was significant it should show in strange pad wear but a minor problem may be hidden by floating calipers and now appears with fixed ones. Not likely my problem as I am the first owner and avoid or slow down for potholes. My wife has driven maybe 300 miles in 2 years and she's more paranoid about the car than I am.

2) Difference in hub (from side to side), possibly replacing a wheel bearing, axle, axle nut when doing some suspension work. Also not likely my issue, car was bought new and has had no work beyond a 10k service.

3) What I was calling "nubs" are the pad retention pins/slides could be uneven. This made perfect sense to my mechanic and I after thinking about what we observed. We measured the mounting tabs (right after I posted) and found they were within .5mm all around. This doesn't jive with needing a different amount milled from the driver and passenger side.

Soooo... per Rob's suggestion we looked at those pad retention pins, with the naked eye we couldn't really see any issues. But we put a flat edge across the top of them (the same as the rotor face would be) and it wasn't flush. We couldn't see this with the caliper mounted. The pins are not exactly the same length. Out of the 8 pins the biggest difference overerall is about 4mm, and both outboard on the driver side (that did not fit) were about 3mm longer than the outboard on the passenger side (that did fit).

The solution is to grind the offending pins down with a carbide wheel. Rob says we can probably grind 5-6mm without causing issues. It looks like even more could be taken off to us, especially since I have no intention of wearing the pads down to nothing (where they would need the full length of those pins), these pads are under $50 a set after all. We need at MOST 4mm on the longest pin for these to bolt up.

My shop is going to grind down the longest of the pins. In the mean time I need to order wheel spacers. I'm running Neuspeed RSE05s, 17x8 et45. Diameter wise the fit is perfect. The RSE05s have a BBK friendly spoke design, but not brakes this bag, haha. I think 5mm spacers will clear but I want them to be hub-centric. I want to keep my meaty tires too so fender screw mod is in my future if I have to go 8-10mm.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 19:12   #49
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Thanks for the update!
I recall Rob saying that those pins occasionally need grinding. Sounds like the calipers bolt right up perfectly if the pins are correct then?

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Old September 11th, 2018, 23:54   #50
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Yes they certainly do. They look great behind the wheels too (while being held up). We could see that the spokes were going to hit the faces and didn't want to damage them. If I had spacers probably could have ground down those pins and finished the install today. Instead got the stock brakes put back on while I called Rob.

Rob sent a spare set of decals and touch-up paint with the kit too, I have no complaints. Just want to get them mounted. Ordered 8mm H&R hub centric spacers and longer bolts tonight.

Any suggestion on treating the rotor hubs? I hate how rusty they get, really stands out with open design black wheels.
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Old November 8th, 2018, 15:15   #51
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You running these brakes yet??
I know Rob is running behind due to personal issues, so mine are taking a bit longer.
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Old November 18th, 2018, 12:25   #52
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Not yet sadly. Long story short is didn't have the hardware for spacers so couldn't get them mounted. Some time went by then the wife and I bought our first home. My car budget and car time has been redirected, and probably will be for the next couple months.

Short story long, per Rob's suggestion we took a carbide bit to the pad guide pins and took a couple mil off which lets them fit without any chance of contacting the rotors. Still needed 10mm spacers to clear the RSE05s. The shop had the spacers but only ball seat extended length lug bolts, the Neuspeeds are conical (running factory bolts currently).

The shop is almost 2 hours away. I wanted to let the H&Rs settle so I could decide if I want to keep them on before I went back so I could get everything done at once. Handling is a good bit better but with the Los Angeles roads it's too low for me (or I'm getting old, haha). The ride leaves something to be desired but that's understandable with stock dampers under shorter springs. The curve of my wheels/tires match the arches better at stock height, and I want to do side skirts and a front lip so stock springs are going back on unless I can find something that is stiffer but at the same height (MSS kit maybe, but $$$).

Then we bought a home, I got a promotion at work that for the time being means more hours, and my 10 year old furniture (which was fine in our apartment) doesn't really cut it in our new place so car money has gone that direction. And I decided to go back to school full-time. The car gets a weekly wash but that's about it lately. I don't see the brakes going on before January.

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Old January 11th, 2019, 10:30   #53
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17z kit and upgraded master cylinder scheduled to be installed tomorrow, GTI-PP rears (tentatively) as well.

The e-brake cable has to be re-routed (the PP caliper has it opposite of the stock caliper, top/bottom, can't remember which). It also requires longer brake lines which I already have.

I'm going quiet-cast pads in the rear as well.

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Old January 13th, 2019, 10:46   #54
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Good news, meh news, bad news post:

Good news... 17z kit is installed, with MK4 R32 brake lines (length was perfect). Brakes look huge under my 17" wheels.

Meh news... The driver side is slightly different than the passenger side, the calipers is not quite centered over the rotor. I don't know if this is due to the rotor, the caliper, or my wheel hub. The solution that is "easiest" is to mil the mounting tab down 1-2mm. There is ever so slight drag on that wheel when turned by hand from the outboard pad.

I have the Bosch quietcast pads currently. I'm going to pull them out and measure them with some calipers then go to a couple auto parts stores and measure the pads that they have that will fit these breaks. I realize that expected pad thickness should be the same on all pads made for these brakes but even one mil difference will be enough for clearance. This is a band-aid fix and will result in uneven pad wear over the long-term but my commute is less than 5 miles (recently moved). And I only drive the car when it's too cold to ride my bike to work.

Bad news... I'm only calling this part bad news because it didn't work out as expected but it's not a huge deal. The brake master cylinder will also require replacement of the brake booster. This doesn't jive with what was pulled up at the dealer which said the brake booster was the same for Golf/GTI/R. I provided the dealer with my VIN but maybe they didn't use it and instead just chose 2015 TDI. When I do that I get the same booster part number across all of the golf variants but the actual booster on my car does not match that part number.

The not so bad part is my brake pedal feels the same. But this is also with brand new pads on the Brembos so it's not having to push very much fluid. I would guess that on the second half of the pad life brake pedal feel will become more of an issue. I plan to get the booster but it's not critical right away.



As for the power pack rear brakes... They will bolt on. E-brake cable has to be rerouted slightly, bypassing one of the mounting clips on the torsion beam but not anywhere that will cause a problem. We verified this through the full torsion beam range of motion. The line won't make contact with anything. However, last brake line from the hardline to the caliper is too short. We measure that it needs 2" to be okay but 3" is preferable.

All of this confirms what a user on another forum found when putting power pack brakes on his TDI. He had custom length lines made. In fact I bought what were supposed to be custom length lines from him back when he did his install. Turns out these lines are the exact same length as the stock ones. He's not very active but I reached out to him to see if he mistakenly sent me the wrong ones. I'm only out 40 bucks even if he doesn't respond but I will have to get lines made.

Only one pic for now, I'll add more later. You may notice my wheel gap. Took the H&R springs off and put my stock springs back on with the 034 Motorsports fixed camber mounts. Was not a fan of the ride quality with the lowering springs and stock dampers. I realize this could be remedied with proper dampers. when the time comes I replace the stock dampers with bilstein's for stock ride height. The H&R's aren't that low but I was still scraping the front here in Los Angeles. And that's without the front lip that I have in my garage to be installed. Camber mount impressions will come after a few hundred miles.

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Last edited by Cuzoe; January 13th, 2019 at 12:12.
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Old January 13th, 2019, 11:23   #55
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Damn, those are some massive calipers! Yeah, that fender gap seems at odds with the big brake look. I really like your rims, but I'm surprised you're not riding on 18's or 19's with those brakes. I think you should hit the track at least once so you can claim more than purely cosmetic motivation .
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Old January 13th, 2019, 12:09   #56
Cuzoe
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The wheel gap is certainly excessive, haha. I need to look back through the lowering spring threads. I kind of recall there being some springs that sit somewhere in between the H&Rs and stock for height, maybe VWRs. In any case, I'll re-attack that when it's time to replace the stock dampers.

Once I post a picture of the full car you all will see the calipers look even more ridiculous when compared to the stock rears. Hopefully get the longer brake lines made up in the next week so I can remedy that with the power pack calipers and 310mm rotors in the rear (fronts are 330mm for reference).

I'm mulling over the hybrid CR190 from xman turbos (mentioned by adjat84th in a thread in the power enhancements section). That would provide some Go to a company all of my Show, lol. I'm Kerma tuned now which is plenty for me honestly but more always sounds better. I'm in California so I need to keep my emissions equipment, otherwise I would consider one of the darkside development kits that's in testing.

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Old January 14th, 2019, 16:17   #57
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Still sub'd for updates on performance improvements you might note. With larger dia. rotors it should have better braking through leverage alone. I am interested in the 18Z kit for my '15 Passat and hoping it'll fit under the 18" OEM wheels.....some for looks but again, I am in for more braking performance and pedal feel (realize master may need to be upgraded as well for balance......bigger caliper vol requires more fluid).
Have always wondered what was offered from VAG's other lines that would bolt up to this platform? I will take a look at the above info regarding the 340mm TTS and TTRS calipers....I have to look further into that.
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Old January 14th, 2019, 19:22   #58
Cuzoe
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It is currently raining in Los Angeles (so people have forgotten how to drive) but I hit the brakes pretty hard today as someone abruptly cut into my lane to avoid some "deep" water. Keeping in mind that I was only going somewhere between 15 and 20, the amount of pedal I gave it would have slowed me down before and I engaged the seat belt safety catch today .

I still plan to upgrade my master cylinder (with the brake booster as I mentioned before). But coming from pads with ~20,000 miles on stock brakes to new pads on the 17z leaves the pedal feeling about the same. As these pads wear down that will undoubtedly change but I'll have the upgraded master installed when I install the PP rear brakes (end of the month tentatively).

FWIW if performance is your ultimate motivation the 17z has more piston area than the 18z despite the caliper itself being larger. There is probably some trade off with heat dissipation on the smaller 330mm rotors with the 17z vs the 345mm on the 18z. This may be negated by the 345mm rotor being slightly heavier though. I don't know how the two compare fitment wise with regards to wheel spoke design. The 18z will not fit under 17" wheels due to barrel width, obviously. The Neuspeed RSE05s that I am running are very BBK friendly and still needed spacers (went with 10mm but 5 would have cleared).

The following quoted from user v8a6 over on audizine: 18z piston size are 30/34/38mm... 17z piston size are 34/36/38mm... So, the 17z have a larger overall piston area and will take more brake travel to push (although in reality you probably wouldnt notice a difference between the two)

Also while I'm here, nothing performance wise to note about the 034 Motorsports camber plates (only had them on a day) but they make very slight "rubber on metal" rubbing noises when turning at low speed. I suppose an install mistake is possible but they are coming back off. I am unwilling to live with these kind of noises in my Mk7 (I have the Mk4 for that).

Last edited by Cuzoe; January 14th, 2019 at 19:27.
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Old January 14th, 2019, 19:59   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuzoe View Post
It is currently raining in Los Angeles (so people have forgotten how to drive) but I hit the brakes pretty hard today as someone abruptly cut into my lane to avoid some "deep" water. Keeping in mind that I was only going somewhere between 15 and 20, the amount of pedal I gave it would have slowed me down before and I engaged the seat belt safety catch today .
That's probably more to do with having fresh brake fluid, bleed, and thicker pads. I was down in Ft. Myers with my uncle last week- we rented a brand new Infiniti QX30 to drive around, and the brand new brakes were really tight. It took my uncle quite awhile to adjust.
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Old January 15th, 2019, 05:49   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuzoe View Post

The following quoted from user v8a6 over on audizine: 18z piston size are 30/34/38mm... 17z piston size are 34/36/38mm... So, the 17z have a larger overall piston area and will take more brake travel to push (although in reality you probably wouldnt notice a difference between the two)
Yes, I understand more caliper piston volume will require more fluid transfer. I am surprised your brake pedal travel feels the same and you don't have a lower pedal? I don't know the volume of the stock TDI caliper single pistons, so I can't use that comparison. You've probably upset the OEM "calibration" with brake fluid vol. needed when the brakes are applied, but agreed you'll get that back when you match your new calipers up with the proper master cyl that has the correct fluid displacement ratios. Your pedal travel really shouldn't change notably with pad/rotor wear as the pad generally retains the same pad/rotor clearance through it's life span.

In my case, if I read Rob's info correctly, the 18Z doesn't require modifications to install onto the '15 Passat platform. I forget exactly what it was as I would have to go back and read it again. I would like to keep my OEM 18" Bristols as I like the style enough so that is also a determining factor with which brake upgrade to go for. And I am with you, BBK's is about improving the "look" but I also want to have a stronger braking feel. If the wheels weren't so "open" and exposed the brake rotors so much (or lack of rotor....LOL) I probably wouldn't bother.

On my '06 Jetta TDI I swapped in GLI front (312mm) and rear rotors (27x?), as they were larger than the TDI's but used the same calipers (different caliper stands needed F&R obviously). I had 17" VW CC replicas on it which hid much of the "undersized" braking components. I chuckle when I see todays youth put 18-20" open style wheels onto something to look racy and you see the tiny baking systems...or worse, 7" brake drums on the rear...Toy Corrola's etc.
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