so what is it like with 11mm pump and fat injectors?

I've had the 11 mm in twice; both times the car was in identical configuration:
Timing set to middle of graph, 62/110?, .205s, 2.5 inch euro cat downpipe, chip, 11mm pump, K&N filter, power server (last year's version without cetane).

The first time I was running on plain cheap pump gas, power was very good, but the smoke was BAD, real bad. I had the stock VNT setting. Even slow acceleration would produce gobs of smoke. It felt stronger than all of the above and the high pressure A4 10 mm pump but not LOADs stronger. The setup lasted about a month and there was just too much smoke in all modes of operations. It was summer so temps were in the 100s.

This time I'm using the above with -1 VNT twist, the newer power serve with cetane boost, Texaco premium diesel, D'Geek short shifter and D'Geek cooler.

I can say smoke it way down, I no longer have the 1/4 throttle smoke, I have to go 1/2 throttle or more to have smoke. Throttle response in all gears is unbelievable, just a slight pressure and she is moving. 1/2 throttle in first gear can break em loose. When it is cold out I can slip the clutch with as little as 1/4 throttle in 4th or 5th,

How does it rev? It revs like a gasser, no really it does, I shift at 4500 rpm and by the time it is said and done the tac is close to or over 5000 rpm, Pre 11mm pump the car would lay down after say 3800 rpm, this one pulls no problem to and past red line, if you are not looking at the tac you will overshoot the redline by a large margin.

Boost, pre pump it was the typical Upsolute with .205s, I've have boost overshoot and then it would settle for a nice 18 PSI to about 3700 rpm or so and decline to 14 to 16 PSI at 4500 rpm, it would never keep a steady 18 PSI to redline.

Now, I have bout the same or a little more overshoot and it settles to the 18 PSI or so, but get this: boost rises to about 19.5 PSI and stays that way as long as I want to hold it, which is up to and past redline. I'm going to try -2 VNT just to keep overshoot to a minimal.

Smoke at WOT is heavy and it is black, leaving no doubt that this is a diesel. At least is NOT all the time under all conditions.

As this is Texas, I think smoke will be back big time during summer heat. My next plan is to up the intercooler, I would like to know if somebody can get me a good boy price for the left side TT intercooler, the hoses from one to the other, I of course don't need the manifold, unless somebody wants to send me the SDI one which should be no problem plumbing into the second intercooler.

http://store6.yimg.com/I/machvw_1677_5417124
http://www.machvw.com/golivadsidin.html

I wanted a Forced performance cooler, but after some thought, I figure I need a really big intercooler. Greddy has also advertised a large front mounted intercooler and this should free up a bunch of stock intercoolers from 1.8T and maybe even a few TDIs.

Overall I'm happy with the upgrade. I've given up on the warranty and I've fixed all the broken stuff including: glove box, arm rest, cup holder, water pump, tensioner, serpentine belt, serpentine belt tensioner. Thanks to D'Geek, he that good. I need a clutch but gotta pay for lots of stuff including income tax coming up and a 6 week to Japan / Hawaii.

http://www.dieselgeek.com/

11mm follow up report.

I thought I had listed ALL the mods between this itineration of ll mm pump and last years. I had speculated that the cool weather and the premium gas had alleviated the smoke issue. I further went to speculate on what kind of intercooler upgrade to go to so my car would be perfect when warm weather hits and intercooler efficacies plunge.

Well I forgot one thing, before I got into that let me say my 11mm pump is unusual; it came with the correct size fuel fittings on the rear of the pump, so when other guys started upgrading to 11mm pump I was surprised that the NorthAmerican 11 mm pump came with smaller fittings, I got no clue where the pump came from. The part number shows it to be a 11mm pump. Second strange thing about my pump is that I never had an idle problem. Most if not all M5 guys that went to fat injectors and 11mm pump had BAD idle. Leading to the hammer mod.

The thing I forgot was that I did the "hammer mod" on my pump to get the idle like stock, not that it was bad, it was a little rough, sort of like a 1K Beer TB. So I was thinking maybe the lack or great lessening of smoke was due to the "hammer mod" and had nothing to do with temperature or fuel.

Today was in the mid to high 70s, I ran the A/C all day in Austin. Before I setout I did a second "hammer mod" . I had scribed the pump in many places, total movement since bone stock is less than 1/32nd of an inch, probably less than 1/50 of an inch, It moved so little with the second "hammer mod" I was going to whack it again, but thought I'd better test first.

Well power is down, no doubt about it. Is it more powerful than the stock high pressure 10mm pump? Maybe, we are talking 10 HP so top end WOT it feels just a hair faster. Bottom end and midrange power is still there, I can and did get wheel spin with as little as 1/4 to 1/2 throttle in first gear.

Boost is no longer strange, I was going to do the -1.5 VNT as my boost before would go into the low 20s (upto 24 PSI), drop to 18 and then rise to 19.5 PSI, strange like the brain was over-pulling back boost, and then said well, the motor could really use a little. Now with no fooling with the VNT (still at -1 VNT). Boost goes to about 22 PSI and then settles to 20 PSI upto 3700 rpm or so and then drops to 16, 17, or 18 PSI depending on the gear. This is a more "normal" boost curve.

Smoke: What smoke? I could get NO smoke all day, all gears, no visible smoke out the back. I had to wait till night. At night I could get smoke only in first, only at 3/4 to WOT and only the kind of smoke that hangs about a foot or two off the ground. You know like stock. I could see no smoke at all in higher gears at WOT under the street lights.

Idle: my idle now is as good or better than bone stock. Noise: the idle is as quite or quieter than bone stock.
Conclusions: minimal adjustments using the "hammer mod" can lead to surprising results. Such minor oversights by me lead to a wrong conclusion (the need for a good intercooler and good fuel to have zero smoke). Don't know about the fuel, but the stock intercooler seems to be holding its own. I'd try cheap fuel, but Premium is only a few cents more and Texas is going to high cetane, low sulfur stuff by May and I have no doubt that it maybe being produced now. Don't know one way or the other so don't beat me up over it.

Corollary conclusions: I test drove several TDIs on many occasions, my car always felt stronger than others but the idle was always IMO a little poorer. Throttle response also seemed better on my car. IMO, my stock 10mm pump left the factory adjusted a slight bit to the rich side vs some guys that may have been on the lean side. A very small difference leads to HUGE changes in idle, and power. I'm not suggesting people fool with their pump as even a slight tap in the wrong direction will lead the motor to run WILD and boom, bad boom.

This may also be a partial reason my car always seem to have much worst boost overshoot, nothing to do with the VNT adjustment, it has to do with a rich pump. So chipping and fat injectors on a rich pump seems to add more overshoot. Just a hunch. I'm not about to "hammer mod" my stock pump, even though the idle did suck bone stock.

On to the intercoolers.
The dual intercoolers for the most part will not work. Maybe on a race car running the SDI manifold, cutting down on hose length. On my TDI the piping alone would add 1/2 second spool time at full turbo flow. This will drop MPGs IMO. Though you may want to argue that it will soften the turbo surge and keep the wheel out of the low speed surge lines. Still 1/2 second it huge on a stock or near stock street motor. Especially one that is over 3000 lbs.

Second thing is the pressure drop on the stock intercooler is 1.5 PSI, very high for such a small cooler (measurement per forced performance) . Stacking two together will lead to 3 PSI drop (not really), this is OK on a high performance turbo but it is VERY bad on a everyday street motor. Especially one that is wheel limited. As an aside, for all the guys talking about max boost, remember the turbo is measured at the outlet to determine the maps, and when we talk boost we are talking after the intercooler and a lot of hose. Also the maps are done with standard pressure of 1 bar at the inlet, and we know the TDI can show drops as high as 1.5 PSI at the inlet. All in all leading me to believe that any type of dual intercooler will lead to stock wheel failure. Just IMO.

So either go with a PD150 or Greddy or ABT huge front mounted job and live with a spool / MPG drop or keep the stock cooler and go for water spray cooling on the intercool. This will work for me as I intended to use WOT less than once a week. But guys like Mickey that need the power and the boost, water spray isn't gonna cut it.

The Forced cooler is NOT a direct bolt in BTW. It is close but the angles of the inlet / outlet on the 1.8T are slightly different. I'm sure a few pipes, some silicon hose could fix that. It is made only for Jetta / Golf. Same goes for the Forced lower intercooler hose, hey even the stock 1.8T hose looks much bigger than the TDI, I wonder if 1.8T guys would give us their old hoses?

Overall, right now, I'm very happy with the power, torque, drivability and now smoke level of the TDI. I would also venture to guess outside the massive tire spin, the dealer would have no idea he was dealing with a modified TDI. Well really with one more hammer whack, I would assume my TDI would be like stock all the way around, except with a much smoother and quieter idle.

Talking about the ultimate box adjustment, from wild cam idle, power and heavy smoke, to a fine responsive machine to bone stock performance all within 1/32nd of an inch.

The first time I was running on plain cheap pump gas, power was very good, but the smoke was BAD, real bad.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well there's your problem, right there. (Anybody else see it?)

-mickey

Oldman, I'm an eye doctor in the Houston area. If you continue to use gas in your tdi gimme a call...I think I can fix you up!!

yeah I went to the "gas" station today and some guys on the wall drinking beer, kept looking at me while I filled my gasser up with diesel, I sort of wish I had the big lumpy idle and smoke, for sure they would think, hey there's a guy that just killed his car, yuk yuk.

My kids call it "stinky gas" vs regular gas. Go figure the oldlady has a hand in that somewhere.

The question is, with that "downgrade" tweaking you made to the 11mm pump, do you think it´s still worth the major $$ for the power it offers and the increased smokiness ?

Maybe some (interior) tweaking on the 10mm pump is possible and results are not that far off..just a thought..

the 11mm pump is not worth it for a car concerned with only power, especially cheap power. Your are going to get more bang for the buck doing chip, .216s, then something I would not do a TB.
The "bang" might cost you bucks in the long run.

But read on:
If ultimate power is what your are after I would think the 11mm pump is going to be part of that package.

If the max power, response, with minimal smoke I would think the 11mm pump is going to part of that package. Power IS up compared to smoke with the 11mm pump. Throttle response, mid range torque is up with 11mm pump. Tire smoking power can be had at minimal throttle with the 11mm pump. Top end power as stated above is the same or a tad bit better with the 11mm pump but smoke is ZERO compared to the 10 mm pump (I have the high pressure 10 mm at that).

For biodiesel and MPG guys, I would think the 11mm pump will be part of the package. I'm taking MPG readings now.

If bang for the dollar is what you are after, this has to be far down on the list.

I should add that the 11mm pump is safe power IMO. Power being added by increasing the fuel delivery vs lengthening the window or advancing the timing. Power made the right way is always going to be more expensive. The only mods that do this are:
fat injectors, 11 mm pump or maybe the high pressure 10 mm pump for the A3 guys.

VW does the same thing, 90 to 110, they do fat injectors, 110 to 115 HP PD, more pressure, 115 PD to 150 PD more pressure. They don't lengthen nor advance the injection window.

I consider only correct builds. Not that I don't try things like the Beer TB. To me a chip already pushes the injection window to the limit. All other safe power will be found with injectors and or pumps. Of course it would be "nice" to find power with pumping loss mods: intercooler tubes, air intakes, exhaust systems. This is power the correct way, unfortunately I have found none. Not that I've tried every possible setup. But maybe at the GTC?

Since these pumps can last 100,000+ miles no problem. I thought it worth my while as I'm the type that needs to play with all the toys. This 11mm pump lets me play and it will let me play with MPG as well as biodiesel using the MAX possible injection pressure, same thing VW does.

If you really want to know the truth, just save your money and wait for the PD to come within 2 years?. Texas is going to low sulfur, high cetane fuel is 2 months. I'm already for the 175 HP, 4 valve TDI. There are guys selling complete PD engines and 6 speeds already. I got my heart set on a Benz. So I don't think I'm going to toss to much more into the Jetta.

Originally posted by Oldman:
Texas is going to low sulfur, high cetane fuel is 2 months. I'm already for the 175 HP, 4 valve TDI. There are guys selling complete PD engines and 6 speeds already.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lest noone be confused; Texas will be getting higher cetane and lower aromatic diesel fuel in 2 months. This is taken from a .pdf document at the TNRCC website.

To comply with the state LED regulations, diesel fuel producers and importers
must ensure diesel fuel distributed to the LED fuel zone meets the specifications stated in these rules. The rules require that diesel fuel produced for delivery and ultimate sale to the consumer in the affected area does not exceed 500 parts per million (ppm) sulfur, must contain less than 10% by volume of aromatic hydrocarbons, and must have a cetane number of 48 or greater.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think we're all going to have to be patient for our PD-150s, BMW 330Ds, and MB 320 CDIs!

If the Benz had a diesel in their C class like in europe, I'd already have it.

BTW, I took the car to SanAntonio today, lots of 75+ MPH lots of passing, this car is great. I really am happy with the final outcome.

Now onto the poor stereo and the float suspension. I'll be hanging on other list for a while.

If you really want to know the truth, just save your money and wait for the PD to come within 2 years?. Texas is going to low sulfur, high cetane fuel is 2 months. I'm already for the 175 HP, 4 valve TDI.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Start saving up! I wouldn´t dare to imagine how such a TDI would end up in your hands..
You could also think about the Bimmer 330d (3.0 6 in line - 190hp/400Nm - 144mph / 7.0sec 0-60mph STOCK), it´s also a great diesel. It would be my choice if i had the $$.

PS- I´m already saving up for the new Seat Ibiza 6 gear PD130. It weights at a honest 2.600lbs (compared to mine at 2.250lbs) and can be tuned up to 190hp/400Nm.