Sound Off on Current Diesel Price

MrErlo

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$3.69

trapperkeeper said:
RUL = $2.05
D2 LSD = $2.69

Thus the reason that I will start driving my truck again.
with that price for gasoline, if you were getting a modest 45mpg with your TDI and a very generous 25mpg with a generic truck, it will continue to be cheaper and better for the environment (as well as our national security) until D2 costs $3.69 per gallon.

They are making HUGE profits on diesel for no reason other than they can since there is not enough passenger diesel owners to do anything about it.
http://genomicsgtl.energy.gov/biofuels/transportation.shtml

140 million gallons of gasoline and 40 million gallons of diesel, almost all of it being used by the trucking industry. i highly doubt that the trucking industry, and by extension businesses everywhere, would stand idly by and allow themselves to be gouged.
 

slacker

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Cincinnati, OH
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2006.5 Jetta TDI
North Cincinnati area on 10/25/06

BP station
D2 ULSD $ 2.59/gal
RUL $2.06/gal

Still cheaper over the long haul, since I only fill up every 10-11 days instead of every 6 or 7 in my previous non-diesel auto.
 

PDJetta

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justpaddlek1 said:
$2.69! ACK!

BP in Edgewater is $2.57 and the cheap station by Lee Airport is $2.54
At an Exxon in McLean, VA today: RUL 2.04, D2 $2.78

--Nate
 

PDJetta

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The Worst spread I have seen is at a Shell in Fairfax, VA at Prosperity Ave and Rt. 236. RUL $2.14 and D2 $3.09!:eek:

I get D2 for $2.55 at a no-name station off of Rt. 1 and the Fairfax County Parkway.

--Nate
 

trapperkeeper

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$2.06/gal RUL vs. $2.69/gal D2 LSD is a 29% cost adder for the diesel. Add another $.10/gal to run standyne or PS for better lubricity and anti-gel, etc and that makes it $2.09 RUL vs. $2.79 D2 LSD which is an overall 33.5% premium to run diesel. In the Golf gasser vs. Gold TDI discussion, lets say that the gasser = 32MPG overall and the TDI = 45mpg overall (pretty much what I have averaged over 13K miles taking summer and winter driving into account). So the TDI advantage in MPG is 40%. The net is that the higher cost of diesel in VT costs me 33.5% MORE to run the TDI for a savings of 40% so operating costs (maint aside) are in favor of the TDI by a measley 6.5%. But the TDI also costs $1200 MORE than the gasser Golf. So over the course of say, 4 years, there is no benefit from an economy perspective to running the TDI. And the real kicker is owning a Prius and getting the same MPG as the TDI, but paying the low cost for RUL really makes the Prius MPG around 60mpg if you normalize for the high cost of diesel with the TDI. So I just don't see how diesel is going to get anymore market share. Yes, I could have bought a Prius and am glad I didn't sicne I personally didn't like it, but I was unprepared to get totally screwed with the price of diesel being and remaining so high. And I really don't see anyone saying anything about it, and nobody is doing anything about it. Great for hybrid sales since if a new person walks into a showroom and is looking for an efficient car, way more hybrid choices that don't use expensive fuel. The current diesel prices make Premium running cars look attractive!

And as far as running my truck, yes it will cost more even and $2/gal gas, but it's more a protest. It pains me to fill up with diesel + the additive at a 70cents/gal premium for no good reason. So, I'll fill up with cheap gas and drive my SUV while I wait (and hope) for diesel to come down...
 

GaGolfSup

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Your logic makes no sense. By driving your truck you're actually giving more profit to the companies you claim to be protesting??? Diesel will come down again.
 

TDI Jim

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Yesterday paid $2.50 for Low Sulfur Diesel (<500ppm sulfur) at a BP on Rt. 2 and Jumpers Hole Rd. in Anne Arundel County, MD. Paid $2.54 for 42 cetane diesel at a Hess station on Pulaski Highway on the eastern side of Baltimore, MD over the weekend. I rarely see cetane ratings on pumps. How about everyone else?
 

Txst

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trapperkeeper said:
$2.06/gal RUL vs. $2.69/gal D2 LSD is a 29% cost adder for the diesel. Add another $.10/gal to run standyne or PS for better lubricity and anti-gel, etc and that makes it $2.09 RUL vs. $2.79 D2 LSD which is an overall 33.5% premium to run diesel. In the Golf gasser vs. Gold TDI discussion, lets say that the gasser = 32MPG overall and the TDI = 45mpg overall (pretty much what I have averaged over 13K miles taking summer and winter driving into account).
You don't have to add any additives anymore than you have to add any to RUG! So that alone drops the cost back down by $.10/gal.

So the TDI advantage in MPG is 40%. The net is that the higher cost of diesel in VT costs me 33.5% MORE to run the TDI for a savings of 40% so operating costs (maint aside) are in favor of the TDI by a measley 6.5%. But the TDI also costs $1200 MORE than the gasser Golf. So over the course of say, 4 years, there is no benefit from an economy perspective to running the TDI.
Not good mathematical logic at all because the variables of the price gap have just become as large as $.53/gal. The gap wasn't that big before now and was basically nothing a few months back. Don't factor in a $.53 gap for 4 yrs when it has never existed, it may only be that big for a week or two. Over the course of the next four years, there may certainly be times when D2 costs less than RUG which would totally wipe out any need for this discussion. There are times when D2 is cheaper, and over a four year period...it is highly unlikely for the gap to remain so large in favor of gas.

And the real kicker is owning a Prius and getting the same MPG as the TDI, but paying the low cost for RUL really makes the Prius MPG around 60mpg if you normalize for the high cost of diesel with the TDI. So I just don't see how diesel is going to get anymore market share. Yes, I could have bought a Prius and am glad I didn't sicne I personally didn't like it, but I was unprepared to get totally screwed with the price of diesel being and remaining so high.
Again, jumping to futuristic conclusions is just a waste. You are making blanket statements about things that haven't yet happened as if D2 will always stay 53 cents higher. The Pius only gets good MPG in the inner city (and it won't be 60 MPG!). Are you never going to drive on the highway? What about the extremely high cost of the battery replacement later on?!

And I really don't see anyone saying anything about it, and nobody is doing anything about it. Great for hybrid sales since if a new person walks into a showroom and is looking for an efficient car, way more hybrid choices that don't use expensive fuel. The current diesel prices make Premium running cars look attractive!
Granted, it doesn't look as attractive for diesels with D2 being higher priced right now, but most people know the fuel market changes often and that the price of RUG can skyrocket in a NY minute, it could certainly go much higher than D2 with a few global changes. The advantages of a diesel in the long run are still intact. Besides, every time you run that SUV you are chopping big amounts of it's life-span down, with a TDI...they keep going and going and....you get the picture. If I were ever going to consider buying a hybrid, it wouldn't be with the guinea pigs of today...it will be a diesel hybrid that actually gives great MPG!

And as far as running my truck, yes it will cost more even and $2/gal gas, but it's more a protest. It pains me to fill up with diesel + the additive at a 70cents/gal premium for no good reason. So, I'll fill up with cheap gas and drive my SUV while I wait (and hope) for diesel to come down...
Personally, I'm glad that RUG is down because I have needed to drive my Caravan lately and it has cost me less to do so than a few months ago. But every chance I can...I drive my TDI because it's cheaper, it will last way longer, it's much more fun to drive, and the less miles I put on the Caravan, the better. If you think your anger is being felt in any way by the D2 people, it's not. I understand your feelings, but it's still just a swing in price that happens on both sides of the road (D2 vs. RUG) at different times. People are learning the value of diesels now and it won't be much affected by a fuel price difference unless the gap is real big for real long. Temporary swings should be expected in such a vulnerable market like fuels. Enjoy the SUV if it makes you feel better, that's your freedom, but it ain't helping the situation change at all. You're wasting instead of conserving. A $.53 gap at these prices still puts the TDI easily ahead of an SUV. In my area, there is a $.30 gap between D2 and RUG so driving the Caravan doesn't make any sense unless it's needed for more passengers (which happens). A 53 cent gap still would be cheaper because of the low MPG in the Caravan.
Cheers
 
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TornadoRed

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trapperkeeper said:
Add another $.10/gal to run standyne or PS for better lubricity and anti-gel, etc..
You might try a different additive. Six quarts of Primrose 405 cost me about $65, enough to treat at least 2500 gallons (I overdose) -- that works out to 2.6 cents/gallon.
 

trapperkeeper

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Well I need to run some sort of an additive when it gets cold in the NE and usually double dose stanadyne in the winter to avoid gelling. So good advice to see if there's a cheaper additive. And as far as D2 staying above RUL, the kicker is that when gasoline prices go high, the entire country complains and the world responds. There is a lot more excess gasoline than there is excess diesel. So when diesel supply grows short - and it seems that there are more reasons for it to do so such as cold weather in the winters - there isn't any extra. Adding more diesel cars to the US/world doesn't make this problem better unless refineries decided to produce more diesel. And isn't it true that you can only get so much gasoline from a barrel of oil and then make diesel/distallates with the rest? As for running my truck, if there's a 70 cents/gallon spread between LSD D2 and RUL, it's getting closer to where the truck makes sense to run. Today, I saw RUL for $2.09 and D2 for $2.69. I do certainly hope that this is just a "timeframe" we are going through, but it doesn't look like it. All summer D2 was 30 cents more than RUL and this fall as I've stated it's 50-60 cents more. And I can't even find ULSD in Vermont!
 
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Bob_Fout

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Wow. At least D2 was less than RUG during the summer where you live. D2 has never been lower than RUG here in my 3 years of TDI ownership except for a week or two. Other than that D2 has always been at or above RUG for me.
 

Txst

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trapperkeeper said:
And as far as D2 staying above RUL, the kicker is that when gasoline prices go high, the entire country complains and the world responds. There is a lot more excess gasoline than there is excess diesel. quote]

That's just one side of the story. There are also a whole lot more vehicles needing that RUG worldwide. I don't think the world responds to our whining about gas prices at all. There are many variables that change the price of fuels but I don't think whining falls in there. The recent huge drop over the past couple of months was not spurred on by complaining. We can't make it keep dropping by more of it either. You can most likely get at least double the MPG in your TDI than in an SUV. Therefore; you would have to pay double for D2 what you pay for RUG to make it even sensible at all. So even a 70 cent gap would be a big waste at current prices. If D2 cost $4.00/gal right now...it might make some sense to drive your SUV.
TDI...always the smart choice!:D
Cheers
 

jayp111

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missing info

One factor that folks are missing is that the US used 3% more D2 through mid 2006 than during the same period in 2005.

At the same time we only used 1% more RUG during that same period.

I posted this info in another thread with the links. If I can find it I'll edit and include.

When you consider the increased D2 consumption and the additional cost to produce/handle ULSD it goes a long way towards explaining a good portion of the increased price.
 

Txst

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justpaddlek1 said:
One factor that folks are missing is that the US used 3% more D2 through mid 2006 than during the same period in 2005.

At the same time we only used 1% more RUG during that same period.

I posted this info in another thread with the links. If I can find it I'll edit and include.

When you consider the increased D2 consumption and the additional cost to produce/handle ULSD it goes a long way towards explaining a good portion of the increased price.
Good point JP, hopefully the price of ULSD will get past the newness hump soon and meet the price of RUG. Think that will happen any time soon? I ain't complainin' though...I'm paying $2.37/gal for ULSD which isn't bad.
 
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jayp111

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Txst said:
Think that will happen any time soon?
Nope, in fact I suspect that fuel prices are getting ready to rebound back to ~$68-72/Barrel once the temps drop in New England....not that increased use in NE will trigger it rather that should roughly coincide with the mid term elections, falling inventories and OPEC's cut in production.

My bet is that we'll see Diesel in the $2.75-90 range for most of the winter.

Current National Avg is $2.21/RUG and $2.60/D2 as per http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/
 

Txst

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justpaddlek1 said:
My bet is that we'll see Diesel in the $2.75-90 range for most of the winter.
I won't bet against ya on that...but I'm sure hoping you're wrong!! :D
Right now there's just a 30 cent gap here in east S.A. It's been staying at about a 30 cent gap for a while. RUG has seemed to level off at $2.07 and D2 at $2.37/gal. I'll enjoy it while I can.

Texas T
 

Bob_Fout

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Cheap cheap cheap. $2.65 to $2.75 here. "Worldwide commodity" my butt. And the state taxes can't be that different.
 

TornadoRed

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Bob_Fout said:
Cheap cheap cheap. $2.65 to $2.75 here. "Worldwide commodity" my butt. And the state taxes can't be that different.
Go here http://www.etrucker.com/apps/promiles/fuelprices.asp to get some idea of the fuel prices and difference in taxes between the various states.

For example, taxes on diesel are 11.5 cents/gallon higher in Illinois than in Iowa.
 

TornadoRed

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Bob_Fout said:
There's a $0.38 cent diff in price though...as I said that's not from taxes.
The cost of the fuel itself is 1.5 cents cheaper in Illinois. With taxes included, Illinois fuel costs 11 cents more.

Note: 35 minus 22.5 equals 12.5 cents more tax, not 11.5 cents.

I don't know where you get the 38 cents. Unless you live in a part of Illinois where fuel is especially expensive.

Edit: looks like $2.50-2.60 is pretty common in your state.
http://www.illinoisgasprices.com/in...a=All Areas&station=All+Stations&tme_limit=24
 

Bob_Fout

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$2.75 (current D2 price in town) - $2.37 (price in TX) = $0.38

There might be county or city tax in all this too...
 

Txst

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Bob_Fout said:
$2.75 (current D2 price in town) - $2.37 (price in TX) = $0.38

There might be county or city tax in all this too...
Don't know where you are at in Illinois but gasbuddy.com shows that there are quite a few places in Illinois with diesel prices in the 2.40's and 2.50's. Don't know if any of these places are close to you at all, you can see the addresses and check. I think many people don't know about gasbuddy.com, it helps me find the cheap fuel in my area. My side of town usually has the cheapest D2 prices in the city anyway. The west side usually has the cheapest RUG in the city here in S.A. It's amazing though; how one station can sell D2 for 2.79 here and just up the road it's 2.39! I see they are doing that most everywhere...including Illinois.
 
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Txst

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Bob_Fout said:
Cheap cheap cheap. $2.65 to $2.75 here. "Worldwide commodity" my butt. And the state taxes can't be that different.
Yes, it is cheap here compared to much of the country so I try not to complain. I'm fortunate in that regard.:)
 

Mike_M

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MrErlo said:
140 million gallons of gasoline and 40 million gallons of diesel, almost all of it being used by the trucking industry.
Ahem...that's billion. :D Sorry...my anal side.
 

Txst

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$2.33/gal for ULSD and $2.05 for RUG. (East San Antonio) Not that big of a gap here in price. Those prices have been holding steady for a while now with little change. No jump at all so far from heating homes. Hopefully that stays the case for a couple more months.
 

BleachedBora

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$2.29 for RUG
$2.72 for D2

Gotta love Utah! :rolleyes:
 
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