Effect of Malone stage 2 or similar tune on DPF & emissions post modification (EA288)

Borsig

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Effect of Malone stage 2 or similar tune on DPF & emissions post modification (EA288)

Its widely speculated that the EPA modification will have a negative impact on the life of the emissions components of the car.

We have no real data on this, but they don't expect the stuff to last, at least not the DPF (which can be deleted and vag-commed out I suppose)

Does the malone tune bring the levels of whatever is negatively working against these componets back to a level where they will last longer? Whats the effect of a stage 2 on DPF, if any?
 

mrmoto35

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I am 98% confident the Malone tune will make things all better. After I had my fix performed I re-applied my Stage 2 tune and my car is running like a champ again.

I am in no way shape or form the most knowledgeable person here so if I am wrong someone will correct me.
 

Borsig

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I'm not sure any one can or will answer it with actual data or reasoning
 

mrmoto35

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Sorry was taking the piss a bit...
It is a tall order to fill. IMO best answer will be informed speculation of course, but really only time can tell. There are so many factors involved. I would think you would need control groups to report findings over time, equipment to pull data, a complete diagram of the Malone mapping, models/model years that are in question (all I assume). This forum would be the best hope to gather all that. Sure someone with engineering experience and all the data in hand can probably give a decent estimate.

The fix was accomplished with an ECU update. I have to believe replacing much of that update with the Malone tune is going to ease the burden on the equipment, if in fact the emissions fix is expected to further burden the emissions equipment. I had not heard that it would or could until now but It makes sense
 
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Borsig

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Im not sure if they expect it or not, but I would expect at least the DPF to suffer. Also probably the urea system since it is in use more.
 

jerrymander

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My Stage 2 modification has ensured that my DPF will now last forever, growing cobwebs.

Nobody can answer the OP's question, however, not even Mark Malone.
 

adjat84th

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My Stage 2 modification has ensured that my DPF will now last forever, growing cobwebs.

Nobody can answer the OP's question, however, not even Mark Malone.
Likely because admitting changes to software that control emissions devices is not the best legal decision. That said, my DPF will also last forever unless I get the opportunity to sell it one day.
 

740GLE

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I believe the stock stage 2 tune doesn’t modify any emissions system operations, it mainly deals with fueling, and throttle tip in. I don’t think its going to help out the DPF/SCR system compared to phase 1 fix, if anything the higher EGTs the tune is pushing (still with in safety limits) could possibly maybe shorten the system lifespan.

Again my crystal ball has been rather foggy so who really knows.
 

Devilsfuel

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I have no idea regarding the malone tune unfortunately but thought I would highlight that on my Mercedes c350 cdi with stage 1 tune and dpf still in place the car runs a regeneration cycle much more, I assume that this is just because of the extra volume of particles it's now having to deal with post modification. I will be removing it soon.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Just to clarify, he's got an eco tune, we haven't been working with international MBs, just VAG stuff.

It's pretty hard to predict longevity on a system that was updated only a few months ago. I just did before/after testing on a stock EA288, 20 minutes apart on a dynapack. The power is identical as expected, boost and rail pressure were slightly higher, as were EGTs. Within a margin of error but the software shows similar mapping changes. Nothing to write home about, no noticeable changes other than throttle response on post-fix tune.
 

Borsig

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Just to clarify, he's got an eco tune, we haven't been working with international MBs, just VAG stuff.

It's pretty hard to predict longevity on a system that was updated only a few months ago. I just did before/after testing on a stock EA288, 20 minutes apart on a dynapack. The power is identical as expected, boost and rail pressure were slightly higher, as were EGTs. Within a margin of error but the software shows similar mapping changes. Nothing to write home about, no noticeable changes other than throttle response on post-fix tune.
Trust me. It 'feels' like they messed with the DSG WAY more than they did the engine. "D" is now like an ECO mode, and sport is, well... Sport without the annoying gear drop and hold.

Id bet the biggest changes were DEF dosing (fine by me I get it for like 2 bucks a gallon at the fuel co-op) and DSG map.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Emissions component life is variable depending on how the operator uses the car and other conditions (trip length, climate, etc.). So I think it's nearly impossible to say that a tune will affect component life one way or another. And we also don't know if the replacement of emissions hardware during the warranty period is preventive or needed.

I think it's not worth worrying about. The hardware is getting less expensive. If you choose to keep it in place and want the car tuned, do it.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Id bet the biggest changes were DEF dosing (fine by me I get it for like 2 bucks a gallon at the fuel co-op) and DSG map.
Yes, this customer mostly city drives in our area (city use) and noted going from about 400km between regens to 300. He's also running audi A3 dsg software. Upon starting the car up on the post-fix file there was a mildly audible difference, not so much louder but different notes, and the throttle was sharper. This was just my experience and it will vary. I did six dyno runs, 3 before 3 after, and they were all blended into a single line. Frame rate with VCDS was unfortunately pretty low so I'd have to do 40 or so pulls to get really accurate data. Will be doing this on an ea189 soon along with some other mods ;)

As IBW mentioned, component life will be more down to driver habits than a tune. Diesels do not like city use, short drives, operating below operating temperature, or being turned off in the middle of a regen. Some easy ways to potentially improve reliability

- Drive the car hard now and again. Not every time you get in it, but every tank or two. Get the temperatures up to help clear out existing carbon.
- If it's only a km or two away, walk.
- If performing a regen, let it finish
- Try to avoid using the last 1/8th of a tank, sure it's fun to compete for mileage records, but you strain the system doing so.
- Don't beat on the car when it's cold, the turbo isn't being lubricated properly
- Try to keep the vent heat to a minimum before the cars most of the way up to temp

None of the above will make a huge impact on their own and are fairly intuitive, but every little bit helps. These EA288s are fairly rare and it's a shame we won't see more of them.
 
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Borsig

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These EA288s are fairly rare and it's a shame we won't see more of them.

This. SO MUCH this. Its why I bought one to replace my buyback.

I do not use the TDI for trips less than 10-20 miles. I use the outback for that
 

TDI4evah

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To those of you who have done a DPF delete, do you now have a smoky exhaust when you punch the gas or are at WOT ?

I'd consider the DPF delete, but I'd really want to know I wasn't making it obvious that I'd done it every time I stepped on the gas.

David
 

Owain@malonetuning

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No, these cars do not roll coal. If you drive it easy for awhile then stomp on it from a stop you'll get a good puff, then a light haze wide open. The file can always be dialed back if someone isn't happy with it, and a high flow cat does help cut smell down.
 

2015jettatdi

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Is hardware removal required to To eliminate/cancel the egr on ea288 tdi 2015? Or can it be done by shutting it off with the flashzilla v3?



No, these cars do not roll coal. If you drive it easy for awhile then stomp on it from a stop you'll get a good puff, then a light haze wide open. The file can always be dialed back if someone isn't happy with it, and a high flow cat does help cut smell down.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Yes we can just turn it off in the software, but the egr is a fundamental emissions component, if turned off the DPF will have to do more work. There are fleet vehicles in Europe that don't have EGRs and consume roughly double the DEF, but since this car wasn't setup like that from the factory it's not so easy to change. EGR components on newer commonrails do not fail regularly or cause the same kind of problems that're regularly seen on old vehicles, this is in part from improvements in egr cooler design, but also because the sulfur content is way lower in modern diesel.

It would be best to leave the emissions components alone, they all work together and removing or altering one can compromise others. We still run the EGR on an ea189 development car even with deletes, and it has about 80k miles of non stop abuse with no real carbon build up. Have had zero complaints about carbon build up on this platform.
 
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Rrusse11

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Likely because admitting changes to software that control emissions devices is not the best legal decision. That said, my DPF will also last forever unless I get the opportunity to sell it one day.
adjat,

Get in touch with these people, they'll buy it at a fair price, even send a shipping label IIRC.

https://dpfrecycler.com/

Cheers,
R*2
 

adjat84th

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adjat,

Get in touch with these people, they'll buy it at a fair price, even send a shipping label IIRC.

https://dpfrecycler.com/

Cheers,
R*2
Thanks!
I sent them an email asking for a quote since the site doesn't have the latest DPF listed.

Edit: they responded saying the latest units have no precious metals worth salvaging which is very interesting.
 

m1ketdi

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Yes we can just turn it off in the software, but the egr is a fundamental emissions component, if turned off the DPF will have to do more work. There are fleet vehicles in Europe that don't have EGRs and consume roughly double the DEF, but since this car wasn't setup like that from the factory it's not so easy to change. EGR components on newer commonrails do not fail regularly or cause the same kind of problems that're regularly seen on old vehicles, this is in part from improvements in egr cooler design, but also because the sulfur content is way lower in modern diesel.

It would be best to leave the emissions components alone, they all work together and removing or altering one can compromise others. We still run the EGR on an ea189 development car even with deletes, and it has about 80k miles of non stop abuse with no real carbon build up. Have had zero complaints about carbon build up on this platform.
Turning off EGR reduces soot and makes more NOx > less soot = less dpf filling up and less regens. More NOx encourages passive regeneration = less dpf regens required.
 

Huskies2710

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For those who have gone the route of malone stage 2 and the full delete? How bad is the smell? Start the car and you get a whiff and thats it? Or sit at any stop light and you smell it?

For those who have gone route of malone stage 2 and kept emissions as it? Have you noticed substantially more regens? I noticed someone said they got more at the beginning of the tune where it lessened the frequently as the time went on.

Appreciate input on this topic.
 

KERMA

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I can't speak for malone but I can say with 100% certainty that a kerma stage 1/1+ will result in regens happening every ~500 miles which is MUCH less frequent than stock. And passive regens are effective too.

this is an intentional, engineered effect built into the kerma tunes, just like the other "secret sauces".
 

KERMA

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regens exactly like stock, but at much longer intervals between regens
 

kdawg89

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How does it calculate when to regen? Seems like if I remember correctly the factory programming was more or less based on a timer vs actual soot load.
 
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