Understanding Oil Specs in the Real World

For the last couple of days I have need reading the Oil Lab results form TDI-PD owners. I looking for for a "better" oil then the old 505.01 spec for a 2004 TDI. So far I've seen Mobil 1 TDT 5W40 show excellent results with reduced wear in PD engines compared to 505.01 oils.

It seems that the API CJ-4/SM & CI-4+/SL specs are better for the PD when using Oil Analysis. Not all CJ-4/SM & CI-4+/SL oils are equal. But so far the proof is in the Oil test results and Modil 1 TDT 5W40 looks to be the "best" replacement for the PD motor oil.

I have read many others that posted using different oils based on "feel" and "sound" or manufacture specs , well that's not good info, if the cam is gone in 50K.

I have been looking at the Amsoil specs and the Series 3000 specs and it spec a 0.35 scar on the Four-Ball Wear Test and it doesn't meet API CJ-4 spec? I read in the forum that the Series 3000 will wear a cam about 0.003" every 30K, wow that is a lot of wear. What is the Four-Ball Wear Test really about?

I'm just trying to piece together oil tests to specs maybe more "Gurus" can chime in.

I've been doing more reading on BOB IS THE OIL GUY Forum and most people with the PD (BEW) engines not using the 505.01 spec are getting less engine wear from their oil samples using the non-spec 505.01 oils like M1 TDT or Shell's T6.

I did the same thing you are doing when I bought this latest NB. M1 TDT looked very good to me and I have been using it instead of 505.01. Mine was a very low mileage (35k) car so I am hoping for the best with M1 TDT this time.

i've now gone over the Rotella T6 after a ton of reading. I was using 505.01 oils, but I feel that enough people have done UOA's that i'm confident in my choice.

so M1TDT is not 505.01 but alot of PD users here are using it and it is the best or one of the best oils is that right?
i was in costco other day and they was selling mobil1 turbo diesel truck and i tihnk it was 5w 40. might have to get some.
is there anything bad with fuchs titan gt1 xtl. i used it in my last oil change.

are all 505.01 oils camwearers?

raikky said:

so M1TDT is not 505.01 but alot of PD users here are using it and it is the best or one of the best oils is that right?
i was in costco other day and they was selling mobil1 turbo diesel truck and i tihnk it was 5w 40. might have to get some.
is there anything bad with fuchs titan gt1 xtl. i used it in my last oil change.
are all 505.01 oils camwearers?

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The best way to know is by doing your own Oil Analysis.
I have do tons of reading and when I switch to non-505.01 I will be doing an Oil Analysis after 5K. Better to be sure than guessing, it gives me peace of mind.

TDI_04_Driver said:

The best way to know is by doing your own Oil Analysis.
I have do tons of reading and when I switch to non-505.01 I will be doing an Oil Analysis after 5K. Better to be sure than guessing, it gives me peace of mind.

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think i might give it a go next oil change.

I think it really depends on what you want to do with the information. Keep in mind the engineering, testing and a whole lot of miles and time are WAY under the bridge so to speak. If all you want to do are 10,000 miles OCI's, almost any VW 505.01 specification oil is up to the task. Being as how the new back ward compatible VW 507.00 5w30 is the "brew" of choice, in some minds you are already covered.

If I had a PD, I agree with one guru AND for a minimum of 20,000 miles http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=296388.

I do not have a PD, but use Mobil One 5w40 TDT aka Delvac One 5w40 and have so for 168,000 miles (since oem fill change @ 5,000 miles.) It has been proven time and time again one of the better oils. When LSD was the standard I ran 15,000 to 20,000 miles OCI's. Now that ULSD is the standard I run 25,000 miles OCI's. The last one was 30,700. I am working on 30,000 miles for this lastest one.

All you really need to know for PD is Viscosity, Pumpability, flash point.
Diesel and any other flat tappet, solid lifter engine should never get lower then a 40w oil.
Find a oil with a good pump rate (help with injector lobe wear), 40w (maintains film on cam and lifters). Somewhere flash point cam up I believe it was piston ring configuration.
There is a lot on these forums on oils. The general census is find CJ-4 oils that meet or exceeds 505.01 in the above. I use Petro-Can Duron E 0w-40 winter, 10w-40 for summer.
Good luck reading and fact finding. Do not do anything you are not comfortable with. After all your the one who will have to foot the bill for what you do or do not do.

d-man said:

All you really need to know for PD is Viscosity, Pumpability, flash point.
Diesel and any other flat tappet, solid lifter engine should never get lower then a 40w oil.
Find a oil with a good pump rate (help with injector lobe wear), 40w (maintains film on cam and lifters). Somewhere flash point cam up I believe it was piston ring configuration.
There is a lot on these forums on oils. The general census is find CJ-4 oils that meet or exceeds 505.01 in the above. I use Petro-Can Duron E 0w-40 winter, 10w-40 for summer.
Good luck reading and fact finding. Do not do anything you are not comfortable with. After all your the one who will have to foot the bill for what you do or do not do.

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Yes, the gallows humor ( perhaps counter intuitive might be better) approach to this: curiously, a majority of PD cam failures actually happened USING the VW specification OIL !!! (VW 505.01) While this has been covered in great detail and frequency, Mobil One 5w40 TDT is not and never was VW 505.01 compliant. Indeed in my NON PD 2003 TDI, it is even not 505.00 compliant. I have seen (seen and witness by others AND our local TDI guru) my camhaft lobes during the 100,000 miles TB/WP change and the lobes showed original factory markings. I am looking forward @ 200,000 +PLUS miles (in 40,000 to 50,000 miles) to a very similar result, using Mobil One 5w40 TDT with 25,000 to 30,000 miles OCI's..

My UOA's with TDT have been pretty good, and that is with 12K OCI's. I'm tempted to rip off that silly 505.01 warning sticker from under the hood of my Golf. I tried the Amsoil DEO and that too showed good results, but I only used it for on OCI. TDT is much easier to come by. I too had done alot of research on the chemistry of motor oil and found it to be very informative.

ruking said:

I do not have a PD, but use Mobil One 5w40 TDT aka Delvac One 5w40

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Not entirely accurate. While TDT and D1 are very similar, one is not simply a repackaged other....

NewYorkBuck said:

Not entirely accurate. While TDT and D1 are very similar, one is not simply a repackaged other....

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Well of course not. When Delvac One 5w40 was available in the larger diesel trucks marketing circles in late 2002 to early 2003 (when I was first made aware of it), Mobil One 5w40 TDT was not even formulated, nor even on the market. I could go on, but most of the details are not germane to the issue at hand. When Mobil One 5w40 came on the market, I had no issues using IT interchangeably with Delvac One 5w40. Indeed they were and still are backward and crossword compatible. What has not changed is that Delvac One 5w40 REMAINS being marketed in the larger diesel trucks marketing circles.

The major reason why I did not stay with 505.01 was that every other VW diesel I owned took 5w40 castrol. Costco where I worked carried 5w-40 so I kept buying.My reasoning was why would the individiual injectors change the need for a 40 weight . I think I got lucky as I have put in the 40 weight since new and knock on wood I have had no problems and since then the 5w-40 is now ok. But prior to CJ-4 I was using the lucas engine break in formula, which was high in zinc zddp and there is a lot on this also in the forums. again as long as the oil is heavey enough to protect and thin enough to pump you should be ok.