My 1991 Golf Build Thread

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
Nice thread, keep the updates coming :)
Thanks. Now limited on cash for parts and services. My mini goal for the moment is to get the head sent out to FrankO6 by Christmas. I know he is busy as all hell, so that should give me some time to save up the cash for his services.

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bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
I have a couple questions about accessories and pulleys that I figured I'd ask here before starting a new thread about it somewhere else.

Take a look at my current setup. No power steering pump, v band driving the water pump only (with no tensioner that I can see), and the serp belt driving a dummy idler pulley where the compressor should be and alternator. I would like to restore A/C and power steering to this motor. The compressor seems pretty straightforward, just mount it in place of the dummy bracket and run it off the serp belt. The problem then is the serp belt will run into the power steering pump so I guess something must be changed with that or the water pump? Pics are provided below so you don't have to look back.









Another question. What's the capacity of the stock alternator? 120A? Are there any drop in (preferably OEM) replacements with higher capacity?
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
The v-belt will run the power steering pump.

Check out the vortex's vr6 12v forum I bet there are a few over there that have done an upgrade to the alternator.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
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MD
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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta

Alcaid

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There is a lot of Chinese knockoff turbos of that GT2259LS, can be purchased as low as 260$ shipped so I'm hoping that you haven't been ripped off. Do you have a genuine Garrett number plate on the turbo?
 

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
There is a lot of Chinese knockoff turbos of that GT2259LS, can be purchased as low as 260$ shipped so I'm hoping that you haven't been ripped off. Do you have a genuine Garrett number plate on the turbo?
I'll check for a plate when I get home from work. Where should it be, on the cartridge? I found this model turbo through 4btforums and purchased it from the same eBay company as the OP in that thread. He installed his a couple years ago with no issues reported yet. It was advertised by the seller as a genuine Garrett reman.

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SkyRyder55

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now everybody slams these cheap knockoffs. But has anyone run them and had issues? I mean, I personally would not risck blowing up a compressor wheel and taking out my top end, but maybe they are decent for the application they are designed.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
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cape cod, ma
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82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
why would you want >120a alternator? that is huge for what you likely need. i have a 90a alternator on my rabbit and haven't had any issues with it.
 

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
Now i will give it to you that turbo looks almost exactly the same as mine. I bought mine from Kinugawa, which has mixed reviews on the forums, but this looks to be a quality product. I'll see how it runs. Apparently they are known to be very good with returns and warranty issues.





why would you want >120a alternator? that is huge for what you likely need. i have a 90a alternator on my rabbit and haven't had any issues with it.
I have a few reasons for this. I will have a bit of a sound system, probably not enough to need more than 120 though. I am also thinking of getting an inline 12v coolant heater like my MK6 has to keep it nice and warm in the winter. Just adding a few heavy electrical loads and wondering if there are any drop ins available. Otherwise I'd have to get my current alternator rewound at a shop.

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dzcad90

Rolex & gin
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Joliet, IL USA
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Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
The biggest alternator that was made (that I could find) for the MkIII was a 120A and IIRC it came on the TDI.

I had a pretty big sound system in my MKIII and I found an alternator shop in NC to wind me a custom 180A alternator for under $200, but that was 10 years ago (seems like yesterday..)

For big systems, a big alternator helps but capacitors help even more in most cases. Some people dog on cacacitors, but the voltage regulator in an alternator can't really respond fast enough where a capacitor can. Alternators help with long musical demand and recharging your capacitor.
 

SuperAdellic

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The biggest alternator that was made (that I could find) for the MkIII was a 120A and IIRC it came on the TDI.

I had a pretty big sound system in my MKIII and I found an alternator shop in NC to wind me a custom 180A alternator for under $200, but that was 10 years ago (seems like yesterday..)

For big systems, a big alternator helps but capacitors help even more in most cases. Some people dog on cacacitors, but the voltage regulator in an alternator can't really respond fast enough where a capacitor can. Alternators help with long musical demand and recharging your capacitor.
+1 this. I used to install car stereos a long time ago (1998-2000) and in my experience, an Optima red top, 120A alternator, and a good sized capacitor (1 farad would probably be overkill but it's good insurance) for a two amp setup running under 1000W RMS will work just fine. If you plan to run the stereo a lot with the engine off, then get a deep cycle battery, otherwise regular Optima or similar type will do. Don't forget the sound deadening if you go with a sub. That Golf will rattle without it.
 

SkyRyder55

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spoken like true followers of the capacitor cult.
caps are a marketing gimmick. plain and simple. they actually put more load on your alternator. how do I know? clamp your power cable while playing a constant frequency with the cap installed. now remove the cap and play the same frequency and same volume. you will be drawing more power with the cap installed because now the alternator is trying to charge your drained cap ad well. but hey, it's your money. and to alot of people, spending the small amount of money is piece of mind. though it shouldn't be. search the net, there is no tangible proof of them actually working, but tonnes to the contrary.
 

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
spoken like true followers of the capacitor cult.
caps are a marketing gimmick. plain and simple. they actually put more load on your alternator. how do I know? clamp your power cable while playing a constant frequency with the cap installed. now remove the cap and play the same frequency and same volume. you will be drawing more power with the cap installed because now the alternator is trying to charge your drained cap ad well. but hey, it's your money. and to alot of people, spending the small amount of money is piece of mind. though it shouldn't be. search the net, there is no tangible proof of them actually working, but tonnes to the contrary.
Before getting into cars I was into car audio and worked at a few shops. I even got my MECP cert for installing mobile electronics. I remember my old bosses telling me and the book saying (even though we would sell caps to stupid people left and right) there is no point in buying a cap till you upgrade your alternator. Furthermore, caps really only help with audio systems because their output varies and the surge capacity helps cut down on voltage drops that cause distortion. Caps are only good for audio systems when you have enough alternator capacity to keep up with the continuous demands, but you experience voltage drops (headlights dimming, distortion from motorboating the amp, etc.) during peak demand. I don't forsee that being a problem for me, and I don't listen to genres of music that put those types of requirements on my sound system (rap is best known for creating surge demands).

Yes, I will have a system, but that really isn't the bulk of my planned electrical loads. Its more heaters, lights, and possibly an invertor to run A/C electronics.

I was simply comparing the electrical loads on this car to my MK6 and thinking I may be making it more like the MK6, and thought an upgrade may be in order to keep up. Speaking of, anyone know the capacity of the MK6 TDI alternators?

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SuperAdellic

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Before getting into cars I was into car audio and worked at a few shops. I even got my MECP cert for installing mobile electronics. I remember my old bosses telling me and the book saying (even though we would sell caps to stupid people left and right) there is no point in buying a cap till you upgrade your alternator. Furthermore, caps really only help with audio systems because their output varies and the surge capacity helps cut down on voltage drops that cause distortion. Caps are only good for audio systems when you have enough alternator capacity to keep up with the continuous demands, but you experience voltage drops (headlights dimming, distortion from motorboating the amp, etc.) during peak demand. I don't forsee that being a problem for me, and I don't listen to genres of music that put those types of requirements on my sound system (rap is best known for creating surge demands).

Yes, I will have a system, but that really isn't the bulk of my planned electrical loads. Its more heaters, lights, and possibly an invertor to run A/C electronics.

I was simply comparing the electrical loads on this car to my MK6 and thinking I may be making it more like the MK6, and thought an upgrade may be in order to keep up. Speaking of, anyone know the capacity of the MK6 TDI alternators?

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Okay, now I get what you are doing with the Golf. My previous comment was incorrect. Capacitor won't help for that. The alternator definitely needs to be sized correctly to the load. I found a few companies offering high output alternators for VWs. A couple of links are below.
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=444
http://store.mechmanhighoutputalternators.com/alternators/volkswagen/jetta/93-97/1-9-diesel/

Stock CJAA alternator is 140A (06F903023F) http://www.partsbase.org/vw/jetta-je-mx-2012-90300-alternator-and-single-parts/
I hope that helps.
 

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
Okay, now I get what you are doing with the Golf. My previous comment was incorrect. Capacitor won't help for that. The alternator definitely needs to be sized correctly to the load. I found a few companies offering high output alternators for VWs. A couple of links are below.
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=444
http://store.mechmanhighoutputalternators.com/alternators/volkswagen/jetta/93-97/1-9-diesel/

Stock CJAA alternator is 140A (06F903023F) http://www.partsbase.org/vw/jetta-je-mx-2012-90300-alternator-and-single-parts/
I hope that helps.
Thanks. That 150A one for $345 looked like a pretty good deal. I wonder if the CJAA could be adapted to fit on the 1Z. I gotta get a closer look at it. They tuck it pretty deep in the MK6.

Edit:
CJAA alternators go for $235 for a Bosch and $288 for ACDELCO. Another thing I noticed about them is they use a different type of pulley. Looks to have a clutch in it like an AC compressor. Rock Auto describes it as a "clutch pulley" or "free wheel belt pulley".

From the pictures I've seen, the CJAA looks pretty close to my 1Z, but I wouldnt know without having one in front of me. And I don't want to take apart my work car to find out.

Take a look at the video on the below site, I found it in a thread from VWDiesel.net. If you watch the video that compares all 3 types of pulleys, I've noticed my 1Z serp belt looks like #1 with the tensioner jumping all around like that. Supposedly these OAD couplers smooth out the belt, reduce NVH, and increase fuel economy. 140A plus a smoother belt would be a nice upgrade for the price if it's not too much trouble to get it to fit. Our TDIs already have 6 rib belts right? The VR6 also had a 120A and that was 6 rib, so I figure the 1Z should.

http://www.decouplerpulley.com/
 
Last edited:

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
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Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
spoken like true followers of the capacitor cult.
caps are a marketing gimmick. plain and simple. they actually put more load on your alternator. how do I know? clamp your power cable while playing a constant frequency with the cap installed. now remove the cap and play the same frequency and same volume. you will be drawing more power with the cap installed because now the alternator is trying to charge your drained cap ad well. but hey, it's your money. and to alot of people, spending the small amount of money is piece of mind. though it shouldn't be. search the net, there is no tangible proof of them actually working, but tonnes to the contrary.

"Capacitor cult?"

LOL. Capacitors have their place, and alternators have their place.

Your example totally PROVES my point. Install a nice juicy 160, 180, 200A alternator and play music. During brief, loud, hits your lights will still dim. Put a voltage meter on the car, watch it indicate the voltage has dropped. A capacitor can act as a buffer for those strong, brief, demands. Yes, your alternator has to replenish the capacitor, but that happens more gradually than the amp trying to pull all that demand from the alternator at once.

Now, let's take your example. Play a test tone for a long period - now that's where you're going to see the immediate benefits of a larger alternator. The voltage regulator will have plenty of time to react to these long demands and the alternator will then begin to increase it's output, raising the current output to maintain the necessary voltage on the circuit.

In actuality, having both is probably the best solution. Capacitor to buffer the brief spikes, and an upgraded alternator to handle the longer demands and replenish the capacitor. It also depends on the type of music you listen to - more long draws form an 808 and you're going to benefit from the alternator. More brief demands from pop and rock, you're going to benefit more immediately from a capacitor. (This analysis excludes extreme situations, such as using a JL1000/1 type amp, you're going to definitely need an alternator, capacitor, and/or maybe a storage cell.)

Lets face it, most people dog on capacitors because they're a cheap fix. In reality, they do work and work pretty well in most cases - they buffer large spikes in demand. That's what capacitors do. That's their purpose in electronics - store current for demand. By the time your alternator is replenishing your capacitor, the amp is probably done with it's strong demand. Got a capacitor installed and you're still dimming your lights? Get a stronger alternator.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
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82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
you should definitely be using a clutched alternator pulley regardless. hopefully you are checking/replacing your crank gear at this time (i would pin it as G60ING has shown in his thread). i use an mk4 clutched alt pulley on my mk1 with a 90am o-reilly's alternator :) the mk4 fits exactly the same, but for some reason is much cheaper than an oem mk3 one...
 

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
you should definitely be using a clutched alternator pulley regardless. hopefully you are checking/replacing your crank gear at this time (i would pin it as G60ING has shown in his thread). i use an mk4 clutched alt pulley on my mk1 with a 90am o-reilly's alternator :) the mk4 fits exactly the same, but for some reason is much cheaper than an oem mk3 one...
There is a difference between "clutched" and this OAD design. The only VW the website lists is an 09-12 Amarok 2.0TSI which makes me wonder because I would think the 2.0TSI in the MK6 would have the same alternator as the TDI. Also, when I looked up the OAD pulley for the Amarok on that decoupler pulley site, it looks exactly the same as the pulley included with the CJAA alternator on rockauto. Need to do a little more digging....

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bassman5066

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you should definitely be using a clutched alternator pulley regardless. hopefully you are checking/replacing your crank gear at this time (i would pin it as G60ING has shown in his thread). i use an mk4 clutched alt pulley on my mk1 with a 90am o-reilly's alternator :) the mk4 fits exactly the same, but for some reason is much cheaper than an oem mk3 one...
What do you mean by the crank gear, the pulley/harmonic balancer? I already knew I needed a new balancer but what's this about pinning the gear? Like the TB gear?

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oldpoopie

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2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
you should definitely be using a clutched alternator pulley regardless. hopefully you are checking/replacing your crank gear at this time (i would pin it as G60ING has shown in his thread). i use an mk4 clutched alt pulley on my mk1 with a 90am o-reilly's alternator :) the mk4 fits exactly the same, but for some reason is much cheaper than an oem mk3 one...

The mk4 clutched pulley is NOT INTERCHANGABLE with the mk3 pulley. If you look closely, you'll notice that the pulleys shoulder is not seated on the shoulder of the mk3 alternator. There is a pre-thread internal diameter difference which allows the mk3 alt pulley to fully seat. The mk4 pulley can be bored out on a mill or lathe to function. If you don't modify it, you've got a high likelihood of burning up the bearings in the nose of your alternator. Ask FRANKENCAR about how many alternators he went thru before he figured out the difference.
 

Frankencar

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1991 GTI +TDI, Lifted 98 NB TDI, Corrado TDI Swap, 15 Golf TDI, a dozen TDI motors etc...
The mk4 clutched pulley is NOT INTERCHANGABLE with the mk3 pulley. If you look closely, you'll notice that the pulleys shoulder is not seated on the shoulder of the mk3 alternator. There is a pre-thread internal diameter difference which allows the mk3 alt pulley to fully seat. The mk4 pulley can be bored out on a mill or lathe to function. If you don't modify it, you've got a high likelihood of burning up the bearings in the nose of your alternator. Ask FRANKENCAR about how many alternators he went thru before he figured out the difference.
100% true. the MK4 alternator pulley will bolt right up to the MK3 alternator, but the bore in the back of the pulley isn't deep enough for he longer section on non-threaded shaft on the earlier alternators. The pulley will seat 1-2mmish shy of the washer and not clamp the bearing inner race tight on the rotor. After a few thousand miles this will cause the rotor to spin in the nose bearing in the alternator and grind the rotor till the alternator isn't rebuildable. It's easy to install it and think it's right, then blame the alternator for being a bad rebuild before getting another one and making the same stupid mistake... Don't ask me how I know that... :eek:
 

G60ING

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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
100% true. the MK4 alternator pulley will bolt right up to the MK3 alternator, but the bore in the back of the pulley isn't deep enough for he longer section on non-threaded shaft on the earlier alternators. The pulley will seat 1-2mmish shy of the washer and not clamp the bearing inner race tight on the rotor. After a few thousand miles this will cause the rotor to spin in the nose bearing in the alternator and grind the rotor till the alternator isn't rebuildable. It's easy to install it and think it's right, then blame the alternator for being a bad rebuild before getting another one and making the same stupid mistake... Don't ask me how I know that... :eek:
Good info, the next time I see a mk3 alternator thread I will cut n paste the last two responses for others :) learning the hardway stinks, thanks for taking one for the team.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
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82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
100% true. the MK4 alternator pulley will bolt right up to the MK3 alternator, but the bore in the back of the pulley isn't deep enough for he longer section on non-threaded shaft on the earlier alternators. The pulley will seat 1-2mmish shy of the washer and not clamp the bearing inner race tight on the rotor. After a few thousand miles this will cause the rotor to spin in the nose bearing in the alternator and grind the rotor till the alternator isn't rebuildable. It's easy to install it and think it's right, then blame the alternator for being a bad rebuild before getting another one and making the same stupid mistake... Don't ask me how I know that... :eek:
VERY GOOD TO KNOW! i burned up two alternators myself (an old OE one, and then a brand new one), and kept looking at it very closely and could not see *** that would be happening. i thought it must have just been a fluke, bad luck :rolleyes: so that 1-2mm is enough to cause problems... makes sense. when i put in my last alternator (90-amp from o-reillys), i did not put the curvy washer behind the pulley and afaict it was lined up exactly as it should be and it has been fine for ~8k miles i think. *shrug*
 

bassman5066

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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
VERY GOOD TO KNOW! i burned up two alternators myself (an old OE one, and then a brand new one), and kept looking at it very closely and could not see *** that would be happening. i thought it must have just been a fluke, bad luck :rolleyes: so that 1-2mm is enough to cause problems... makes sense. when i put in my last alternator (90-amp from o-reillys), i did not put the curvy washer behind the pulley and afaict it was lined up exactly as it should be and it has been fine for ~8k miles i think. *shrug*
How do ya know if ya don't know? ;)

I think I'm gonna go with the CJAA 140A if I upgrade. I'm still waiting on an email from Gates to find out if that alternator has the OAD clutch or if its still just the OWC like previous models. If it is OWC, I'll price out the MK5 140A units to see if those are the same or one is cheaper.

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bassman5066

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Honey Brook PA
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2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
Received some packages today :cool:


PD150 Pistons from Rock Auto
Cyl 1/2







Cyl 3/4









Rosten rods with tapered small end for PD Pistons:





 
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