Crank no start help PD Engine

antleo

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Jan 26, 2019
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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
Long story short I picked up a jetta cheap with the engine out (guy said he did timing belt, clutch, new trans because the old one had a slow leak) i got it bolted in and have 90 % of the sensors connected, the only one noteably missing is the input speed sensor into the trans. It cranks but no start, no noticeable smoke no noticeable diesel smell(makes me think fuel related..) has fuel, has fuel all the way to the steel lines running across the engine. I have codes P2100, P0128, P0299, P2564, P0303, P0673, P0203.

though there are definetly codes that need attention, none of these to my knowledge should cause a no start. I have cranked this thing plenty long to the point where it should have atleast popped or showed some sign of life, so i dont think its the #3 glow plug, i ohmed out the plug and its shot, will replace once i get the thing to fire. the rest are mainly out of tolerance values, which again i dont think would cause a no start. what should i look at here? any ideas?
 

eddieleephd

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2002 jetta Wagon
All glow plugs pulled shouldn't matter, is that #3 injector that matters on the ALH not the pump duse do far as I know.
You say you have fuel to the rail and smell no diesel smell. It's not coming out the injectors or you'd smell it.

Clutch cancel/ Park sensor, something isn't connected right.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
The clutch switch does appear to be working as when I take my foot off the clutch it stops cranking. It is cranking at a good speed(I'll let you know specific rpm tomorrow.. But should be fast enough)
 

Tdijarhead

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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I’m going to assume that you hooked up the injector wires plug on the front drivers corner of the head and made sure you seated it properly?
 

wonneber

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I would hook up all the connectors, not just most of them.

When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump in the tank run for a few seconds?
Does the glow plug light come on for a few seconds?

Check all the ground wires are connected, clean, and tight.
If the one under the battery is bad then everything that grounds to the body is bad.

Did you check if fuel is getting to the front.
I'm not sure how you blead the BEW injectors.
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
The fuel pump does run, the glow plug light comes on, and it all seems like it should run. The grounds are good and clean (0.4 ohms to body ground) fuel is getting to the tandem pump, I haven't verified past that. The starter burnt up (my own dumb fault trying to crank it to long in a sitting) so I'll check the return line for fuel on Friday when the new starter gets here (Id assume that means that fuel is getting to the injectors.)

Up until the starter burnt up it cranked at a very good speed. The injector harness (circle twist lock connector on the drivers side) is hooked up and properly seated. I swapped in a new fuel filter as well as some diesel 911 and fresh fuel into it, the old filter didn't seem to let much fuel out when I dumped it so this very much so could be my problem.. Will keep you all posted. Thank you all for the suggestions.
 

wonneber

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2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Fuel may be getting to the pump but if the signals aren't getting to the ECU it's not going to fire.

I think you should clear the codes and see what codes come back again.
Work on those.

Do you have the locking tools to check the pump and cam static timing?
 

Tdijarhead

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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
As mentioned hook everything up. Of course it looks like you’ll need to replace the starter, you’re not the first persons to burn one up trying to get a car started.

After everything is hooked up, unhook the fuel line where it comes into the fuel filter from the fuel tank. Cycle the key like you were doing a glow cycle. If the lift pump is working you should get about 2-3 oz of fuel with each cycle of the key. Aim the hose into a cup or can, don’t use styrofoam.

Is you fuel filter full? If the lift pump is working after hooking the hose back up you can use the lift pump to fill the filter by cycling the key 6-8 times. You could then pull the rubber hose on the other end of the head where it goes into the tandem pump. Do you have fuel there?

I would also clear the codes before I tried starting it again. Some of them may be old and not applicable to this problem you’re having. Consult the Ross-tech page to track down the code solutions.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Fault_Codes

There are several pages of codes.
 

antleo

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Jan 26, 2019
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
04 jetta 1.9 PD
These codes all appear to be new, (its been sitting without the battery ) I will definitely clear the codes before trying again. the lift pump works, its how i filled my new fuel filter. Ill check at the tandem pump, but I'm 99% sure its getting there. there's only 2 sensors not hooked up at this point: the vss(not connected at all, need to get a new one) and the water temp sensor is plugged in but not in any fluid. I also don't have the vacuum lines hooked up, I'm going to hook those up and give it another shot.


I really appreciate all your guys help!
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
Alright so new starter is in, same result, crank, no start, no smoke didn't pop off at all or anything. Didn't hook up vacuum lines yet, but will do that today or tomorrow. I cleared the codes, 2 came back, the glow plug, and the throttle out of range. This one got me thinking: does this have a flood mode? The throttle is reading at 95.3% over obd. So if the ecu sees that as full throttle and says not firing the injectors. I know that's a thing on some other vehicles. I pulled the plug off of the tps on the pedal and there was no change. Any ideas on that? Would that cause it not to start or would it dump a bunch of fuel in?
 

wonneber

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2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I think I read something about that a while back.
Hold the pedal to the floor and no fuel is delivered.

Search here for throttle relearn or something like that.

Use an ohm meter to check continuity.
Pins 2 and 3 should be the same value trough the range.
Pin 4 to either 2 or 3 should vary with pedal movement.

Sorry, don't know the spec off hand.
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
I will check that. Thank you!

Edit: I just searched that, looks like it requires a VAG scanner so I guess I'm gunna order that obd11 (was gunna at some point anyways but was hoping to get it running first)
 
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antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
Finally got the code causing the issues I think! P3008 cam position sensor! Can't pick one up until at earliest Friday though.
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
You can use a multi meter to test the resistance if you have one.
Of which wires / pins? I couldn't find a pin out for the thing when I looked. Im an electronics / low voltage technician by trade so that's an easy enough test for me.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
I'm not sure how you blead the BEW injectors.
Remove glowplugs and crank engine until puffs of fuel mist come out through the glowplug holes. Then put glowplugs back and it should run.

Of course this will only help if air in the lines is the only problem.
 

runonbeer

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Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
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'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I had a number of BEW cars come through my shop after sitting for a long time and they would not start once I got them to a point where they should’ve. New injectors fixes it every time.

Can you get your hands on a known good runner set of BEW injectors?
 

runonbeer

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Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
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'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
The cam sensor code is probably just a result of all the cranking it has undergone. I used to see cars with weak batteries set cam sensor faults from regular start up because of the voltage sagging below ~8V during cranking. Particularly cars with the crappy 5V GP software.
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
I had a number of BEW cars come through my shop after sitting for a long time and they would not start once I got them to a point where they should’ve. New injectors fixes it every time.

Can you get your hands on a known good runner set of BEW injectors?
Not likely without buying new unfortunately. Can these be "buzz" tested like on a power stroke? That'd atleast test the electrical side.
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
The cam sensor code is probably just a result of all the cranking it has undergone. I used to see cars with weak batteries set cam sensor faults from regular start up because of the voltage sagging below ~8V during cranking. Particularly cars with the crappy 5V GP software.

It definitely didn't drop below 8v while cranking, lowest was 10v. That being said it's quite possible it's a false code. But I did pull it apart and found the wire to be Very brittle. To the point the insulation would fall off in my hand. That coupled with the real tight loop (practically knotted) would lead me to believe that it's a possible sensor problem. Ill get a new sensor Friday and find out either way. I really appreciate your input. I'll try to find a set of injectors locally.
 

wonneber

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Of which wires / pins? I couldn't find a pin out for the thing when I looked. Im an electronics / low voltage technician by trade so that's an easy enough test for me.
Thought I forgot something. :(
Pins 2 3 and 4.
4 is the center.
I had almost 2 years of electronic engineering back in 70-72.
Calculus 3 put an end to it. :(
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
So I was able to get the sbesor today, that of course was not it as someone had predicted. I haven't ruled that out exactly yet as the wire harness from the ecu is kind of crappy. The insulation is cracked and brittle. That being Said I think next step is unfortunately injectors. I'm going to pull them out and try cleaning them.. Though I doubt Itll do anything.. Where do they typically gum up? In the tips or up internally in the body?

In regards to the tps, that does appear to be working. I found the value that changes when I step on the pedal (only available in a VAG style interface apparently) . I'm not sure what this is reading as throttle position..
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Do not try to take apart your injectors. They will be ruined.

http://www.dbwllc.net/product/damaged-pd-from-attempt-to-open/

You can try sending them away to be professionally refurbished. Or try a used set from a wrecker.

As for where they typically gum up, I would say they do not typically gum up. Mine are fine after 15 years and near 300,000km.

Edit: You can try cleaning them with carburetor cleaner and a soft cloth, but that would just clean gunk off the outside. Won't help internals.

Also, be aware that when you remove the injectors, you need a new seal kit to put them back in. You're looking at about $60 for the four injectors, just to take them out and put them back. Also, the bolts that hold the injectors in cannot be reused, nor can the bolts that hold the injector rocker assemblies. They aren't cheap to replace either.

Basically only remove them as a last resort, not just to have a look or something.
 
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antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
Do not try to take apart your injectors. They will be ruined.

http://www.dbwllc.net/product/damaged-pd-from-attempt-to-open/

You can try sending them away to be professionally refurbished. Or try a used set from a wrecker.

As for where they typically gum up, I would say they do not typically gum up. Mine are fine after 15 years and near 300,000km.

Edit: You can try cleaning them with carburetor cleaner and a soft cloth, but that would just clean gunk off the outside. Won't help internals.

Also, be aware that when you remove the injectors, you need a new seal kit to put them back in. You're looking at about $60 for the four injectors, just to take them out and put them back. Also, the bolts that hold the injectors in cannot be reused, nor can the bolts that hold the injector rocker assemblies. They aren't cheap to replace either.

Basically only remove them as a last resort, not just to have a look or something.
I wasnt anticipating taking them apart (as with the power stroke injectors I'm sure these have some high tolerances internally) which Is why I was hoping it was the tips as I could soak them.. But if that's not it..
 

antleo

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Pennsylvania
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04 jetta 1.9 PD
Have you verified that the cam and crank are timed?

I knew there was something I missed. Ill verify that tomorrow. I did pull the valve cover and the cam has very little if any wear on it. I did try to do the timing but couldn't seem to find the TDC mark on the flywheel. After reading more it appears there is none on the flywheel and they're actually both on the timing belt side. (though I'm still a little unclear as to how the crank mark lines up..) looks like there's a bunch of special tools needed to do the timing belt if I end up needing to adjust it?
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Have you verified that the cam and crank are timed?
Very good point. The cam sensor code will be set if the cam timing is way out of range.

The cam sprocket is bolted on to the cam hub with three bolts. The holes in the cam sprocket are slotted to allow for some adjustment. If those bolts aren’t tight enough, the sprocket can turn until the bolts reach the end of the slotted holes.

If that happens, it’s not enough to damage valves, but it is enough to prevent the engine from starting.

Pop the upper timing belt cover off and look at those three bolts. Are they near the middle of the slotted holes? If they’re obviously way off to the end of the slots, then the engine wouldn’t run.

To get the adjustment right, you need to be able to see the “torsion” value in group 04 with VCDS or some others can tool. Should be close to 0.0. Positive or negative values indicate advanced or retarded cam timing.
 

antleo

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04 jetta 1.9 PD
Very good point. The cam sensor code will be set if the cam timing is way out of range.
The cam sprocket is bolted on to the cam hub with three bolts. The holes in the cam sprocket are slotted to allow for some adjustment. If those bolts aren’t tight enough, the sprocket can turn until the bolts reach the end of the slotted holes.
If that happens, it’s not enough to damage valves, but it is enough to prevent the engine from starting.
Pop the upper timing belt cover off and look at those three bolts. Are they near the middle of the slotted holes? If they’re obviously way off to the end of the slots, then the engine wouldn’t run.
To get the adjustment right, you need to be able to see the “torsion” value in group 04 with VCDS or some others can tool. Should be close to 0.0. Positive or negative values indicate advanced or retarded cam timing.
I shall check that. Obdeleven can definitely get that info. I'll check that here shortly.

Edit: just checked this, the bolts are bottomed out. So I'll need to reset timing and try again.. Any good way to do this without the fancy tools?
 
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