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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old October 28th, 2011, 15:05   #1
Softrockrenegade
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Unhappy DPF bit the dust !!!!

I just got my car back from the dealer after dropping it off for a CEL and seems the DPF was clogged as well as the egr filter ??? Any insight into why this happened ? I first got a cel at 1400 miles (p0401) , then on and off around 3500 , and on steady after 5k ...here are the service work order papers !

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Old October 28th, 2011, 15:10   #2
maxedtdi
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That sucks according to a tech buddy of mine the PDF filters are more common of a failure than the fuel pumps
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Old October 28th, 2011, 16:54   #3
eloreno
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Sorry to hear it.. I remember when you bought your car, I was waiting for mine. Here's hoping that was the last kink that needed working out.
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Old October 28th, 2011, 19:50   #4
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Here is what Ross Tech lists for your fault code as symptoms, causes, solutions:

16785/P0401/001025 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System: Insufficient Flow Detected

Possible Symptoms

  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
  • Reduced Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR)
  • Reduced Power Output/Engine running rough
  • Increased Emissions
Possible Causes

  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Flow restricted/clogged
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve stuck closed/leaking/faulty
  • Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve faulty
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System faulty
Possible Solutions

  • Check/Clean Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
  • Check/Replace Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
  • Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve
Here's a schematic of your EGR system courtesy of the narrative:



I really haven't done enough of a read through of documentation to really be able to speak to your questions. There are a number of failures that seem to impact the ability of the system to have "active regeneration" of the DPF. If you do a lot of short drives (city traffic) you may not be running hard enough to get passive regeneration into play. The dealer may be able to access data detailing issues with DPF regeneration. It probably wasn't happening in your system.

Any other symptoms beyond the lights as far as drive ability goes? Have you ever interrupted an active regeneration by shutting down the car? [Typically the engine cooling fan will run for a while after the key is off and you might have detected a burnt plastic smell from the engine compartment].

If you read the narrative you will see that it's a very complex system. With your relatively low mileage you probably have had something amiss from day one. (Out of calibration sensor, vacuum leak, wiring issue, etc).

The dealer ship should hopefully do more than just through parts at your problem. They should be able to pin point the failure issue. Clearly if they don't correct it, you will be in the same boat in another 5K miles. The fact that you've lost the DPF and the LP EGR Filter almost implies that you have an issue with something further down stream in your exhaust circuit that restricted flow through your DPF [NOx Cat, Exhaust Valve, H2S Converter]. Speculation is no substitute for through troubleshooting. Hopefully your dealer will call in a VW troubleshooter (service engineer) to help solve the mystery.

Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune.
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Last edited by specsalot; October 28th, 2011 at 20:00.
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Old October 28th, 2011, 20:46   #5
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Sorry to hear it. If you wanna make me an offer, I have a few spares laying around...
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Old October 28th, 2011, 22:07   #6
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I dont buy the DPF being clogged already with that low miles. If you were even going to consider it, you'd have to ask yourself why it was only CEL and not the DPF lights....you know how outside the normal regen, it's supposed to flash during a forced/emergency regen, and stay on or something a step beyond that when a dealer has to do their magic on it...something to that effect. Based on the info given, I would guess it's all in the EGR system, whatever the problem actually is...but since they are footing the bill, they want to throw a new DPF in too, have at it.
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Old October 28th, 2011, 22:28   #7
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I'm pretty sure that the only way the DPF could possibly be clogged so soon is if there was a bad sensor (or bad ECU) and the DPF was unable to regenerate. I find this doubtful. It is a pity that VW dealers do not understand how their cars function. Understanding how a device works is the most critical thing necessary to fix it (whether it is a car or just a toaster).

I hope any repairs are covered under your warranty. You should not have to pay for their incompetence.

Have Fun!

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Old October 28th, 2011, 22:35   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c17chief View Post
I dont buy the DPF being clogged already with that low miles. If you were even going to consider it, you'd have to ask yourself why it was only CEL and not the DPF lights....you know how outside the normal regen, it's supposed to flash during a forced/emergency regen, and stay on or something a step beyond that when a dealer has to do their magic on it...something to that effect. Based on the info given, I would guess it's all in the EGR system, whatever the problem actually is...but since they are footing the bill, they want to throw a new DPF in too, have at it.
Yep, your comments make absolute sense. If the OP wasn't seeing any kind of performance issues with the vehicle, it's not likely that the DPF or LP EGR filter are actually severely clogged. Sounds like VW is doing a diagnosis by computer print out rather than really fixing the problem. This implies the OP winds up driving home with the same unfixed root cause that he drove in with.

Softrockrenegade - You've got to press your dealer for some answers here. Please keep us posted on what they actually did besides just throwing these parts at the vehicle.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 05:39   #9
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Thanks for all the replies . My driving habits consist of 130 miles a day commute 50/50 highway/city and I really don't baby the throttle. I have interrupted a few regen cycles when stopping for coffee in the am but I don't think that should impact my over all driving enough so that regens weren't doing their job ? The car had no performance issues while the light was on and drove fine ... I asked the service writer what could have caused this and he said it was due to a leak and just said it shouldn't happen again ! I also suspect something wiring/computer related but I'll just have to wait and see.

Edit: one other thing , when I picked the car up on my way home it had the longest,roughest regen cycle I have ever caught while stuck in traffic with the brand new filter ....?
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Old October 29th, 2011, 06:04   #10
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given your driving habbits like you said is 130 miles a day 50/50 seems the vehicle should have no issues on regen.
But if your doing a lot of in town driving after work, or on the weekends it could slowly clog up the dpf and egr. its not uncommon to see this happen to a lot of in town driviers or people who think they get the regen cycle going but in fact they interupt it or dont let the vehicle do it at all.

The top and bottom pressure sensors check the pressure of the dpf, if they do not match they check flow and by this time its usually weak and it throws a CEL on or the DPF light will come on, which is instructing you to go drive it and make it preform a regen cycle. It could have been when it first came on, you maybe did more city driving or the regen cycle did not complete. after getting a little bit clogged then it just kept slowly getting more and more clogged.
If all 3 lights come on the clsuter then the DPF is shot and needs to be replaced with the EGR as well. I saw a jsw with lower miles have a dpf failure, but she did do all city driving.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 06:15   #11
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I could accept the city driving thing if the car had over 100k on it but after 5k no way.... By the way when I say city I just mean roads with traffic lights... I still can drive the car pretty spirited In town lol..
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Old October 29th, 2011, 06:20   #12
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WOW...this is a lot to digest. My driving habits are similar to yours Softrockrenegade and I'm curious as to how often you experience re-gen cycles. I have abt 28,000 miles on my '10 Golf TDI and I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I actually noticed the car in an active re-gen. cycle. Highway distance driving is supposed to be good for passive cleaning of the DPF and active cycles are supposed to be occurring less frequently. I'm curious to know if active cycles were occurring quite frequently for you before you brought the car in. It also amazes me that you had an active re-gen cycle driving home from the dealer after they replaced the filter. you are supposed to go at least 550 miles between active re-gens. It sounds like they did not cover all bases. Its fine now because you are still under warranty, but this $#!^'s not gonna fly when you're footing the bill down the road! Hold these people accountable!
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Old October 29th, 2011, 06:36   #13
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I have seen a handful of a couple new TDI jetta's with DPF failures with less then 5K on them. Only because they drive in town, they never take it out to get warmed up or burn the soot off.

its not totally just spirited driving that you need, the system needs to be warmed up, and needs to get to temp in order to preform the regen. So if your only driving from your house, through the city light to light to light and then the store, and then back home or picking the kiddies up at school, and its never getting hot enough or the speed/rpms getting to where they need to be to activate the regen then you will not have one, and eventually the DPF will clog and you will get the CEL and DPF light.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 06:54   #14
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But you should have warnings, right? As someone mentioned before. The first time you get a CEL and the DPF light is not supposed to be when it is absolutely too late.

I am reading this with interest as my wife's normal commute is 2 miles each way.
She does take the interstate to the city once a week or so - 15 miles or so.

In the first 11,000 miles of operation, she has only interrupted the regen function 3 times.

It would sure be nice to have a "Regen in progress" flag. But that would probably bother the average driver.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 07:01   #15
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Never had the dpf light just a cel .. I get it up to speed(60-80mph) monday through Friday) on my commute to work(65 miles each way) so I don't think that was my issue .... A little in town driving on the weekends should have no affect on my car considering the amount of miles I drive durring the week !!
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