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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old June 11th, 2019, 20:29   #1
3L3M3NT
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Question GTB2262VKLR 11 Blade vs 6+6 Blade and watercooling ?

I've decided to upgrade my GTB2260VK to a GTB2262VKLR on my track car (RTDI) while the turbo is out of the car.

The one thing that I can't fully make my mind up on is should I go with an 11 blade or a 6+6 compressor wheel in the upgraded turbo?

I know that the turbo should spool a little bit faster going from a journal bearing turbo to a ball bearing turbo, which has me leaning towards the 11 blade compressor wheel, since it's supposed to spool a little bit slower than a 6+6, but have more top end flow which would be a good thing out on the track.

On the other hand the 6+6 will spool sooner which has it's advantages when coming out of a corner and already being on boost versus having to wait that extra second or two for the 11 blade to spool.

Could someone explain the difference between the different generation compressor wheels that are out there? Gen I vs. Gen II?

One last question... do the GTB2060VKLR/GTB2260VKLR turbos need to be watercooled?
Some people aren't running any coolant through their turbos and aren't having any problems. Then there are people that are adamant that the turbo is watercooled to run it safely.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 21:58   #2
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I think its just marketing and no real difference that you can feel between the 2 compressors.
This upgrade doesnt make much sense for what you are spending. I prefer the VK , not big fan of vklr.
There is no compressor flow made public to say one is better than the other in terms of gen1 and gen2 ..
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Old June 11th, 2019, 21:59   #3
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So watercooling helps prevent the bearing and oil from getting to hot. I have also read it prevents or helps to prevent oil from coking forming carbon residue and choking the tight oil clearances. The 11 blade will help top end but you should review a turbo flow map not just take my word for it.

Ps read Cory Bell's Turbocharging book if you really want to understand turbocharging. Some bastard stole my copy his name was Ian Prick (pretty sure that's his last name).
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Old June 11th, 2019, 22:02   #4
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Ian is not on this forum and this is not ment to any member here. Please dont ban me. Just missing my book so I could help out a fellow member!
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Old June 11th, 2019, 22:11   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3L3M3NT View Post
which has me leaning towards the 11 blade compressor wheel, since it's supposed to spool a little bit slower than a 6+6, but have more top end flow which would be a good thing out on the track.
generally a single height inducer flows less volume, but has more stable airflow at higher pressure ratios

think of the 6+6 as being a 12 blade compressor with an additional 6 blade fan force feeding it
'swhy anti-surge porting works with it well (and why the slot is at the height of the lower blades), it increases the volume flow in the sparsely bladed portion of the compressor

On the water cooling, a journal bearing turbo sees a lot of oil flow compared to a ball bearing turbo, so the center housing can use that large oil flow as its coolant. I'd imagine the ball bearings making for oil foaming if they ran enough flow to cool the components. Though on the other side of the coin, the water cooling is also there for cooling after shutdown where convection will make the coolant continue to flow. This is more important on a DPF car where you'll see stupid high EGTs even at idle, and the turbing housing will take quite a while to cool down from 1200F.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 22:12   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macradiators.com View Post
I think its just marketing and no real difference that you can feel between the 2 compressors.
This upgrade doesnt make much sense for what you are spending. I prefer the VK , not big fan of vklr.
There is no compressor flow made public to say one is better than the other in terms of gen1 and gen2 ..
I was wondering how much of a difference I would feel between the 11 blade and the 6+6.

I guess I'll find out if going to the vklr is worth it when I get everything running the way it's supposed to.

I wish they would release some kind of data showing how gen 2 is better than gen 1 versus taking their word that gen 2 is better than gen1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racerxtdi View Post
So watercooling helps prevent the bearing and oil from getting to hot. I have also read it prevents or helps to prevent oil from coking forming carbon residue and choking the tight oil clearances. The 11 blade will help top end but you should review a turbo flow map not just take my word for it.

Ps read Cory Bell's Turbocharging book if you really want to understand turbocharging. Some bastard stole my copy his name was Ian Prick (pretty sure that's his last name).
Sounds like I'll have to figure out how to watercool the turbo, since I'd like to keep it running as long as possible.

Anyone have any pictures on how they connected the water lines to their heater core lines? Since I've read that's the easiest spot to tie into.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 22:21   #7
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No, there are no flow numbers/maps
They saw that EFR and Garrett started point milling compressors ..so KTS started doing that also. And now instead of 80 euro/cw you pay 130+ 2% more flow they claim.
Could be..

There are no real numbers..or back to back comparison on the same car/setup.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 16:27   #8
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I have a 2260vklr on the way and it was suggested that the water cooling was not needed. There are a couple of threads mentioning the same thing possibly due to our much smaller displacement, but realize you're tracking a lot with your car! I'd be willing to run coolant through it properly if it sped up warmup times as I've got low pressure EGR coolant lines bypassed right there.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 19:53   #9
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Would a small electric pump be a bad idea, you could run it after shutdown to really ensure turbo cooling happened quickly

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Old June 12th, 2019, 20:01   #10
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Would a small electric pump be a bad idea, you could run it after shutdown to really ensure turbo cooling happened quickly

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unnecessary
water boils at 250ish under radiator pressure
meaning it percolates water through just like a coffee maker at a temperature well below where oil cokes

just follow the mounting guidelines with it tilted 25 degrees or so from vertical so the water ports have as much vertical separation as possible
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Old June 12th, 2019, 20:22   #11
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Originally Posted by [486] View Post
unnecessary
water boils at 250ish under radiator pressure
meaning it percolates water through just like a coffee maker at a temperature well below where oil cokes

just follow the mounting guidelines with it tilted 25 degrees or so from vertical so the water ports have as much vertical separation as possible
I never knew pressure had that little affect on temp, I always assumed it would be above 300 at 15ish PSI...with that being said I agree that it is unnecessary...sure 212 to 250 is better than nothing but I thought it'd be higher...

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Old June 12th, 2019, 21:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macradiators.com View Post
No, there are no flow numbers/maps
They saw that EFR and Garrett started point milling compressors ..so KTS started doing that also. And now instead of 80 euro/cw you pay 130+ 2% more flow they claim.
Could be..

There are no real numbers..or back to back comparison on the same car/setup.
You're probably right that there isn't a huge increase from one wheel to the other, but they have to do something to get people to buy products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adjat84th View Post
I have a 2260vklr on the way and it was suggested that the water cooling was not needed. There are a couple of threads mentioning the same thing possibly due to our much smaller displacement, but realize you're tracking a lot with your car! I'd be willing to run coolant through it properly if it sped up warmup times as I've got low pressure EGR coolant lines bypassed right there.
With running the car hard on the track then you're probably right that I should play it safe and hook up the water lines. If you beat me to installing the turbo could you take some pictures of where you teed into the cooling system.

What compressor wheel did you go with?

Quote:
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Would a small electric pump be a bad idea, you could run it after shutdown to really ensure turbo cooling happened quickly

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After coming off the track we let the car cool down till the EGTs hit 400 degrees F and pop the hood open to let as much heat escape as possible too. I know gas cars have turbo timers on them that keep the car running a certain time to cool the turbo.

I think some people in the drag racing world will have quick fit coolant connections, so they can plug different lines back at the pits to continue circulating coolant through the engine to help cool it down.
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Old July 4th, 2019, 05:54   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3L3M3NT View Post
With running the car hard on the track then you're probably right that I should play it safe and hook up the water lines. If you beat me to installing the turbo could you take some pictures of where you teed into the cooling system.
What compressor wheel did you go with?
This is going on my '15 Golf so the water lines for the LP EGR are right below the turbo if needed to tee into. I am not going to go that route as it's not needed.

Went with the 11 blade billet wheel. Realistically looking to get 230whp/380wtq until I get going on the cylinder head work.
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Old July 6th, 2019, 20:30   #14
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Originally Posted by adjat84th View Post
This is going on my '15 Golf so the water lines for the LP EGR are right below the turbo if needed to tee into. I am not going to go that route as it's not needed.
Went with the 11 blade billet wheel. Realistically looking to get 230whp/380wtq until I get going on the cylinder head work.
I'm not sure if there are even EGR lines on my car to even tie into, since my car started it's life with a 3.2L VR6 in it. My best bet is to tie into the heater hoses.

My turbo is supposed to be here on Monday, so hopefully we can start putting it back together asap.

I'm hoping that I'll like to switch to the BB turbo and the 11 blade CW. With the standard GTB2260VK, my car made 286 AWHP and 404 lb-ft of torque, so you should have no problem making 230 WHP and 380 WTQ with a GTB2260VKLR with an 11 blade CW. I'll be looking forward to seeing how your car does with that turbo, especially after you get the headwork done.
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