any info on the IDParts Quiet SMF Clutch & Flywheel

i am in need of doing the clutch on my golf its at 300k and rattling so time for the smf conversion. only mods i would do down the road would be little bigger nozzles and a tune will the idparts package hold that? i am assuming it is just the sachs quiet clutch with idparts name on it but cant find any info to support that

Yea, ID doesn't make clutches, they put together kits. I would contact them for specs, they're very helpful. Then you can see just how much power they can handle.

Searching around here will also give you a pretty good idea.

A Luk 17-050 DMF is both quiet and capable of handling mild mods: I just put one in the wife's car- DLC520s and a Malone Stage 2 tune; I've pressed it a bit and so far it seems to be holding- long-term I cannot say, though this is the wife's car, which means that it won't really be hammered on. If you look to step up from something like this then you're going to be spending a good $200 (or more): I shelled out $500 for a DC Stage 1 [SMF] clutch (my car) and that gave me a lot of piece of mind, as well as a lighter wallet.

Mod-creep can get you. I went with DLC520 nozzles because that would pretty much cap me at a Stage 3 tune, not enough to threaten the DC Stage 1 clutch (son's Golf has equivalent nozzles and a State 3 tune with a Luk 17-050 [though this might be a slightly older and more robust copy?] and it holds the power). Start sizing up the turbo and then all bets are off. Try to get your plans/requirements correct up front: swapping clutches isn't a lot of fun.

I want to get away from the dmf I like to take failure points out of the equation when possible. The only reason I would do nozzles is I have 300k on the stock ones figure at some point here it would probably be good to replace them other than that I don’t need another project on my hands my truck takes up that spot all the time with rebuilding or a motor swap body work air ride or audio in it I have more than my hands full with it

I have contacted peter on this as I am thinking about buying it in the near future. He said it should hold about 275-300 ftlb at the flywheel. So like 240ftlb at the tire would probably be the max.

baggedmazda said:

I want to get away from the dmf I like to take failure points out of the equation when possible. The only reason I would do nozzles is I have 300k on the stock ones figure at some point here it would probably be good to replace them other than that I don’t need another project on my hands my truck takes up that spot all the time with rebuilding or a motor swap body work air ride or audio in it I have more than my hands full with it

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And yet, stock DMFs can last upwards of 300k miles. Only a handful fail significantly, and that's usually because the owners/drivers aren't paying attention.

SMFs aren't immune from failure (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=341888), so don't kid yourself.

With no real modifications expected, AND with 300k miles, I don't see any reason to go with an SMF (over a well proven Luk 17-050). I highly doubt that you're going to be running this car to the point of wearing out another clutch (existing DMF has done 300k miles- exactly what is offensive about this? you haven't even opened things up to see whether it's messed up [to the degree that everyone frets about]).

I actually tossed out a Valeo SMF (same as what the person in the thread I linked to above) out of the wife's car. Maybe only had 80k miles on it. The clutch was stiff and it was a bit chattery. I honestly expected it to be a DMF (that was in the early stages of failing- car had 200k miles on it). Nope. So, I actually went from SMF to DMF and this car has more power than you're saying that you'd even consider.

Last comment on DMFs, and that's that the one in my 6spd Golf (02m) is absolutely a great setup. This car is running same nozzles (DLC520s, injectors set for higher flow) and tune as my other cars but it has an 11mm IP.

I know you guys are talking about straight drives but my DMF on a DSG failed at 160K miles. Wish it would have lasted to 300k. I'm at 200k now and know that I will be on my third at 320k on a stock car. I don't know how it will hold up if I start with a tune and go from there.

I have installed this in my 02 bug five speed and it is quiet and easy on the foot. Holds with ease stage 2 Malone tune and dlc520 nozzles. A great replacement for the DMF Sachs the car came with.
http://www.cascadegerman.com/product/clutch-and-flywheel-kit-mk3-mk4-mk5-tdi-silent/

I installed a Quiet SMF kit in a ladies 2003 Jetta from IDparts. She loves it!

I have never seen a DMF last 300K. Clutches yes but not the DMF. Usually by 150-200K they are in pretty bad shape. I personally would never reinstall one but that's me.

baggedmazda: the IDParts clutch will work perfectly for your needs. We had these private labeled for us by a company that does clutch manufacturing for a lot of OE and other big brands. The fit and finish, overall quality is comparable or superior to any of the other aftermarket options out there.

Our IDParts unit is comparable to the Valeo SMF package, meaning it will hold stock+ power. A mild chip tune and nozzles will be no problem. If you are considering a turbo upgrade or big hole nozzles (PP764s, Race etc.) you'd better off with a Sach 660 unit or one from SBC.

The original owner is a few shops down from me talk to him all the time I honestly think he really misses the car lol but yeah completely original dmf and clutch

turbocharged798 said:

I have never seen a DMF last 300K. Clutches yes but not the DMF. Usually by 150-200K they are in pretty bad shape. I personally would never reinstall one but that's me.

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I recently replaced the OE LUK clutch and DMF in my '99.5 Golf (with the IDParts kit, BTW ) at 255K. Clutch was pretty much worn, flywheel was on its last legs.

And we also recently replaced the OE Sachs clutch and flywheel in my son's '02 Golf. 340K. It was still working fine, but the clutch was worn out and the flywheel was pretty loose. This was a one-owner and one driver car until 265K, which I think helps a lot.

turbocharged798 said:

I have never seen a DMF last 300K. Clutches yes but not the DMF. Usually by 150-200K they are in pretty bad shape. I personally would never reinstall one but that's me.

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Responding to my comments, I'm assuming. IBW backed me up (now you can adjust your knowledge of DMFs based on facts).

The DMF in my 2000 Jetta was just fine at 291k miles ........... changed it only as PM while I had the tranny out........... it and the clutch would have been fine for another 50k miles in my opinion!

I've been running a "used" DMF (had a 129k miles on it) for the last 68k miles. So, it has approximately 189k and seems fine.

If anyone wants a slightly used (80k-ish?) Valeo SMF I'd be happy to give it away, though one would have to pay shipping. Not warrantied.

My first DMF went at 180K, was shaking the whole car and causing the engine to shudder like crazy. Second went at 137K(different car but same crap). In both cases clutch was good.

I considering a proper SMF has really no drawbacks I don't see the reason to put a DMF back in.

With my first golf the original dmf was still fine at 340,000km or 212,500 miles when I upgraded.
On my son's golf the dmf finally quit at 475,000km or 296,000 miles.

....which I consider to be pretty damn good.

MAXMOO, I had two different flywheel set-ups in my ALH Vanagon and never liked either (too noisy). So, last spring, I installed a DMF kit ........... I love it!

Those who have the DSG tranny, if I understand correctly, there is no other option than a DMF ...

They should not be noisy if you use the correct TDI flywheel. AHU and 1Z engines came with single mass flywheels from the factory.

Clutch disc design, not the flywheel, determines whether or not you hear noise at idle in neutral. The G60/VR6 clutch disc has a solid hub that allows the transmission output shaft to rattle. The "Quiet" clutch that was OE on the '96-99 MKIII and B4 cars has a floating hub that keeps the shaft from rattling.

Peter, do you know why VW opted to switch out those SMFs for DMFs in later years?

I've got an SMF in my old Ford IDI truck. Anyone complaining about rattle ought to drive my truck! (reverse is absolutely horrible as it seem the gearing is to high- you cannot creep at all without it feeling like a bucking bronco!)

I had a Jetta that ran the original DMF and clutch to 299K miles before I removed the drivetrain and sold it off. Both aforementioned items were probably good for another 20 to 30K miles I think. I still have the DMF, flywheel and clutch sitting up in the shop if anyone wants to see what they look like.

The did to reduce noise and vibration. A MKIV car with a DMF is smoother than a MKIII with an SMF. And the difference in smoothness between SMF and DMF in a MKIV is detectable, although not dramatic, in my opinion.

DMFs are very, very common in all vehicles these days.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Clutch disc design, not the flywheel, determines whether or not you hear noise at idle in neutral. The G60/VR6 clutch disc has a solid hub that allows the transmission output shaft to rattle. The "Quiet" clutch that was OE on the '96-99 MKIII and B4 cars has a floating hub that keeps the shaft from rattling.

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Clutch design is the determinant, yes, but the Sachs aftermarket VR6 disc has a sprung hub or, at least it used to. Are you saying that new stock versions are now solid hub?

Sprung or not, the VR6 and MKIII/B4 Single mass clutch have different hubs. VR6 causes a rattle, OE replacement does not.

The Sachs TDI and VR6 discs are different. The TDI disc has two pairs of hub springs with a difference in wire diameter between the pairs. All springs are about 0.140" longer and about the same OD as the VR6 disc and the hub has approx. 0.250" longer hub travel slots which limit the amount of inner hub rotation relative to the disc "frame". The VR6 disc has 4 equal size springs of the same wire diameter as the TDI's heavier spring pair. The TDI disc friction material looks a bit different and feels as if it has a slightly higher friction coefficient than the VR6 disc, but that may be attributable to different factories (TDI - Germany, VR6 - Slovakia).

So, you could make a case that the different hub construction might not withstand as much torque as the VR6 disc, but Sachs won't help you make that case: Sachs supplies that same TDI disc in its Powerclutch kit for TDI/G60/2.0 16V kits, which is rated, by vendors, at least, to 350 ft./lbs.

So I guess you just answered your own question.

SBC now uses TDI discs with modified friction material and clamping force that hold in excess of 350 torque.

Is it then, therefore, just the pressure plate that's different with the different setups (stage 2, 3 etc; until, that is, you get up into the need to hold more than that kind of torque)?

Clamping force is increased a small amount, about 20%. More than that and folks worry about crank bearing wear, which has been an issue in some cars with Sachs Power Clutches. Most of the additional grip comes from improved friction materials.