MPG and power improvements best bang for the buck?

coffeefor2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
Smithfield, VA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I've had my Jetta for about a year and am ready to start looking into some mod. I do realize there is tradeoffs in both MPG and power improvements but are there improvements that will help both?

I'm an open book and looking to maximize both or even to come to a happy medium where I don't loose what I have. Any suggestions and comments are more than welcome.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
There are no power improvemnts that will help with economy. Once you use the power the economy suffers. You can make some power improvements and when not using them show some added economy. The best economy improvement you can make is your right foot. There is the biggest bang for the buck you will ever find. It works with mods too! Chipping the car will get you some extra power and keeping your right foot out of it most of the time will maintain your economy.

This is my dyno sheet with RC2 installed:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=43856&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=36337

My economy hasn't changed if I drive properly for it. 143 hp and 253 ft/lb of torque.
 

ruking

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Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
I have a 5 spd manual and have seen many a discussion on the affects, effects in/on both manual and auto transmissions. Since you have a DSG, I have not seen any discussion on how hp/torque increases affect/effects the DSG transmission.

Everyone seems to be wanting to see how they are doing at (40,000 mile DSG transmission fluild change intervals) 40,000, 80,000, 120,000, 160,000 miles, etc (sans modifications) . So add me to the "inquiring minds want to know" list.:D.

Off topic, for me this would solve the significant other's not wanting to shift concerns, let me get the latest 2009 TDI and bypass the hit one takes on the automatic transmission.
 
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Joe_Meehan

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Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
#1 mileage mod is the little old lady driving style. It is free, 100% reversible and totally safe. However it is in direct opposition to the power improvements effect on your driving style.

Really the very best thing you can do to increase mileage is a very easy foot on the accelerator.

I understand that some chips may help in the performance end and may up the mileage for the more aggressive driver. But if you are really looking for improved mileage, just keep the standard maintenance up and drive like you really want better mileage.
 

njkayaker

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
coffeefor2 said:
but are there improvements that will help both
Provide some history about the mpg you currently get.

If you get 30 mpg, there are easy ways of improving mpg.
If you get 50 mpg, there are no easy ways of improving mpg.
 

DFWDieselJet

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
Flower Mound TX
TDI
04 Jetta
So far I've tried these "mods" and gotten these results:

- Kerma Aligator tune: No detectable increase in MPG, huge increase in fun. Big $$$s.
- Switched from 505.01 to Mobile ESP 5W30 (507): No detectable increase in MPG, no increase in fun :( Small $$$s.
- Pumped tires to 44PSI: very small increase in MPG (perhaps 1 MPG), small increase in fun (don't roll as much in turns). NO $$$!
- Removed px side mirror and front plate (lame attempt at aero improvements), small increase in highway MPH (perhaps 1 MPG), nothing around town, less fun. NO $$$!
- Got a Scangauge II: Real increase in MPG (about 3 MPG better), huge increse in fun (gotta love gadgets!), moderate $$$s.
- Run Power Service + acetone: Small increase in MPG (about 1 MPG), no increase in fun, small $$$s.

The only thing left on my list is replacing the 215-55-15 aftermarket tires that were on my car whan I bought it with LRR 195-60-15 ties. I expect one or two MPG boost.


FYI, my current average MPG is 42.7 MPG. Very consistent.
YMMV.

Enjoy!
Gene
 

coffeefor2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
Smithfield, VA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I'm currently getting 42-43 MPG on almost every tank when I'm driving. I do understand most the MPG issue comes from right foot but my foot is MUCH lighter than my wifes.:D If, by chance, I get out on the interstates, I've been able to push it a little higher but not much.

What I'm really looking for are some simple mods (Chips, larger exhaust, larger nozzles, mufflerectomy.... whatever) that will improve the power when I want it but not loose any MPG when I'm just tooling around town. I've seen so many mods listed for power increase but not many mention what they do for MPG changes.

DFWDieselJet, I love the gadgets also! I've been thinkin about the Ross-Teck but I have to sneek it in under the wifes radar.;)
 

NFSTDI

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Sunny California :)
TDI
'98 Jetta
Just get an RC and be done with it. Gator works too but I love my RC. I have to be careful not to spin the tires when the light turns green. My economy is unchanged.

Everyone talks about the right foot mod. I agree although I advocate more gas and less brake. I drive my car like I stole it but I also anticipate and go easy on my brakes. Yes, pushing the go pedal uses fuel, but that's not the issue at least I don't think it is. If you don't want to use fuel, don't drive.

I look think about how I can conserve fuel without compromising my driving style. Less brakes is not only faster it's more economical. My mother is one of the fastest drivers I have ever seen on any mountain road. At least she used to be. Primarily because her first car was a sports car and in college bo taught her to drive without using her brakes much. When you are in her car you don't realize how fast she is going because she is smooth. When you attempt to follow her you realize she's moving at a good clip.
 
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2004PassatTDI

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Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
NW Burb of Chicago
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan, 2016 E250 Sport
“#1 mileage mod is the little old lady driving style. It is free, 100% reversible and totally safe. However it is in direct opposition to the power improvements effect on your driving style. Really the very best thing you can do to increase mileage is a very easy foot on the accelerator.”

100% Spot On!


“Everyone talks about the right foot mod. I agree although I advocate more gas and less brake. I drive my car like I stole it but I also anticipate and go easy on my brakes. Yes, pushing the gas pedal uses gas, but that's not the issue at least I don't think it is.

50% Spot On!

There is no magic to this. Accelerate slowly. Shift to the next gear at a lower RPM. Look further ahead so that you can anticipate traffic conditions. Drive like your car has no brakes. When going down hills, anticipate that your car will speed up due to gravity, so ease off the accelerator a bit as you crest the hill.

Driving for MPGs required me to study the driving environment much more. Obviously you need to drive for MPGs in a safe manner, which increases the amount of thinking you have to do, since most of the drivers are not doing so (thinking and driving for MPGs). You will be the odd man out, and may make it unsafe for you and those around you. As others change their driving style, driving for MPGs should get safer, require less thinking, and become more enjoyable.

My recent MAX tank run wore me out with all the considerations related to the speed differential of other cars and trucks. I won’t be doing another MAX tank run for a long time. It was too much of an hassle and potentially unsafe.

Drive for good MPGs when traffic conditions allow it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=213606
 

OilcanHairy

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Location
Raleigh NC
TDI
2002 Jetta auto., 2004 Jetta stick
My wife drives her '02 Jetta automatic like she just robbed a bank with it, plus there's that nasty commute down I40 to RTP weekdays.. she's actually forced mpg down into the high 30's with a/c running & surrounded by nondriving yuppie sheep! Went to Florida a few weeks ago, & running @ 75-82 mph with a/c used intermittently we saw 46 mpg. Gave the little b*stard a mufflerectomy this morning & tanked it up- I'll let y'all know if there's any appreciable dif. Cheep too- 50 smackers, & he even threw in a groovy chrome turn-down tip.
 

McBrew

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Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
Yes, the "right foot mod" is the number one way to increase economy.

As Gene mentioned above, a ScanGaugeII is really handy for improving your fuel economy. Not only that, but it is a code reader, trip meter, and tells you all sorts of other things, too.

Use LRR tires, such as the ones VW sold the cars with, and keep them pumped up. I switched to snow tires and it took a good 3-4 MG off.

If you use a roof rack, remove it when it is not needed.

Mostly, though, it is about driving smarter. If you have a lot of hills in your area, it is best (for fuel economy) to gain speed when nearing the bottom of a hill, then let that extra speed bleed off on the uphill portion. Of course, use common sense and drive safely.

A long portion of my daily commute is on a 50 MPH country highway. When traffic is slow, and moving at ~50 MPH, my mileage easily creeps up above 50 MPG. When traffic is moving along at 60 MPH, my mileage creeps down into the high 40s. On a 65-70 MPH stretch, it creeps down to the low 40s. Once I get on slower roads, my average climbs back up. People claim to get really good mileage at high speeds, but without a ScanGauge, you don't see that high speed kills mileage, and slow speeds bring it back up.

Note: My mileage would be better if not for the hills. Most of the roads I am driving on hug the coast and go from near 0' above sea level to 175' above sea level... many times.
 

njkayaker

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
coffeefor2 said:
I'm currently getting 42-43 MPG on almost every tank when I'm driving. I do understand most the MPG issue comes from right foot but my foot is MUCH lighter than my wifes.:D If, by chance, I get out on the interstates, I've been able to push it a little higher but not much.
I drive 55-65 mph on highways and have a life-time average of 47 mpg (it looks like the average is increasing). If you are driving 80 mph or have lots of stop-and-go, 42 might not be so bad. It looks like it is harder getting high mpg if your trips are short.

Joe_Meehan said:
Certainly not the issue for those of us using diesel. :rolleyes:
This "joke" never gets tired. (Never mind, it does!)
 
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coffeefor2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
Smithfield, VA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
OK. I get driving for MPG. But I'm looking for that extra "umpf" when I need to jump into 75-80 MPH trafic on the interstates around me without loosing anything during my usual commute.

Other than a chip, are there any other mods that will yield more power when you need it but not take away from MPG when you don't? I've been thinking about uping the exhaust to 3" and maybe removing the muffler or going to a high flow system. I understand this allows the turbo to spin up faster when you jump on it. Does change anything on the other end though?
 

McBrew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
Other than a chip, are there any other mods that will yield more power when you need it but not take away from MPG when you don't?
Sprint 520 nozzles.
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
HP per Dollar spent, you cannot beat RC1+ for your model of car.

Very little adverse effect on MPGs providing YOU control your urges....

Get the scan-gauge also, they are quite worthwhile.

See post #6 by DFWDieseljet, he summed it up nicely.

Bill
 

Gil

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Location
Wallingford CT
TDI
2002 auto wagon and 2004 stick
I will have to differ somewhat with many of the other posts.
My 04 picked up 6 mpg after RC1+, from 38 to 44.
My 02 automatic was the same at 38 mpg with RC2 and .185 nozzles.
.
 

coffeefor2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
Smithfield, VA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
DFWDieselJet - I looked at the Scangauge site yesterday, cool gadget. I assume this helps with MPG by making you aware of what's going on?

I was trying to see if there was a readout for the turbo boost but it doesn't look like it. Does it give you any turbo feedback?

So far, this is what I'm thinking:

=> Will be doing the RC1 or RC2. Not sure what level yet.
=> I'm thinking the .205 or .185 nozzles.
=> Already pumped up the tires to 44PSI a few weeks ago.
=> I'm thinking a larger exhaust system or mufflerectomy. Not so much for a MPG gain but for a "That sounds cool!" :cool:
=> Still a little on the fence on the Scangauge. With the MFD, I don't see this as a big advantage. I might just bit the bullet and get the VAG-COM setup, I just added an 01 gas Jetta to the home "Fleet".

My last question in a lagistical one. If I'm dong the rocketchip, should I get evrything done at once? Wouldn't a change in the nozzles change the chip in some way? From what I've read, the rocketchip if self learning, will it tune itself to the new nozzles?

Thanks again for all the help.:)
 

Lightflyer1

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Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I don't think you can use those nozzles with this engine or need them right now. The stock ones from what I hear are good enough to 170 hp.
 

Rickstah

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Feb 5, 2002
Location
Yukon, Oklahoma
TDI
NB, 2002, green, Eurotek STG1
You can also improve your mileage by thinking in terms a bit differently than improvements to mpg based on driving inputs. Look at your driving habits...do you make five trips to Walmart a week, or jump in the car and drive several miles for a latte several times a week? Do you always drive someplace at lunch? If you can reduce the total miles you regularly drive in a week your overall increase in mileage attained will be definitely measurable, even though it will be different than what your vehicle attains while running. It's all about gallons of diesel used per x amount of time where budgets are concerned, imo.

Now...after saying that, I live to get on the turnpike when going to the other side of town, snicker. That straightaway to 75 mph is what I call my "soot removal corridor", and I simply banish anything having to do with fuel conservation from my mind for that stretch, baby! :eek: Christine, she talks to me during those few seconds...we bond...we commune...we makey the black smoke! :p We get dirty looks from people who pass us when we settle back into the speed limit, too, but still.. :)
 

rpaull3

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
central mass
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
ok guys enough about the right foot mod. I'll ask this question again because I've now owned 2 mkIV jetta TDIs and the first one being a 2000 never got below 43mpg regardless of my driving style. The second being 2002 never gets above 44mpg regardless of how i drive it. I'm thinking something is seriously wrong... I would easily get 49mpg in the 00. If i drove hard i got 46, if I drove insane passing uphill and so on I still got no less than 43 ever. So in all seriousness... what gives? what should I start looking at on the 02? I already had a front wheel alignment shortly after buying it, which was 2" off. That raised my mileage by 1-2... my wheel bearings seem fine. my brake pads arent sticking... The only thing I can think of is my MAF sensor. But no I don't get more power when I unplug it, I get less. My turbo is sticking ever so slightly, was previously causing an overboost but I bought a mityvac and adjusted the turbo to 18" of vac actuator hits stop. Any ideas?
 

Steve Addy

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Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
ok guys enough about the right foot mod. I'll ask this question again because I've now owned 2 mkIV jetta TDIs and the first one being a 2000 never got below 43mpg regardless of my driving style. The second being 2002 never gets above 44mpg regardless of how i drive it. I'm thinking something is seriously wrong... I would easily get 49mpg in the 00. If i drove hard i got 46, if I drove insane passing uphill and so on I still got no less than 43 ever. So in all seriousness... what gives? what should I start looking at on the 02? I already had a front wheel alignment shortly after buying it, which was 2" off. That raised my mileage by 1-2... my wheel bearings seem fine. my brake pads arent sticking... The only thing I can think of is my MAF sensor. But no I don't get more power when I unplug it, I get less. My turbo is sticking ever so slightly, was previously causing an overboost but I bought a mityvac and adjusted the turbo to 18" of vac actuator hits stop. Any ideas?
Have you checked your IP timing with VCDS to make sure it's where it should be? That would be the first thing I'd do.

Steve
 

Lightflyer1

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Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Trade for another 2000? You posted in someones thread from 2008. Generally better to start your own for "your" own issues.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Mar 23, 2014
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Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Nothing wrong using another thread, some people around here are so anal. :rolleyes:

What's RC1, RC2? etc.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Not if you don't mind getting confused with the OP and their issues. Not to mention the next person who comes along searching for their answer and finds a bunch of garbled up threads. No need for the sarcasm. There is such a thing as forum etiquette and it helps in the long run if posters try to use it. RC1,RC2 are tune stages by Rocketchip.
 
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turbovan+tdi

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Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
There is still nothing wrong with using someone elses thread if you have the same problem. I am on numerous sites and this one is the only one that goes ape ****tt over someone doing this. As the saying goes, if you don't like it, don't post. Hell, on my turbo mopar site, we'll dig up threads 8 years old if the info or problem is relavant.

Thanks for the info.
 

UhOh

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Dec 24, 2014
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PNW
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2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Regarding digging up old threads, I believe that it's perfectly good IF it adds to the DISCUSSION. I emphasized "discussion" because that's what we're all doing here- sharing information! Someone in the future can, perhaps, provide answers, answers that followers can benefit from. So, on to addressing this latest question....

ok guys enough about the right foot mod. I'll ask this question again because I've now owned 2 mkIV jetta TDIs and the first one being a 2000 never got below 43mpg regardless of my driving style. The second being 2002 never gets above 44mpg regardless of how i drive it. I'm thinking something is seriously wrong... I would easily get 49mpg in the 00. If i drove hard i got 46, if I drove insane passing uphill and so on I still got no less than 43 ever. So in all seriousness... what gives? what should I start looking at on the 02? I already had a front wheel alignment shortly after buying it, which was 2" off. That raised my mileage by 1-2... my wheel bearings seem fine. my brake pads arent sticking... The only thing I can think of is my MAF sensor. But no I don't get more power when I unplug it, I get less. My turbo is sticking ever so slightly, was previously causing an overboost but I bought a mityvac and adjusted the turbo to 18" of vac actuator hits stop. Any ideas?
After cleaning my intake manifold in my car my mpgs jumped up: the jury is still a bit out on how much it's done for my wife's car. Replaced front wheel bearing. Replaced rear axle bushings. This last one, rear axle bushings, I believe really did have an effect, perhaps 1-2 mpg: figure it like an out of balance wheel. Fixed leaks in a couple of tires: psi set to 38 on both cars (am thinking of dropping it back down for improved ride and safety). Other things to consider:

- Snow screen
- Boost leak
- MAF (testing via unplugging can only tell you if you have a crapped-out MAF, not one that's failing/degraded)
- CAT plugged?

You'd be surprised at how a little problem here and a little problem there is able to compound. Best is to make sure everything is top-notch. This is what I'm endeavoring to do with my two "new" cars: I'm 7 months into them now and am just about now getting there- both are getting 50+mpg (though highway, and, for mine, driven with a good understanding of how to maximize mpgs). I now plan on doing a Malone 1.5 tune with DLC520 nozzles (on balanced injectors), with the expectation of being able to pick up 3mpg (getting 50mpg w/o trying hard).
 

rpaull3

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
central mass
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
ok sorry it took so long to update you guys. Yes I cleaned my intake, and used VCDS to check my timing. Timing is perfect. Cat, not installed and thusly not clogged. The MAF sensor seems to be working fine, however I did clean it with brake cleaner once a while back if that could have any ill effect. The only other thing i'm thinking could be the issue is the EGR delete I did, it's making an engine light, I removed the cooler and put block off plates for that. I have yet to get a malone tune since they are so far away from me. Also the turbo actuator has what seems to me to be a lot of play, as in if i put my vacuum pump on and set the vanes to halfway open/closed and wiggle the vanes there is so much space from wear that I can clack them back and forth even without the actuator moving. Do any of these issues seem like they would effect mpg beyond just 1-3mpg? Also I adjusted my turbo actuator to touch stop at 18 lbs of mercury, I boost at about 4psi cruising at 80mph and rarely if ever go above 18 psi even if I drive it hard. It will hit 7-8 psi of boost when I am going 80 with cruise on and go over an overpass hill on otherwise flat roads in FL.
 
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turbovan+tdi

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Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Did yuo adjust the EGR adaptation, if so,put it back to stock. What's the IQ set at? How old are the injectors? What's the MAF reading vs specified?
 
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