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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old April 21st, 2018, 06:40   #16
Henrick
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Make wallet lighter? It's only 30 Euros for a 1 quart jug, worth trying. You spend way more on hamburgers/cheeseburgers and Red Bull.
Anyway, I got the bottle of that stuff, it's on my table right behind me.

Besides, the same "Project Farm" has tested some Liqui Moly additive and proved it to be snake oil. LM does invest a lot of in marketing on this side of the pond.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 11:31   #17
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I stumbled across the project farm videos a while back. A few are moderately entertaining, but most are just silly. I don't need a video to know if a gas engine will run on kerosene, or how well a wooden cylinder head will work. He seems to be a big fan of As-seen-on-TV oil products. Amateur city.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 12:07   #18
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
I stumbled across the project farm videos a while back. A few are moderately entertaining, but most are just silly. I don't need a video to know if a gas engine will run on kerosene, or how well a wooden cylinder head will work. He seems to be a big fan of As-seen-on-TV oil products. Amateur city.
Project Farm is just another Youtube presenter trying to make a buck by doing weird stuff that you and I would never do.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 17:55   #19
Ol'Rattler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrick View Post
Make wallet lighter? It's only 30 Euros for a 1 quart jug, worth trying. You spend way more on hamburgers/cheeseburgers and Red Bull.
Anyway, I got the bottle of that stuff, it's on my table right behind me.

Besides, the same "Project Farm" has tested some Liqui Moly additive and proved it to be snake oil. LM does invest a lot of in marketing on this side of the pond.
So that justifies flushing your money down the toilet? "Try it" on your breakfast cereal in the morning. It certainly would "do something".
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Old April 21st, 2018, 20:21   #20
James & Son
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Henrick, I have never seen you do a uoa, so how are you going to see results. You will not know the long term affects on your engine. Will it reduce your OCI for instance. What will be the by products as the compound is consumed or broken down.

For instance I don't like Molydtc in a diesel oil because as the disulfide is consumed it breaks down to MOS3 which is abrasive by product of consumption.

I don't think you will use it for that very reason. It might be useful in a engine with a mildly damaged cam though as it might help in that case since it seems to like steel surfaces.
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Old April 22nd, 2018, 01:14   #21
Henrick
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Never told I am going to try it it my engine and monitor something via UOA.. Since this stuff is claimed to be really multipurpose, it can be use anywhere from lubricating hinges or bicycle chains to nearly industrial equipment.

Besides, I accumulate miles very slowly. It would take years to estabilsh a wear trends if I used something in my car/engine.

Last edited by Henrick; April 22nd, 2018 at 02:09.
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Old April 22nd, 2018, 08:28   #22
tikal
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Default Boron based nano oil additives

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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
At least Archoil identifies the active components in their additives. I believe Boron(or a compound containing boron) is the principal anti-wear additive in most of their products. I imagine LiquiMoly also gives some info on the ceratec product formulation. Then again slick 50 identified Teflon in their product- and it was/is snake oil crap.
I believe the current research/science behind the benefits of using hexagonal boron nitride (hBN) (Archoil 9100, LM Ceratec) and tungsten disulfide (WS2) (Archoil 9200) are better established than using Teflon back a few decades ago.

For those interested in the subject here is one research paper from the Argonne National Labs that I would consider worth while to read at a minimum the 'Executive Summary':

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1097780

"In this project, most of the boron-based materials with known and potential
anti-friction and -wear properties have been manufactured as colloidal additives and tested for their
effectiveness in controlling friction and wear. Unlike other anti-friction and -wear additives, which
consist of zinc, molybdenum, sulfur, phosphorus, and even chlorine, lubricious boron
compounds considered in this project are made of boron, oxygen, nitrogen, and hydrogen,
which are more environmentally benign. Among others, boric acid is a natural mineral (known
in mineralogy as “sassolite”). Based on our earlier exploratory research, it was found to offer the
best overall prospect in terms of performance improvements, environmental friendliness, and
ease of manufacturing and, hence, cost effectiveness. Hexagonal boron nitride and borax also
offered good prospects for improving the tribological properties of lubricated sliding surfaces.
Boron oxide particles were found to be rather hard and somewhat abrasive and, hence, were
not considered beyond the initial screening studies. In our bench-top tribological evaluation, we
also demonstrated that those additives which worked well with engine oils could work equally
well with very common gear oils. When added at appropriate concentrations, such gear oils
were found to provide significant resistance to micropitting and scuffing failures in bench-top
tribological test systems. Their traction coefficients were also reduced substantially and their
scuffing limits were improved considerably. Such impressive tribological behavior of boron based
additives may have been due to their high chemical affinities to interact with sliding
contact surfaces and to form slick and protective boundary films. Indeed, our surface studies
have confirmed that most of the boron-based nanoparticulate additives prepared in our project
possess a strong tendency to form a boron-rich boundary film on sliding contact surfaces. It is
believed that the formation of such slick and highly durable boundary films is perhaps one of the
fundamental reasons for their superior anti-friction, -wear, and -scuffing performance.
Boron-based additives developed under this project have shown potential to reduce or replace
the uses of environmentally unsafe sulfur- and phosphorus-bearing anti-wear and –friction
additives, such as zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) and molybdenum dialkyl dithiocarbamate
(MoDTC), in current lubricating oils. Because ZDDP and MoDTC were suspected of adversely
impacting the performance of after-treatment catalysts in current engines, the Environmental
Protection Agency (EPA) and other regulatory agencies are demanding that the concentrations
of these catalysts in current oils be curtailed drastically. The boron-based nano-additives
developed in this project may help reduce the use of ZDDP and MoDTC additives and, hence,
help ease the poisoning effects on after-treatment catalysts. When used as lubricity additives,
these boron additives can chemically interact with sliding or contacting surfaces and form a
protective and slick boundary film, which can, in turn, help reduce friction and wear and increase
resistance to scuffing. In the cases of traditional anti-friction and -wear additives mentioned,
such protective boundary films result from phosphorus, sulfur, and other elements in the
additive package, and again they have been under increased scrutiny in recent years, mainly
because of their adverse effects on after-treatment devices.
"
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Old April 22nd, 2018, 20:47   #23
James & Son
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Problem with all nano additives is they are only effective as boundary lubricants. They do not reduce cam wear which is elasto hydro dynamic oil film and can actually block oilflow entering the cam interface.

The problem is nano may be fine on a sub micro level but in actual use it accumulates into clumps that become micro blocking the entrainment of oil. Now it might be fine for rings but is not good for a BRM cam. Boron is better used as a anti-oxidant rather than an anti-wear at low concentrations.

The reason being that solid lubricants to work as anti-wear work best including ZDDP at over 1000 parts per million. Lubrimoly has reduced the moly concentration to reduce probably destroying catalytic convertors. It is high temp. and inert so it probably coats the converter, common sense say's not to do that.

Boron as an anti-wear needs higher concentrations. All metals have an effect on the emission systems as they create ash. I like Renewable Lubricant as it is CJ4 and does not rely on molydtc or boron to be effective

Edit: ceratec is an attempt to combine molydisulfide and hexagonal boron at reduced concentrations. They may still work on a mildly damaged engine but there is no need to use them otherwise.

Last edited by James & Son; April 22nd, 2018 at 20:53.
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Old April 23rd, 2018, 04:00   #24
Henrick
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How much oil you need to burn for metallic ash to become a problem?
Soot also ends up in ash and in way bigger amounts, I think. Doesn't it?
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