Does this look like a 7,000 mile timing belt?

Dodoma

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
TDI
2002 Jetta White
Any car with 103k miles will have some issues such as door dings, little wear on the seat due to farting. Based on the filth, one can deduce that the previous owner was indeed dirty and lazy and lacked basic hygine. He may be using the fuel saving to cover the cost of having dogs. To remove hairs from the seat, use tooth brush and vacumme. Use soap water to clean the fabric and again brushing with the tooth brush and after that use paper napkin to absorb water. You may also use hair dryer to dry the fabric. If you don't want to go over this process, you as well may buy seat covers from the dealer to replace the entire fabric (the fabric is considered as seat cover).
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Dodoma said:
.....the previous owner was indeed dirty and lazy and lacked basic hygine. He may be using the fuel saving to cover the cost of having dogs.
PO was a young woman. I can't figure out how she managed to stain the front seats so badly, or what the stains are. Maybe I don't want to know.

The rear interior of the car is now done. The rear seat cushions look new after soaking the covers in Oxy-Clean. Carpet and headliner are clean and free of dog hair.

I had been thinking about buying a VW TDI since driving a rental in the UK in 2006 and being amazed at the torque.

After driving by this car on a gas station lot for several weeks, I stopped to take a look at it. First impression was poor - hood dents, dirty interior, cloudy headlights, nasty looking shift boot. But...the car did not appear to have any mechanical problems and had pretty good service records, including regular dealer (I know) oil changes with the correct oil.

I figured the hood was a good candidate for paintless dent removal (PDR - will post pics when done) and the interior would clean up OK. The owner was not advertising the car anywhere and the gas station had the wrong year on the windshield (2002 instead of 2003) along with an asking price. I bought the car for what I thought was a good price, though slightly more than I really wanted to pay.

Anyway, I have driven the car for two weeks now and so far, so good. A pleasant surprise is the Monsoon stereo, which sounds really good. Also, a pleasant surprise is that the gearbox shifts perfectly after the gear oil change. I had been thinking I would have to open the gearbox to fix the 2nd gear grind.

No serious negative surprises so far. I was a little concerned by the mouse nest under the cabin air filter, but the car has no electrical problems, so fingers crossed they had not started on the wiring. Also, two engine cover posts cross-threaded and stripped and two battery tray bolts cross-threaded and stripped. Anyone have the part number for the battery tray bolts?

My plan for the car after I have finished the basic mechanical work (TB redo, intake manifold and intercooler cleaning) is all the standard goodies - stage 2 tune, Koni FSDs, Dieselgeek clutch kit, maybe a Quaife differential. I have already bought new wheels - Exors with Continental tires - from Keffer VW. This is a screaming deal by the way. I can't figure out what the catch is - 17" factory rims and tires for the cost of the tires alone - seems to good to be true.

The only thing I am a little hazy on right now is the turbo. It seems to be operating normally, but how do I check? And is there any maintenance (decarbon?, seal replacement?) that I should be planning to do on it?
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Doug Huffman said:
It's a gamble with no up-side.
True. I have a Dieselgeek TB kit and tools on order now. Will evaluate each part in the TB system and if they are good quality, new parts will re-use them. But with the Dieselgeek kit on hand, I know I will have everything I need. Unused parts from the TB kit will go on the shelf for the next TB change.

I've driven the car 600 miles though, so guess I am somewhat of a gambler.
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
fase2000TDI said:
Often parts with 80, 100K miles on them will look brand new in regards to rollers on the TB system.

But it's your car. Do what you want
I guess I didn't really explain my intentions clearly. I won't be reinstalling parts that just look new - only parts that I am certain were replaced 7,000 miles ago and that are good quality. There's another new member on TDIClub - Jerry Freeman - who recently did a similar TB redo. He was able to determine which parts had been replaced by date codes on some of the parts. In his case, he only bought the parts that had likely/certainly not been replaced.

Wrench marks (or lack of) on fasteners can also be helpful. I can already see that the top small roller is original because the bolt head has no marks.

If there's any doubt, I'll be replacing the part. But it makes no sense to discard a virtually new Gates or Continental TB or Litens tensioner.
 

Jerry Freeman

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
I don't know if it means anything or not, but I interpret the black specks on the top idler roller to mean it isn't new. Perhaps it can accumulate that much buildup in 7,000 miles, but I would be suspicious. In any case, it's a moot point since there's no date code on the small rollers, so you'll be replacing it anyway.

Best wishes,
Jerry
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
Jerry,

in my experience I have seen those top small rollers looking like Dalmations from all of the spots on them not more than 5 minutes after starting the car after I replace the entire TB system.. do not use those specs as a visual basis for old or new.
 

Jerry Freeman

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Thanks for the clarification.

I've also been told, if the small idler rollers spin loosely on their bearings, they're probably old. A new roller will be a little firmer feeling. I did notice that was the case when I redid my timing belt.

Best wishes,
Jerry
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
The owner was not advertising the car anywhere and ....
That is the best way to buy a TDI IMO. When we bought the 04, the seller did not advertise it at all. Just stuck a "for sale" sign in the windshield and that was it. It did not sell very well and we were able to get a wicked awesome deal on it.

Anybody on the 'net wants too much money for these cars as they usually know what they are worth and how wanted they are.
 

VWBeamer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Location
GA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
Looks like my old room mates GF car. She was HAWT, but she was also a runner and she would go running then get back in her car. her car seats looked like that and her car smelled like an old gym locker...but she had nice legs..
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Headlight Restoration

Had a go at restoring the headlights using a 3M Headlight Restoration Kit bought at Walmart. I wasn't expecting much, but this kit worked pretty well. In about 45 minutes, the headlights went from looking like this:



to this:




Not perfect, but at least 90%. My impression is that you could achieve a near-perfect result with this kit if you really worked at it.


Also replaced the driver door pull. The VW soft touch coating - i.e rubberized paint - is a not-so-great idea and the old driver door pull looked terrible - peeling, dirty. Also, light beige as an interior color? Another brilliant idea - not.



The part number for this part is 3B1-867-171-E-R48, where R48 is the color code, I believe.
 

toadz1

banned
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Location
CA
TDI
A4
Good find, and even better job on the clean up. That belt and roller look fresh to me. Can you still see the ink on the back of the timinb belt if if you spin the crank a bit clockwise?


How much for the old door pull? Mine is cracked. Beige or tan 2002 jetta interior on Galactic blue. PM me if it's available. Thanks.
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
TB Redo Started

Almost three weeks and about 1,100 miles since my first post on this thread. This afternoon I started the TB redo.

First impression - it's a pleasure to work on this car. Seven years old but all in Texas and California and NO RUST.

Working with 1/4" drive tools is amusing - all my wrenching in the last ten years has been on full size vehicles with 1/2" and 3/4" drive tools, so I feel like I'm working on a toy car with toy tools.

Working in this engine compartment, your magnetic pickup is your best friend. I've used it on the vacuum pump fasteners and valve cover screws - magnet on the washer as the screws come out - no dropped fasteners.

Here's the back side of the IP - minimal seep at the lower gasket - looks OK to me, but I don't really know.



Camshaft looks OK - probably the first time it's seen daylight in 104,000 miles.



Cam lobes look OK - no particular wear at the lobe tips - parallel wear lines on all the lobes - this pair have probably the most obvious wear marks.



Now this I don't understand. What are these circular marks on the top of the lifter? This is the #1 lifter - closest to the cam sprocket. My car has noticeable lifter noise on start-up - goes away after two or three seconds - but only when starting after sitting for a while. Are these circular marks hairline fractures that are allowing the lifter to leak down overnight, for example? Or are they normal, unremarkable?


Will post further updates as I get to the TB.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
You'll want to look at the lobe tips for pitting. That's what causes the circular marks. What kind of oil has this engine been on?
 

Strider199

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Location
Canada
TDI
1999 Golf TDI New Body Style
Re:Headlight Restoration

Mine looked alot like yours before I used the cheap 3m restore kit. Manual power, hehehe. I spent about an hour a piece sanding in opposite directions and they came out like new. A beer a side using lots of water (on the lens that is). It's been over a year and they still clean up good with a normal wash.

Nice pic's in this thread. :)
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
runonbeer said:
You'll want to look at the lobe tips for pitting. That's what causes the circular marks. What kind of oil has this engine been on?
The service history I have for the car is: first oil change (by dealer) at 5,000 miles; I have no service records (first owner) between 5,000 and 50,000 miles; then oil changes by dealer every 10,000 miles from 50,000 to 100,000 miles (second owner) with either VW ZVW-352-540-S (Castrol Syntec 5W-40?) or with no part number specified.

Here's the lobe tip on the #1 cam lobe. (The white stuff is fibers from a rag I had over the camshaft). I don't see any pitting.


The only problem I've run into so far is the harmonic balancer bolts, which were slightly rounded out. Two of them came out, two of them didn't. I've had a set of Irwin Bolt-Grips in my tool-chest for a while that I've never used. Had the two stripped harmonic balancer bolts out in seconds - very effective. Oh and kudos to Dieselgeek for including new harmonic balancer bolts in their TB kit - I'll be using them.

The PO's (8,000 mile old) mark and pray TB job is looking a little shaky so far. On the plus side, the serpentine belt is a Contitech - maybe the TB will be too - haven't got that far. Also on the plus side, the water pump had been changed. I can see it's a HEPU, made in Germany. Is that a good one? I don't know.

On the negative side - big negative - when I brought the camshaft to TDC and locked it with the camshaft holding tool, the TDC mark on the flywheel was about 1 tooth away from the TDC marker on the bellhousing. So....the mark and pray method had the timing of the camshaft relative to the crankshaft off by one ring gear tooth - about 2 degrees, I'd guess. Not the end of the world, but not perfect either. So that's what mark and pray gets you. Valve train timing that's close but not perfect.

More tomorrow.
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Timing Belt Components

OK, so here's my 7,000 mile (now 8,000 mile) old TB system. Which components to reinstall? Which replace?

Serpentine belt - Contitech, made in Romania - looks newish.

Water pump - HEPU - obviously new - not leaking - bearing tight.

Timing belt - faint markings, but Contitech visible. I'd guess also made in Romania - texture of the back of the belt looks just like the serpentine belt.


Large idler roller - no date marking - manufactured by GMB. Weird corrosion on one side of roller only, as if something corrosive has splattered on it from the top (TB dust? mouse pee?)




Small top roller - also marked GMB - seems quite tight, probably new but leaking grease.


Small bottom roller - marked INA - also seems tight but also leaking grease.


And finally, the TB tensioner. It's a Litens, installed correctly, undamaged, and with a date code of 08 08.
 
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Jerry Freeman

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
I would keep the serpentine belt, timing belt, tensioner and water pump and replace everything else.

Best wishes,
Jerry
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Jerry Freeman said:
I would keep the serpentine belt, timing belt, tensioner and water pump and replace everything else.

Best wishes,
Jerry
That's more or less what I decided to do. On the fence on the water pump, but decided the HEPU was OK. Kept it. Reinstalled the Litens tensioner and replaced everything else, including a new Gates timing belt.

I've read about TB failures where the cam sprocket slips on the camshaft and wondered if the problem might be something to do with the cam sprocket bolt being torqued with the cam sprocket slightly off axis on the camshaft taper. This seems possible because the TB does pull the cam sprocket down as the the tensioner is being tensioned. So, after torquing the cam sprocket bolt to 33 ft.lb., I took a deadblow hammer and tapped the cam sprocket all the way round the circumference. Then torqued the cam sprocket bolt to 33 ft.lb. again and whaddya know - the bolt turned a little more at the same torque. Then finished by torquing to 42 ft.lb.
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Finished The TB Redo

Finished my TB redo yesterday. Installed the complete Dieselgeek kit with the exception of the water pump (8,000 mile HEPU pump left in place), the tensioner (8,000 mile Litens tensioner reinstalled) and the serpentine belt. I also used the replacement harmonic balancer bolts supplied by Dieselgeek as two of the original bolt heads stripped.

Judging by the polish marks on the cam sprocket and IP sprocket, my new Gates belt appears to be in a slightly different position than the old belt. I don’t understand that. The tensioner pulley is the only one in the timing belt path that has sides, so it’s the tensioner pulley that controls the side-to-side location of the timing belt. A mystery. Hopefully a harmless one.


Reinstalling the serpentine belt, found my alternator pulley frozen solid – no clutching action at all. So ordered a new pulley and the Metalnerd tools.

The slight intermittent stumble at idle seems to have gone. The camshaft timing had been off by about 2 degrees, so correcting that might have helped.

Finally, while doing the TB I found a fuel leak in an odd location. Will start a new thread on that.
 

scurvy

Good Ol' Boy
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Chicago IL USA
TDI
2006 Golf
Any car with 103k miles will have some issues such as door dings, little wear on the seat due to farting.
Farting wears out the seats? Do tell. :D

Maybe you have a different technique for expelling flatus than I do, but my farts don't wear the seats at all (but they do imbue the interior with that new car smell).

I can't figure out how she managed to stain the front seats so badly, or what the stains are.
VW's foolish choice of the beige interior in mk4s stains like there's no tomorrow, even if you just get some water on the upholstery. My wife's NB sports a set of Coverking seat covers because of that fact. We bought it used and the uneven fabric color actually got worse as we used the extraction cleaner to take out the dirt and cigarette stench.
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
VW's foolish choice of the beige interior in mk4s stains like there's no tomorrow, even if you just get some water on the upholstery. My wife's NB sports a set of Coverking seat covers because of that fact. We bought it used and the uneven fabric color actually got worse as we used the extraction cleaner to take out the dirt and cigarette stench.
Your avatar - Vyvyan - takes me back. The good old days - in hindsight!

Here's Vyvyan (Adrian Edmondson) now - image courtesy of tomtom music, UK:
 
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