Uphill Start Stall (6M '10 Golf)

Rule10b5 · May 21, 2010

Has anyone experienced anything odd with a 6M Golf when starting from a stop and going uphill?

On four or five different occasions, I've stalled out my Golf. Each time it's happened I've been starting from a stop on a hill and in first gear.

It seems (to me), that to avoid the problem I need to depress the accelerator quite a bit more than on other cars, slip the clutch, and to hold the RPMs higher while getting rolling. Is this endemic to the platform? Or am I doing something wrong that's VW or Diesel specific?

For the past 20 years my daily driver and/or track vehicle (with one 6 month period that is the exception) has been a manual car (or motorcycle), so I know it's not a "You just don't know how to drive a manual issue." I'm completely baffled; until I got the Golf I hadn't unintentionally stalled a vehicle in years...

eb2143 · May 21, 2010

I don't own one, I should say, but most CBEA 6M owners have reported some difficulty at first. One cause is that the ECU shuts down the engine if the rpms drop below a specified value that is very close to idle, if not idle rpm (someone else will know exactly). So the engine isn't actually stalling, it's shutting itself off.

It could be that in combination with the electronic "mapping" for the accelerator that makes hill starts feel so weird.

sgoldste01 · May 21, 2010

I believe the RPM value in question is 800 RPM. And I do rev the engine up extra when starting on a hill, to make sure I don't have any problems.

herbert68 · May 21, 2010

I'm not sure what you mean by "stalling", but I too have a significant lag in acceleration when going uphill.

One particular situation almost got me into trouble the other day: turning left from a busy flat road to go uphill I almost got hit by an oncoming car because my Jetta took a bit longer than expected to get up to speed ...

PlaneJob · May 21, 2010

herbert68 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "stalling", but I too have a significant lag in acceleration when going uphill.

I think he means "the internal components of the engine stopped rotating". That's a fairly common usage of the word when describing events with a manual transmission car. Context clues support my theory.

But, what you are experiencing could also be described as stalling, but you will have more fruitful search results if you check out 'hesitation'.

Jasper J · May 21, 2010

PlaneJob said:
I think he means "the internal components of the engine stopped rotating".

Also known as "Killing It".
Something I too haven't intentionally done in years of driving manual vehicles.

Now I get paranoid when having to stop on a hill with traffic behind me. Few people seem to leave any space behind the car in front of them anymore...

sflier · May 21, 2010

Yes, I notice it too. I've only owned manual transmission vehicles for past 30+ years of driving ... but this is my first diesel. I do have to give it some extra revs (more so than the usual gasser) starting up hills. Doesn't seem to pull hard enough off the line in the lower revs.

nj1266 · May 21, 2010

To the OP.

This is very well known. These ars tend to stall a lot. It took me some time to get used to mine and I have driven nothing but manual cars my entire adult life.

I have not stalled mine going uphill from a dead stop, but I have stalled it under other conditions.

I have probably stalled the car about 8 times since I owned it. The first time I stalled it was during the test drive...LOL

chowster1 · May 21, 2010

Same here. I've a 1990 Coupe Quattro and I hardly stall the vehicle on hills and the clutch engagement point is very similiar.

sabersix · May 21, 2010

Same problem with my 2006. Thought my wife was going to get killed in the middle of an intersection, so sold it. Only buy DSG now...

ksing44 · May 21, 2010

I agree that it is a safety issue, considering the unforgiving nature of today's roadways. Pulling half way out into an intersection and stalling with oncoming traffic could definitely get one of us killed. It is too bad.

I consider myself a very experienced driver with only one automatic transmission in 40 years of driving. The TDI is way too easy to stall. I now watch the tachometer like a hawk when I pull out. If you forget for a minute about the issue and you have the stereo playing, it is way too easy to stall the car. I would say that the stalling is the biggest issue so far with the car.

I thought I might teach my son to drive a stick, but I don't think I will even give it a try in this car. I would be afraid he would get killed. I will continue to risk it myself, but it is definitely an issue.

sk8rlee · May 21, 2010

I only have a few hundred miles on mine but I've noticed the lack of "take-off" power compared to the other manuals I've owned. I've never owned a turbo car before though so I was just assuming it had something to do with the fact that the turbo isn't yet spooled up so you're nowhere near the powerband. I don't have hills where I live but I have stalled it a few times since I've had it. What concerns me more than the actual stalling of the engine is the fact that you have to first turn the key to the "off" position to restart it instead of just going straight to the "start" position. THAT doesn't make any sense to me.

F1 tuning · May 21, 2010

Rule10b5 said:
Has anyone experienced anything odd with a 6M Golf when starting from a stop and going uphill?

On four or five different occasions, I've stalled out my Golf. Each time it's happened I've been starting from a stop on a hill and in first gear.

It seems (to me), that to avoid the problem I need to depress the accelerator quite a bit more than on other cars, slip the clutch, and to hold the RPMs higher while getting rolling. Is this endemic to the platform? Or am I doing something wrong that's VW or Diesel specific?

For the past 20 years my daily driver and/or track vehicle (with one 6 month period that is the exception) has been a manual car (or motorcycle), so I know it's not a "You just don't know how to drive a manual issue." I'm completely baffled; until I got the Golf I hadn't unintentionally stalled a vehicle in years...

CRJSW vbmenu_register("postmenu_2987509", true);
Newbie

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Abingdon, VA

F1 Tuning
Hey Guys! I have got 550 miles on my st2 F1 tune and Im loving it ! No more stalls , I can basically gear up now instead of having to ride a gear through town . Try 20mph through town in 3rd

If anyone in the Tri-Cities TN ,Southwest VA area would like to take a ride in it just let me know .

Ill keep you all up to date on the DPF also .

Michael Hughes

BTW I went that 550 miles on 13.7 gallons for around 40mpg ,up from 35mpg .
Last edited by CRJSW : 05-18-10 at 06:36 PM.

ohub · May 21, 2010

I've noticed this too. Like one of the other posters, I stalled a 6M on a test drive - and my list of manual cars is long (68 Beetle, 73 Super Beetle, 84 Escort, 86 Nissan, 87 Ranger, 90 Civic, '06 GTO.) I've never stalled any of them as much as I have the TDI. I haven't stalled going up hill but did manage to stall in leaving a parking garage at my work and almost get rear ended.

tomo366 · May 21, 2010

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=249044&highlight=car+stalls

F1 tuning · May 21, 2010

ohub said:
I've noticed this too. Like one of the other posters, I stalled a 6M on a test drive - and my list of manual cars is long (68 Beetle, 73 Super Beetle, 84 Escort, 86 Nissan, 87 Ranger, 90 Civic, '06 GTO.) I've never stalled any of them as much as I have the TDI. I haven't stalled going up hill but did manage to stall in leaving a parking garage at my work and almost get rear ended.

I cannot find the post, but was a year ago wen a client here post about the issue we were able to improve with the tuning, but many after experience the identical improvement.
Best
Tonino Petrolo

UberVW_TDI · May 21, 2010

I've noticed this car diffenitely takes more feathering of the clutch to get going when starting from a stop (especially on an incline). I almost got hit by a dump truck, which was behind me, when I killed it just after starting to take off from a red light.
The engine computer does shut the engine down if the rpm drops below 800rpm.
I haven't killed it for awhile now....but it does take some getting used to.

fastalan · May 21, 2010

Use your hand brake and blip the throttle

Guys, you can try this..

Pull your hand brake, when you are ready to accelerate, very quickly blip the trottle a few times (like 3 times in one second) then release the hand brake/release clutch/press the throttle at the same time.

Mike_M · May 22, 2010

Rule10b5 said:
Has anyone experienced anything odd with a 6M Golf when starting from a stop and going uphill?

It's not just uphill, and you're not alone. There are several threads on the subject. At least one of them gets into details about an ECU flash, and the closest thing to a consensus seems to be that it's a software glitch related to emissions controls, specifically the EGR systems.

Rule10b5 · May 22, 2010

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I'm glad to know that it's not entirely my fault.

I'll reflash after the warranty is toast. In the interim I'll just give it a little more accelerator and let the clutch slip a bit.

That aside, I have to say that one of the stalls led to a great exchange with my wife.

*Stall*

Me: What the *expletive*
Wife: Do you just....?
Me: Yeah.
Wife: Wow. That's never happened to you before, has it?
Me: Well, not since I first started, and never with you.
Wife: *hysterically laughing*
Me: In the car. Never happened with you in the car.
Wife: Yeah, I'm sure that's what you meant, killer. You can trust me to keep our little secret.

fredzy · May 26, 2010

I'm glad I found this thread, I was going nuts. I thought this thing was a little touchy at first (2010 Sportwagen TDI) but lately hills have been killing me.

I've been driving manual trans for a decade and have dealt with all types.. but this is my first diesel, and VW. I had a hunch something funny was going on.. and the under 800 RPM engine shut-off confirms it. I guess I got too used to letting my revs slip down on hills.

I cringe when I'm turining 1500+ RPM just slipping clutch but on steeper hills that's what I gotta do, I suppose. Seems like when you're under 1500 it's too easy to bog the engine down and hit the kill switch. I'm even laying down a little rubber sometimes, hah.

I was even turning off the stability control on hills because I thought it was the ECU hitting the brakes once the wheels spun or something and shutting me down.

Tweak3D · May 26, 2010

I was having the same issue, shut off traction control, it kills power on hills even if it thinks the tires are slipping. I shut it off and bam, haven't stalled even on the steepest of hills in downtown seattle.

sportriderseattle · May 27, 2010

I totally agree on every aspect of your post. this is a major safety concern for me. though I understand VW's desire to have the ignition safety so one does not attempt to crank an engine when it is already running, there really needs to be a sensor that detects the engine is not running so one does not have to TURN OFF then TURN ON the ignition. This damn delay could certainly increases your chances of being rear ended. US also needs to add the hill grabber to this car.

This is a HUGE problem for this car.

ksing44 said:
I agree that it is a safety issue, considering the unforgiving nature of today's roadways. Pulling half way out into an intersection and stalling with oncoming traffic could definitely get one of us killed. It is too bad.

I consider myself a very experienced driver with only one automatic transmission in 40 years of driving. The TDI is way too easy to stall. I now watch the tachometer like a hawk when I pull out. If you forget for a minute about the issue and you have the stereo playing, it is way too easy to stall the car. I would say that the stalling is the biggest issue so far with the car.

dpg · May 27, 2010

I had trouble at first with getting used to it, but you learn and adapt. thats life in general. just give it more pedal, i dont understand what the issue is. I've even stalled it backing it out of a parking spot, lol. but i've learned the quirks and have adapted to them. i think the only time i havent stalled the car when i was getting used to it, was in a turn and uphill.

To add, i can see how this can be a safety concern if its the first time its happened in an intersection while turning. yes it only takes once. Im not trying to belittle anyone over their safety concern, but if you're having this much trouble adapting to a manual, then maybe manual wasn't the choice for you

jcaseymoore · May 27, 2010

Unintended Stalling.

Rule10b5 said:
Has anyone experienced anything odd with a 6M Golf when starting from a stop and going uphill?
On four or five different occasions, I've stalled out my Golf. Each time it's happened I've been starting from a stop on a hill and in first gear.
It seems (to me), that to avoid the problem I need to depress the accelerator quite a bit more than on other cars, slip the clutch, and to hold the RPMs higher while getting rolling. Is this endemic to the platform? Or am I doing something wrong that's VW or Diesel specific?
For the past 20 years my daily driver and/or track vehicle (with one 6 month period that is the exception) has been a manual car (or motorcycle), so I know it's not a "You just don't know how to drive a manual issue." I'm completely baffled; until I got the Golf I hadn't unintentionally stalled a vehicle in years...

I have have the same problem and am a long-time stick shift driver. I stall my Golf TDI both going up hill and sometimes when starting from a parking lot going through the gutter to the street.
I believe this is a safety hazard and if it could be fixed by reprograming the ECU, VW should do that. So, we are like the Prius but stopping unintendedly instead of accelerating unintendedly!

numl0ck · May 27, 2010

dpg said:
I had trouble at first with getting used to it, but you learn and adapt. thats life in general. just give it more pedal, i dont understand what the issue is. I've even stalled it backing it out of a parking spot, lol. but i've learned the quirks and have adapted to them. i think the only time i havent stalled the car when i was getting used to it, was in a turn and uphill.

To add, i can see how this can be a safety concern if its the first time its happened in an intersection while turning. yes it only takes once. Im not trying to belittle anyone over their safety concern, but if you're having this much trouble adapting to a manual, then maybe manual wasn't the choice for you

Finally! Someone with some common sense.

I don't see how this is a safety issue at all. The driver should learn to adapt to the car, not the other way around. My Golf is a my daily driver, and when I hop into my Fiancée’s car ('01 Jetta) the clutch catches waaaaayy late compared to the Golf. Maybe that should be considered a safety issue because by the time the clutch is catching the RPMs are at 3k and I risk rear ending the person in front of me.

Maybe I have been lucky because all of my manual vehicles ('89 Toyota 4x4, '01 Saturn SL2, '01 PT Cruiser) drove like the Golf so the adjustment wasn't that big of a deal for me.

Having said that, there are differences between driving a gasser and the Golf. For one, I used to roll through stop signs in second gear, letting the RPMs drop under 1K and I could just feather the clutch and take off again no problems. Not really recommended in the Golf. I posted that I stalled the car on a test drive because I tried to do that while pulling out into traffic. But is that a safety issue? No. Why? Because I was trying to drive this car like all my other cars. Every car requires some adjustment in driving style.

If you're on a hill and you stall then you didn't push the go peddle down far enough.

dpg · May 27, 2010

numl0ck said:
Having said that, there are differences between driving a gasser and the Golf. For one, I used to roll through stop signs in second gear, letting the RPMs drop under 1K and I could just feather the clutch and take off again no problems. Not really recommended in the Golf. I posted that I stalled the car on a test drive because I tried to do that while pulling out into traffic. But is that a safety issue? No. Why? Because I was trying to drive this car like all my other cars. Every car requires some adjustment in driving style.

If you're on a hill and you stall then you didn't push the go peddle down far enough.

oh gosh, hey i've learned that too

AVM62 · May 27, 2010

The engine computer does shut the engine down if the rpm drops below 800rpm.

I don't think it as simple as just RPM, engine load plays a part. I've had my rpm's down to 600 or so aand it did not stall, I was not giving it a lot of throttle at the time, and was able to push in the clutch fast enough that it did not stall.

Click to expand...

dweisel · May 27, 2010

AVM62 said:
The engine computer does shut the engine down if the rpm drops below 800rpm.

I don't think it as simple as just RPM, engine load plays a part. I've had my rpm's down to 600 or so aand it did not stall, I was not giving it a lot of throttle at the time, and was able to push in the clutch fast enough that it did not stall.

Click to expand...

If your cars rpms will pull down to 600 then you have the only one that has been reported to go below 800 rpms and keep running.

Dweisel

Click to expand...

nj1266 · May 27, 2010

I concur with dpg and numlock. You need to adapt your driving to the car and not the other way around. You cannot drive the TDI like a gasser manual; you will stall it.

I have also stalled the car by rolling through stop signs in 2nd gear. 2nd gear is not short enough to allow you to do that. In my S2000, with ultra short gearing, I can easily do this, but not in the TDI.

If you are too slow for 2nd gear you will stall in the TDI. At crawling speed you need to be in 1st gear in this car OR if you are in 2nd gear, press the clutch halfway in until you start rolling faster and then lift your foot off the clutch.

This is not a safety issue, it is a "learn how-to-drive this car" issue. I have final learned it and I have not stalled for a while. I still catch myself too abruptly lifting my foot off the clutch pedal, but I do catch it w/o stalling.

Uphill Start Stall (6M '10 Golf)

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