Not Starting, New Fuel Pump, New Relays

I have a 2003 VW Beetle TDI 1.9L and it was running perfectly for about a week, then we went to go drive it and it started it, rolled out of the driveway, then puttered out and died. We pushed it back into the driveway and it sense hasn't started. It turns over but doesn't fire up. Battery is fully charged. Fuses are all good. Replaced relay 109. Didn't fix it. Replaced fuel pump. Didn't fix it. Someone suggested a fuel relay and we noticed it didn't have one where it was supposed to be. Bought one and put it in (not sure if it's supposed to have one because it wasn't there to begin with). Still didn't fix it. When you turn the key to the on position (not start), we never hear the fuel pump kick on, but we do hear a click noise under the hood. What could it be? I don't know anything about diesels or VWs, I'm lost.

2003 would be an ALH, the fuel pump is driven off the timing belt, it's not electric. It only "runs" when the engine (and thus the timing belt) is spinning.

Can you make it reproduce the click noise? If so, try to narrow down where under the hood it might be coming from, that will help with diagnosis.

Also, if that relay you added wasn't in there when the car was last running OK, pull it back out for now.

It sounds like its this thing that makes a click noise when you turn the key to on (not start). I believe this is the injection pump.

Who replaced that IP (Injection Pump)?

When the key is turned on there's a couple of things that happen. There's a very faint whine sound (your ears have to tuned to it to catch it- or if you're standing right there at the IP when the key is switched on you should be able to hear it), it's the QA (Quantity Adjuster) doing a "sweep" and usually isn't an issue (with it not doing this sweep). Second, and most important thing is that the fuel cut-off solenoid "clicks," this is the sound that anyone should be able to hear (even sitting inside the car); it's a very definite and positive click sound. If this isn't happening then you're not getting fuel. Anyway...

Here's where you should start troubleshooting:

Car won't start troubleshooting

I bought a vacuum pump and pumped all the air out of the fuel filter then moved onto the IP. I got a little bit of air and fuel to come out of the IP but not very much, then it couldn't suck anymore fuel out. The vacuum is strong but it acts like its restricted. What should I check?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398

Whitedogs excellent no start thread.

You have no fuel pump, you have an IP which it sounds like you’ve discovered. If you’re getting air out of the fuel filter or ip you’ve got an air leak somewhere. Track it down.

Tdijarhead said:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398

Whitedogs excellent no start thread.

You have no fuel pump, you have an IP which it sounds like you’ve discovered. If you’re getting air out of the fuel filter or ip you’ve got an air leak somewhere. Track it down.

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Not getting any air or fuel out of the IP, it's just burning up my electric vacuum motor. I did get fuel and air out of the filter and there is no more air in the filter, I just can't get anything out of the IP.

Not unusual to get no fuel out of the pump. You're trying to suck fuel through the internal lift pump which is pretty tight. Could crank the engine while sucking on it to help get the fuel through if it lost its prime.

What pump did you replace? Who sold you a fuel pump for a 2003 TDI? Some folks have installed a pump in the fuel tank but it isn't normally there and if you installed one it won't run until you do some wiring mods.

KLXD said:

Not unusual to get no fuel out of the pump. You're trying to suck fuel through the internal lift pump which is pretty tight. Could crank the engine while sucking on it to help get the fuel through if it lost its prime.

What pump did you replace? Who sold you a fuel pump for a 2003 TDI? Some folks have installed a pump in the fuel tank but it isn't normally there and if you installed one it won't run until you do some wiring mods.

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I replaced some sort of white fuel pump or fuel pickup thing, maybe it was just the fuel level sending unit? It was under the back seat inside of the fuel tank. I'll try cranking it over while using the vacuum on the pump.

You should be able to get fuel to appear from the output side of the pump with a manual vacuum pump like a miteyvac.

If you momentarily stop applying the vacuum on the pump, does the vacuum hold for at least 30 secs?

ChazNV said:

I replaced some sort of white fuel pump or fuel pickup thing, maybe it was just the fuel level sending unit?

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Yup.

Is your fuel filter full of fuel, for sure? If not, pre-filling it will go a long way to helping the IP prime itself.

It was running perfectly for about a week. Hmmm what about before that? I wonder if we are missing part of the story.

ChazNV said:

I have a 2003 VW Beetle TDI 1.9L and it was running perfectly for about a week, then we went to go drive it and it started it, rolled out of the driveway, then puttered out and died. We pushed it back into the driveway and it sense hasn't started. It turns over but doesn't fire up. Battery is fully charged. Fuses are all good. Replaced relay 109. Didn't fix it. Replaced fuel pump. Didn't fix it. Someone suggested a fuel relay and we noticed it didn't have one where it was supposed to be. Bought one and put it in (not sure if it's supposed to have one because it wasn't there to begin with). Still didn't fix it. When you turn the key to the on position (not start), we never hear the fuel pump kick on, but we do hear a click noise under the hood. What could it be? I don't know anything about diesels or VWs, I'm lost.

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I hate threads like this.

I don't suppose you have a scan tool for the car? How can you shotgun expensive parts like an injection pump at the car (and I assume you did not install it correctly?) without first having some good diagnosis of what is wrong?

I would have started with a scan tool, before even opening the hood. Where are you located (the US is a big place)? Maybe there is someone close by that can help.

whitedog said:

It was running perfectly for about a week. Hmmm what about before that? I wonder if we are missing part of the story.

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Not really sure, bought it off craigslist and it was running great until one morning we went to back it out of the driveway, it puttered out and died in the road. The fuel tank was full so we're not sure why it acted like it ran out of fuel.

oilhammer said:

I hate threads like this.
I don't suppose you have a scan tool for the car? How can you shotgun expensive parts like an injection pump at the car (and I assume you did not install it correctly?) without first having some good diagnosis of what is wrong?
I would have started with a scan tool, before even opening the hood. Where are you located (the US is a big place)? Maybe there is someone close by that can help.

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I didn't replace the injection pump, I meant the fuel pickup/fuel level sending unit. The guy at O'Reilly's suggested it and said it was a fuel pump. I've never worked on a diesel, let alone a VW so this is all new to me. I will look into getting a scanner. I am in Las Vegas btw.

Ah, OK, so you replaced the sender. Which (as you've found out) does nothing other than tell you how much fuel is in the tank. It does have a little check valve in it, but those typically would not cause an engine stall scenario.

The VAG-specific scan tool many of us here use is VCDS, and can be sourced from www.ross-tech.com although there may be someone in your area that has one that can lend a hand.

Does the engine crank normally with a normal rhythmic sound, or does it crank with an irregular pattern? That could be a clue. Timing belt failure would be easy to check, but if it has an irregular crank that would be the telltale sign.

There's a couple of big red flags here.

1) You purchased the car off craigslist. OK, but if ever there was a valid application of caveat emptor, this is it. Where do you live, anyway? The USofA is a pretty big place, and if you can localize your location, you might find that there is some skilled help close by.

2) Read up on this site. There's tons of information available. You will find that some of the best are the usual recommendations when you buy a used TDI. Here, they all apply. First and foremost: if you don't have proof that a good TDI mechanic (and that usually doesn't include the local dealership, indy VW expert, or other european car 'experts' that tell you they know everything) changed the timing belt with quality parts (not the half-price junk made of chinesium) and all the other parts that go along with it (e.g. water pump, rollers, big roller, vacuum pump seal, yada yada yada...) then go get that done right the <bleep> now.

3) Did you save the old fuel sender? How did the tank look when you were doing that replacement? Any debris inside? Did it look like it was nice, clean, fresh diesel?

4) Can you easily suck fuel through the fuel filter? Just wondering here if the fuel filter itself is OK.

Cheers and good luck,

PH

Pull fuel from the fuel tank at the fuel filter input side. That'll help identify whether you've got a blockage from that side of the filter. If that's good then try pulling from the output side of the filter. If you don't fill the fuel filter following a change then you're going to be really struggling. Do you have and CEL (Check Engine Light) on?

And, yes, as asked (great question BTW!), how does it sound when cranking? If things sound bad here then STOP: there's bigger issues going on.

I wonder what "ran good for a week" means. Like, drove to the store, ran up to operating temperature or just idled in the garage while tinkering?

sisyphus said:

I wonder what "ran good for a week" means. Like, drove to the store, ran up to operating temperature or just idled in the garage while tinkering?

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A week at Lemons?

Powder Hound said:

There's a couple of big red flags here.

1) You purchased the car off craigslist. OK, but if ever there was a valid application of caveat emptor, this is it. Where do you live, anyway? The USofA is a pretty big place, and if you can localize your location, you might find that there is some skilled help close by.

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How does purchasing it from an ad on Craigslist any more caveat emptor than say a newspaper ad, offerup.com, or other source for individual to individual sale? His situation does not prove that at all.

The risk is the same and even buying it from a used car lot will need the same sort of skepticism as any other purchase. Not attempting defend Craigslist, but it's not to blame for being the conduit to connect people. While I haven't bought a car from that site, I have bought plenty of stuff and it's always on the buyer to be diligent when buying a used item.