Front Sway Bar, Adjustable Links?

Rrusse11 · Oct 19, 2017

I managed to score a VR6 swaybar off CL for silly money, and for another $5 got a pair of adjustable links. My guru reckons there's no need unless I'm going to set up the car for a circular track or the like.

I'm looking to stiffen up the car for towing, the "new" bar is about 3mm thicker. Any advantages/disadvantages to using them?

Cheers,
R*2

Jetta_Pilot · Oct 22, 2017

Rrusse11 said:
I managed to score a VR6 swaybar off CL for silly money, and for another $5 got a pair of adjustable links. My guru reckons there's no need unless I'm going to set up the car for a circular track or the like.
I'm looking to stiffen up the car for towing, the "new" bar is about 3mm thicker. Any advantages/disadvantages to using them?
Cheers,
R*2

When I had my 2002 Jetta I had some sway bars in the front, I also had an Evo Skidplate (which also adds a bit of stiffness) but I think one of the best was a bar that connected to tops of the struts from one side to the other.

With the front and rear done like that it cornered very flat.

Rrusse11 · Oct 23, 2017

Jetta_Pilot said:
When I had my 2002 Jetta I had some sway bars in the front, I also had an Evo Skidplate (which also adds a bit of stiffness) but I think one of the best was a bar that connected to tops of the struts from one side to the other.

With the front and rear done like that it cornered very flat.

Thanks Pilot! I've seen those front top strut tie bars, justhadn't considered them for my application. And then there are the rear pillar bars as well, tying the cabin sides together.

At this stage of my suspension mods, both could help. I've got the major stuff done, incremental tweaks would probably help. Neither
the front or rear top bars are very expensive. I won't bother with the adjustable links I'm thinking, but your advice on tying the tops of the suspension together would be helpful.

Over the last couple months I've done a couple thousand miles of towing, not particularly heavy loads on my HF 4x8 utility trailer,
and the car handles it pretty well. But anything that helps stiffen
the tracking will be worthwhile.

Cheers!
R*2

3L3M3NT · Oct 24, 2017

Do you have a rear sway bar installed? Because that will make a big difference in the handling of the car.
There are 2 different types of rear sway bars that can be installed on your car. One goes inside the rear beam and the other stays on the outside.
The inside style is sold by ID Parts and I'm sure there are a few others. Then the one that clamps to the rear beam and lower shock mounts is made by Nuespeed.

Rrusse11 · Oct 24, 2017

3L3M3NT said:
Do you have a rear sway bar installed? Because that will make a big difference in the handling of the car.
There are 2 different types of rear sway bars that can be installed on your car. One goes inside the rear beam and the other stays on the outside.
The inside style is sold by ID Parts and I'm sure there are a few others. Then the one that clamps to the rear beam and lower shock mounts is made by Nuespeed.

I got both front and rear for $30 with the end links, like I said, silly money. The rear is an H&R 25mm that clamps on the rear torsion bar, like the Neuspeed. The bar is mounted on a pair of teflon lined bushings. I don't have the T-bolt clamps that it mounts with, though for experimental purposes I might throw it on with some regular hose clamps, which will also give me the right length/size to order some t-bolts if I like it. ECS tuning wanted $75 for an "installation kit", thanks, but no thanks.

I sold my old VNT15 yesterday for cheap, but it was enough to cover the front top strut tie bar and an internal C pillar cabin brace on Ebay. Should all help with stability withous sacrificing ride quality,
which is just fine with my Koni Reds and HD Suplex springs.

Thanks for the input!

CNGVW · Oct 26, 2017

I see your guys like talking sway bars here but I have tried many real sway bars and fully adjustable setup. I am talking real racing with real racing drivers on the clock. I can safely say we have run the USA fastest VW TDI Beetle on any USA road course to date we where doing 1.26 lap times and going faster till some one cut down on the right front and ripped it off!!
below in my car at NH last week end we run no sway bars and set the fastest lap time of that track of a VW TDI or and Beetle!!

That car is coming on off front shoot at over 110 MPH and diving in to turn 1 you see no roll? we run front spring rate of 375 and 375 rear spring rate with a stock A8 bilstn strut. We can drive it any where we wish can pass any car any turn at will.
When you add front sway bar you will lift the inside tire off the ground losing traction for that wheel

Rrusse11 · Oct 26, 2017

Bob,

I appreciate the input, and man I'd love to have a spin in that car.
Buuuut, I ain't racing, especially with a trailer hanging on the rear end {).
I can appreciate that you're doing it with heavy springs and no bars.
I'm the GT style driver, lol, at least with this car. You're little beast is a whole 'nother kettle of fish!

I'm just looking to minimize the tail wagging the dog with a load out the back.

Cheers!
R*2

3L3M3NT · Oct 26, 2017

I've read that some guys will install inflatable air bags in their rear springs to keep the rear end from sagging, which in turn probably helps with the handling of the car with a trailer in tow or decreasing the amount that the trailer will influence the back end of the car.

You should post your setup in the show what you tow thread and see what suggestions you get from the guys that tow on a regular basis.

Rrusse11 · Oct 26, 2017

3L3M3NT,

Been posting there too, I was curious, as stated, whether or not if adjustable links were any kind of an advantage. Short of balancing the car, an involved process requiring some specialized equipment,
suitable perhaps for only high end track use, it would appear that it's unlikely the adjustable links would be of much use for my application.

Nice to get some input from a real racer but! Those heavy springs
would make the ride a bit tough though for getting the groceries,
or doing 11hrs at the wheel on a recent trek back from Maine.

Front bar goes in tomorrow, and with any luck, the top strut bar as well. Lift time permitting, I may well put the rear bar on as well. It depends on how bz the shop is, or how eager the owner is to get out early. I know we're thinking that we'll drop the front subframe to facilitate the sway bar installation.

On towing I got some interesting advice this afternoon from the guru's Dad. He recommended 15%-20% of the total load for tongue weight, helps reduce sway, he sets up his trailers now with some bathroom scales, and some cinder blocks to shift the weight. Here's where air bags may really help for heavy loads. Or perhaps some of the rubber spring inserts that slip in between the coils.

The teardrop camper is ~ 1200#'s, my Bosal, and Golf towing springs, should be able to handle 180# tongue weight np.
I suspect at the end of the planned cicumnavigation of the country
this spring, I'll know a whole lot more about the whole towing game.

Thanks for the input!
R*2

Jetta_Pilot · Oct 27, 2017

A long time ago when I was towing something similar to a tent trailer, folded up but all aluminum. Something in the back of my mind tells me about 35-50lb tongue weight.

Why would you want to carry around some cinder blocks, just shift weight around in the trailer.

The very best would be an equalizing hitch, but they may not be made this small.

Just balance yourself on the hitch ball and see how much your car would go down. I'm assuming you're not a 90lb guy.

Nevada_TDI · Oct 27, 2017

I learned the hard way years ago when I was towing a trailer full of fire wood, I had the trailer loaded "level" and after a few miles the trailer started to sway. It swayed enough it threw a log out behind me on the highway and it got really fun when I tried to come to a stop.

At that point I somehow remembered that the trailer tongue has to be heavy to keep the trailer tracking straight; I moved as much wood from the back of the trailer as I could to the front, and the trailer was straight as an arrow from that point on. I didn't know I had lost a log until the Highway Patrol pulled me over 20 miles later to tell me about the driver it scared the crap out of when it bounced out. I believe in effect putting more weight on the tongue increases caster by rotating the axle forward.

Rrusse11 · Oct 27, 2017

Bar went in with "fixed" links. Nice improvement on the feel of the car. Flatter in the corners, top strut bar next as well as a C pillar bar which should arrive Monday. Time will tell, stability is improved
is my initial reaction.

I'll be paying more attention to tongue weight and load balancing
when towing.

Cheers!
R*2

3L3M3NT · Oct 27, 2017

Which bar did you end up installing in your car?

Rrusse11 · Oct 28, 2017

3L3M3NT said:
Which bar did you end up installing in your car?

No name on the bar, guy had a VR6. The only thing I really know is
that it was 24mm thick vs my old one at 21mm. And that my old one was straight in the center section and the "new" had a bend in the middle, and some bushings that went in when my originals were
too small of an ID to go in.

Installation was much more involved than I realised, glad I paid the pros. Had to drop the sub frame, loosen the steering rack et al to get
the old bar out, new in. Took a couple hours on the lift, no way do
I have the expertise/motivation to do same on some Rhino ramps.

I'll have a chance today to drive it a bit more, but much flatter through the corners.

Cheers,
R*2

Rrusse11 · Oct 31, 2017

Jetta_Pilot said:
When I had my 2002 Jetta I had some sway bars in the front, I also had an Evo Skidplate (which also adds a bit of stiffness) but I think one of the best was a bar that connected to tops of the struts from one side to the other.

With the front and rear done like that it cornered very flat.

JP,

Thanks for the tip! Got my VR6 front bar in last week. The heavier sway bar made the car corner a lot flatter, and the icing on the cake was getting the top bar in today. Also did a rear internal C Pillar cross strut. Body is noticeably stiffer and solid feeling, haven't done much mileage yet, but a nice improvement to the overall dynamics for not much money.

Cheers!
R*2

Nevada_TDI · Oct 31, 2017

Mr. Ru ssell, you just keep up with more goodies that I want to buy myself... Glad to hear your improvements are actually improvements in the noticeable sense.

[486] · Nov 8, 2017

3L3M3NT said:
Do you have a rear sway bar installed? Because that will make a big difference in the handling of the car.
There are 2 different types of rear sway bars that can be installed on your car. One goes inside the rear beam and the other stays on the outside.
The inside style is sold by ID Parts and I'm sure there are a few others. Then the one that clamps to the rear beam and lower shock mounts is made by Nuespeed.

I just looked up some pictures and the geometry of this makes no sense to me at all, they're fixed to the axle beams out by the wheel hub mount, and to the axle beam back where it pivots, all mounts are to the same solid beam.

Doesn't seem like it would do anything at all unless the bar is mounted to the body.

Rrusse11 · Nov 8, 2017

[486] said:
I just looked up some pictures and the geometry of this makes no sense to me at all, they're fixed to the axle beams out by the wheel hub mount, and to the axle beam back where it pivots, all mounts are to the same solid beam.

Doesn't seem like it would do anything at all unless the bar is mounted to the body.

I'm with you [486], stiffening the twist just increases the tendency of the inner rear wheel to lift and lose traction. I went with stiffer springs, and longer shocks. Personally I want to keep BOTH rear tires on the ground.

I went with the heavier bar on the front and an upper strut tie bar.
That keeps both front wheels on the ground with less of a tendency to twist or cant, couple that with the LSD and I'm pulling thru the corners with power on. An internal cabin C pillar bar is helping to keep the body from flexing, this is the boxy Golf body. Big improvement in cornering speed.

I'm pretty much done with the suspension, now for the 2.5" exhaust
and fluidampr install tomorrow. Then some bigger nozzles and off to the tuners.

Anybody want a 25mm H&R rear bar?

Front Sway Bar, Adjustable Links?

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