TDI Sportwagen Wrecked, Where from Here?

Hi All,
I got hit a week ago while driving my 2013 TDI Sportwagen and am hoping to get some guidance related to the VW Diesel Buyback and how to get the car properly fixed if it isn't totaled.

Here is a link to the photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/J57UP4vSmjPT59Bt7

I was driving about 30 mph. The other driver pulled out from a side street on my right intending to cross my lane and turn left.

- Almost everything between the engine and the front passenger wheel seems crushed up against the passenger side of the engine.
- the right drive shaft sheered
- right A-arm twisted up
- I am assuming steering components and stabilizer bar affected.

Main Questions I have:
I had scheduled my buyback for Dec. 2018. What is my recourse if the car is totaled?

With the hit hard enough to sheer the drive shaft, how much of that energy was delivered to the transmission and what damage may there be?

If the vehicle is repairable, what criteria do I used to verify the symmetry after the repair is complete?

I saw stripped wiring in the twisted metal, should I worry?


Thanks in advance for any information/recommendations.

Mike

Exactly why I did my buyback as soon as possible.

First step is to get an assessment of the damage and see if the insurance company is going to total it. Then you can consider your options.

Look into possibility of suing the other driver/insurance to cover the full amount of the buyback value. That is what the car was worth to you at the time it was hit.

surfstar said:

Look into possibility of suing the other driver/insurance to cover the full amount of the buyback value. That is what the car was worth to you at the time it was hit.

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The insurance company is only on the hook for the NADA value of the car plus tt&l, if it is not derivable under it's own power, you will be subject to going the route of resubmitting with a totaled car and just getting the restitution from VW, as the insurance company will take the car. But if it is derivable, but sounds like it's not in your case, I would keep it even if it's totaled. And do the buy back.

VW Touareg Buyback appt

Hi!
I am new to this forum but wondered if anyone had gotten 2 different buyback quotes? I received one earlier in the month upon completion of all the online paperwork and then when I booked my appt, to turn the car in, I received an increased car value in the quote on the email confirming my appt? My mileage has not changed much from the 1st quote, if anything it has increased.

VeedUp said:

The insurance company is only on the hook for the NADA value of the car plus tt&l.

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That is not universally true. Around here (Maryland) they are on the hook for the replacement cost of the vehicle (plus tt&i). In the two cases I had where the car was declared totaled (not my fault both cases) the insurance pulled up several listings of the same model/year car for public sale, and adjusted from there for mileage/option differences. Your buyback offer should influence this calculation.

Note that some states require that if repairs are greater than a specified percentage (in MD it's 75%) of the replacement cost, the ins co Must total it.

I would suggest, based on my experience of endless circular arguments about "driveability", that based on the current behavior of VW, possibly the only way to be made whole is to (assuming the insurance totals it) take the full insurance payment and let them crush it and then take the restitution amount. NADA total payout plus the restitution should get you darned close to the buyback amount with a lot less hassle.

Bit of a hijack...but if your ongoing mileage is less than 12.5K/year from the time of settlement you will slowly gain value. If you mothball the car, drive 0 miles for a year, it will gain value in the buyback because they take the mileage at turn in and dial it back 12.5K/year to 9/2015 ...

cbens said:

Hi!
I am new to this forum but wondered if anyone had gotten 2 different buyback quotes? I received one earlier in the month upon completion of all the online paperwork and then when I booked my appt, to turn the car in, I received an increased car value in the quote on the email confirming my appt? My mileage has not changed much from the 1st quote, if anything it has increased.

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For your sake I hope it gets fixed... once it gets fixed then turn it in for the buyback. Dealing with VW with a totaled car has been a NIGHTMARE I have been waiting since last year and still no $$$ just excuses.

Motodude said:

Exactly why I did my buyback as soon as possible.

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I'm doing the fix on my 2015 Golf S TDi DSG

Having the same worries if bad happens

fredthe said:

That is not universally true. Around here (Maryland) they are on the hook for the replacement cost of the vehicle (plus tt&i). In the two cases I had where the car was declared totaled (not my fault both cases) the insurance pulled up several listings of the same model/year car for public sale, and adjusted from there for mileage/option differences. Your buyback offer should influence this calculation.

Note that some states require that if repairs are greater than a specified percentage (in MD it's 75%) of the replacement cost, the ins co Must total it.

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They still aren't going to give the the buy back value with the restitution amount. The fair market value plus tt&l is all you are going to get out of an insurance company. And LA is the same, if the damage is more than 75% of the value of the car, then regardless if it's repairable or not it will be deemed totaled. But you can ask about owner retention value and keep the car for a small amount if it's worth it for you.

I particularly enjoy those (both in this thread and others) who state that one must do the buyback NOW because of the possibility of totaling the car. As a matter of fact, that risk exists every time we get into any car— there's nothing special about a TDI that's eligible for buyback. Yeah, you'll lose some money in any car you wreck, unless you have special pricey insurance, or one of those "replacement" policies that gives you a new car for the first year or so. And the chances described, for any individual, aren't that large. We'll turn our Passat in December of 2018. I'll take my chances.

Also why should the insurance pay you more money than to the amount you agreed they'd pay you when you signed their policy, just because you have a "promise" that someone else will pay top dollar for the car.

I'm on board that you will get typical insurance pay out for KBB then your $5100 restitution.

740GLE said:

Also why should the insurance pay you more money than to the amount you agreed they'd pay you when you signed their policy, just because you have a "promise" that someone else will pay top dollar for the car.

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Unless you have a stated value policy (you don't), you didn't agree on a value when you signed the policy. You agreed that they'd pay the market value. The market value for Dieselgatemobiles is very (admittedly artificially) high right now, but the insurance should pay you what it would cost to buy a comparable TDI today.

And that market value was probably a predetermined method when you signed the policy.
The market value of my 2010 when I turned it in was about 5-6K, best condition, I wouldn't call that "artificially high".

I'll agree it'd be hard to provide comparable sales figures to the OP car, but that's only one portion of determining market value.

Just because I can't buy a brand new yugo right now doesn't mean I get 10X the amount of its scrap value.

740GLE said:

The market value of my 2010 when I turned it in was about 5-6K, best condition, I wouldn't call that "artificially high".

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I'd expect you could have easily and quickly sold it for a good bit more than that to someone like me who was looking to flip the car back to VW--and I wouldn't have cared what condition the car was in, as long as it ran. That's why the market value is artificially high.

I'll agree it'd be hard to provide comparable sales figures to the OP car, but that's only one portion of determining market value.

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No, that's pretty much what defines market value. Market value is what a willing buyer and a willing seller will agree on. It isn't what some book says the value ought to be--the books, if they're honest and competent, are reporting the averages of comparable sales. (Allegedly) comparable sales were how my insurance valued my JSW when it was wrecked in October.

Just because I can't buy a brand new yugo right now doesn't mean I get 10X the amount of its scrap value.

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Of course not--who said anything about a new anything? The comp would be a car of comparable age, mileage, and condition.

Well, it isn't a "promise", it is a contract of sale. It is documented. The insurance company keeps using the term "actual cash value" which they arrive at by trying to use every deduction they can.

I would probably be OK if the insurance would pay the KBB private party value...but they won't. They take NADA, Edmunds, KBB, chose the lowest one they can find and apply crazy deductions that seem to double dip the mileage penalty.

So on a car that shows a KBB trade-in of $13400 and a private party of $14500 (with all the appropriate adjustments for mileage, etc.) they are offering $10600 including the TTL.

And I don't know whether this should make it simpler or complicate it, but both parties are Allstate customers. The other guy is taking full responsibility, so it is being paid out of their liability coverage. So, from a liability standpoint, it is a case of them being liable for the property they destroyed. If the guy knocks down a traffic signal pole for the city, the city tells the insurance what it will cost to replace the pole and the insurance pays, not for the latest and greatest pole, but for the cost to replace the pole. That is how liability is supposed to work.

The insurance company, as I am their customer too, is supposed to operate under the principle of "fair treatment" (they are not governed by this when dealing with people who aren't their customers). I don't think trying to inflate every possible price reduction falls under "fair treatment".

Anyway, frustrated rant over. Still haggling, just wish I had my car back...

740GLE said:

Also why should the insurance pay you more money than to the amount you agreed they'd pay you when you signed their policy, just because you have a "promise" that someone else will pay top dollar for the car.

I'm on board that you will get typical insurance pay out for KBB then your $5100 restitution.

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And, BTW, I tried searching nationally for 2012-14 Sportwagen TDI and only found 1, granted with lower mileage, but was listed at $24998... I know, that is almost the new price and laughable...but apparently they are a bit like unicorns right now.

I think this may be because VW has release fixes for the Passat 2.0L, the 3.0L and everybody is holding their breath for the Jetta/Golf 2.0L fix...

DanB36 said:

Of course not--who said anything about a new anything? The comp would be a car of comparable age, mileage, and condition.

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So why not compare the value of a totaled 4 year old Jetta TDI to a Mazda 3, Focus, Civc, Cruze they are all comparable to the Jetta no?

chromeBuddha said:

If the guy knocks down a traffic signal pole for the city, the city tells the insurance what it will cost to replace the pole and the insurance pays, not for the latest and greatest pole, but for the cost to replace the pole. That is how liability is supposed to work.

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And you don't think Utilities have a rate of depreciation for their capital investments? You take out a 40 year old utility pole that's failed inspection and the utility is scheduled to replace in the next 4 years, they aren't sending you the bill for a brand new pole and all associated costs to change it out, they apply a depreciation factor just like everyone else and bill you the usable life left plus the possible OT to change it out on an overnight. You take out a brand new pole set that has an expected life of 40-60 years, then yeah you'll get the full bill of replacement. That depreciation factor is how they can reduce their tax bill year after year.

But lets no diverge from the topic too much

chromeBuddha said:

I would probably be OK if the insurance would pay the KBB private party value...but they won't. They take NADA, Edmunds, KBB, chose the lowest one they can find and apply crazy deductions that seem to double dip the mileage penalty.

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Sounds like the insurance co is looking out for insurance best interest. I agree with the buyback it's gray area for the market value for replacement of these and what insurance will pay out.

When you stated VW was going to pay more than that for your car, they magically doubled how much they were going to pay for it?

Our 2015 Passat will be in the same boat the entire time we have it, I'm aware if the wife totals it on the ride home tonight what was $35K two months ago would only be $15K coming back to us. Hence why the lease isn't that bad of an idea.

740GLE said:

So why not compare the value of a totaled 4 year old Jetta TDI to a Mazda 3, Focus, Civc, Cruze they are all comparable to the Jetta no?

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Um, no. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Looked at damage pics and I can assure you your car will be totaled by insurance company (maybe that's already been established). The apron frame is bent badly and the subframe attach is likely bent. Those two will easily total the car.

If I saw this at an auction I'd stay away. Too much uncertainty for me especially with the bottom end damage. With that in mind I'd sell it back to the insurance company and apply for resititution, about 5k, from VW.

On a side note I don't think there's any tranny or engine damage. You might have some components that might need replacing on the forward end of the engine but nothing major. The axle break looks like a combination of getting smacked and being loaded (driving the wheel). It's not a pure shear.

740GLE said:

Sounds like the insurance co is looking out for insurance best interest. I agree with the buyback it's gray area for the market value for replacement of these and what insurance will pay out.

When you stated VW was going to pay more than that for your car, they magically doubled how much they were going to pay for it?

Our 2015 Passat will be in the same boat the entire time we have it, I'm aware if the wife totals it on the ride home tonight what was $35K two months ago would only be $15K coming back to us. Hence why the lease isn't that bad of an idea.

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My insurance has to pay replacement cost plus tax/title/reg. If the market cost is up then they pay more. If VW suddely clears all their TDI turnin lots at an 'any car $4,995' clearance sale, then everyone of us take a huge beating, insurance companies would win big because they will have much lower comp pricing to compare. Hopeully VW would rather crush cars than resell and warranty hundreds of thousands of buyback+fixed cars for pennies on the dollar.

So, do you think it is worth shopping it around to local salvage yards to see if it is worth more than 2K to them (that is what the retain cost from the insurance co is) and try to make up my shortfall there?

Or should I get all entrepreneurial, pay the retain and try to put it back together enough so VW takes it. I would just hate to think they might actually sell it to someone later...

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's input. I have the car in my drive. I walk out every morning and get nostalgic about 81K worth of good times in the most enjoyable car I have driven... Getting sentimental in my middle age I guess.

fookin said:

Looked at damage pics and I can assure you your car will be totaled by insurance company (maybe that's already been established). The apron frame is bent badly and the subframe attach is likely bent. Those two will easily total the car.

If I saw this at an auction I'd stay away. Too much uncertainty for me especially with the bottom end damage. With that in mind I'd sell it back to the insurance company and apply for resititution, about 5k, from VW.

On a side note I don't think there's any tranny or engine damage. You might have some components that might need replacing on the forward end of the engine but nothing major. The axle break looks like a combination of getting smacked and being loaded (driving the wheel). It's not a pure shear.

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Chrome,

I don't know how it works with your insurance co and retain cost. However, it is likely someone will buy the car at auction if it's an eligible car for buyback (meaning it wasn't salvage title prior to certain dates), fix it back up, and apply for full buyback amount.

Fixing the car yourself is time consuming and it's a personal choice, depending on how handy you are or how much you like to be handy. If you know some body shops that are in the business of fixing salvage title cars then you might get a good deal on fixing it. I think you'll need a body shop to do some frame straightening/welding. Then, everything else is remove/replace. I bought a lot of parts on ebay, aftermarket Taiwanese hoods and fenders, primed, that were much cheaper than OEM German parts.

Note that if you fix it you have to go thru the hassle of a brake, light, dmv inspection... and then you have to wait an indefinite amount of time getting your buyback claim on a salvage title car to get processed by vw. I'm at 14 weeks now. Others are longer.

It's all dependent on the value of your time.

Just an update for anyone who may find themself in this situation...

I called the local VW dealer and asked to speak to a TDI Ambassador. The rep told me that the VW offer letter is a binding legal document. In her experience people who have presented this to their insurance company have gotten within $500 of their buyback offer amount. She recommended completing the submissions online and waiting for the buyback offer letter.

Will update when completed.

Mike