2016 TDIs

There are probably some 2016 2 liter diesels that have never been sold and have been sitting at a dealer's lot for more than a year. Most likely the engines have not been started or run for at least a year. Assuming VW comes up with an approved fix for the emissions and the price is right, is it a good or bad idea to buy one of these cars? What damage, if any, can have occurred?

afmeyer9 said:

There are probably some 2016 2 liter diesels that have never been sold and have been sitting at a dealer's lot for more than a year. Most likely the engines have not been started or run for at least a year. Assuming VW comes up with an approved fix for the emissions and the price is right, is it a good or bad idea to buy one of these cars? What damage, if any, can have occurred?

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I don't think so. What I have read and heard from many sources is NO 2016 VW TDIs were ever sold or even delivered to dealers in the US. My understanding is that VW manufactured and shipped many 2016s but had not submitted their official request for approval of the sale of 2016 TDIs in the US when the news broke.

A salesman I talked with in OR told me he had seen some at the port but they were never delivered. I don't know if he was correct but assume he probably was. He said he thought the cars he saw or heard about had already been removed and shipped elsewhere.

There are probably a thousand or more new unsold 2015s in dealer inventories all over the country which have been held under a stop sale order. They will probably be modified to reach the new lowered emissions standards and offered for sale in November or later.

My question is whether the engines, transmissions, etc. will have deteriorated because of sitting for > 1 year.

afmeyer9 said:

My question is whether the engines, transmissions, etc. will have deteriorated because of sitting for > 1 year.

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Why would they deteriorate? Before starting they should have fresh fuel and check of oil and antifreeze levels.

? dried out seals, lack of lubrication leading to corrosion damage. I don't know; that's why I asked.

Unused and improperly stored cars deteriorate due to the elements. Direct sunlight very day while other parts of the car are shaded can cause some areas to dull in comparison to others. Rain, snow, ice, hail?, damp climate with continuous dampness . . . Engine oil slowly drains away from iron and steel parts and slowly the oily film can dry. At least one intake or exhaust valve remain partially open when an engine is resting which means exposed to air. The air filter is still in place but still exposed to open air. Tires and exposed rubber slowly rot.

I'd guess that most of the batteries are junk due to tiny parasitic electrical drain.

Many components of an idle car are slowly deteriorating even though those are "new" cars with near zero miles.

Chances are good that no real harm is done during the year to year and a half of outside storage but at least technically those cars are slowly deteriorating.

Some Barn Finds sit for 20-30 years and still can be restored a couple of years should mean very little and I would buy one if the price is right.

dwfdiesel said:

Some Barn Finds sit for 20-30 years and still can be restored a couple of years should mean very little and I would buy one if the price is right.

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I considered a new/old 2015 TDI and might have bought one also if I had not found a car I liked better that was available immediately.

I'm not saying I wouldn't consider buying a 2015 TDI (I would) but the fact of some deterioration should be recognized.

But many of the barn finds you referenced have rusted cylinder walls that cause severe piston ring damage as soon as they are started after years of neglect. Some have seized engines.

There was another thread on here saying the 2016s that were at the port were shipped back for resale in the African market.

Yes, no 2016 MY cars made it past port and have since been shipped elsewhere.

There is a post somewhere here, in these forums, someone talked with a dealer who had a number of 2015 TDIs. The dealer stated that the cars were started and driven (around the block?) once a month.

The 2015 cars were driven monthly according to reports...the dealers were paid by vvw to drive them for about 30 minutes per month....to keep them in salable condition.

More information:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=465895

ZippyNH said:

The 2015 cars were driven monthly according to reports...the dealers were paid by vvw to drive them for about 30 minutes per month....to keep them in salable condition.

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I have my doubts that dealers actually did that. I talked to several dealers large to small in various locations around the country after I saw they were advertising 2015 TDIs on cars.com.

I got comments from salesmen suggesting no such driving ever occurred.

A saleswoman at a CA dealer told me they were not allowed to even go near the storage lot and she couldn't even tell me what was there or take a deposit.

A salesman in Salem, OR called me on his cell phone as he squeezed between the 2015 TDIs jammed into a parking lot as he tried to read MSRP stickers to tell me what he had.

My overall impression obtained from talking to several salesmen at different locations is the cars were kept somewhere distant from their stores, somewhat inaccessible or not easily accessible, and they had little knowledge of their inventory.

There were certainly no routine monthly drives at those two large VW stores.

HBarlow said:

I have my doubts that dealers actually did that. I talked to several dealers large to small in various locations around the country after I saw they were advertising 2015 TDIs on cars.com.

I got comments from salesmen suggesting no such driving ever occurred.

A saleswoman at a CA dealer told me they were not allowed to even go near the storage lot and she couldn't even tell me what was there or take a deposit.

A salesman in Salem, OR called me on his cell phone as he squeezed between the 2015 TDIs jammed into a parking lot as he tried to read MSRP stickers to tell me what he had.

My overall impression obtained from talking to several salesmen at different locations is the cars were kept somewhere distant from their stores, somewhat inaccessible or not easily accessible, and they had little knowledge of their inventory.

There were certainly no routine monthly drives at those two large VW stores.

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Well...then don't deal with those dealers....they are dishonest scammers....
Good dealers can tell you exactly what they have, and tell you, and even let you speak to the responsible person.
If you play with snakes, you will get bit someday....sounds like you have a dishonest dealer. Sorry to hear that.

I was just at the largest dealership here in Indy (and in the state) and checked out the '15s. They are kept on another lot in the neighborhood (along with the Takata airbag cars) and, according to the sales rep, maintained on a weekly basis. You can put down a 1000 dollar deposit and get the car once the 'fix' is performed. I was told they would be significantly discounted. I would have considered one but found out about them too late. The few left were not to my liking.

HBarlow said:

I have my doubts that dealers actually did that. I talked to several dealers large to small in various locations around the country after I saw they were advertising 2015 TDIs on cars.com.

I got comments from salesmen suggesting no such driving ever occurred.

A saleswoman at a CA dealer told me they were not allowed to even go near the storage lot and she couldn't even tell me what was there or take a deposit.

A salesman in Salem, OR called me on his cell phone as he squeezed between the 2015 TDIs jammed into a parking lot as he tried to read MSRP stickers to tell me what he had.

My overall impression obtained from talking to several salesmen at different locations is the cars were kept somewhere distant from their stores, somewhat inaccessible or not easily accessible, and they had little knowledge of their inventory.

There were certainly no routine monthly drives at those two large VW stores.

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I know my local VW dealer has been starting the cars every month or so. As evidenced by the unsaleable tdi's being parked in a different corner of the lot. They even still have one brand new (ish) leftover 2014 jetta tdi. The only thing I might be slightly concerned about is rust on the brake rotors. Fortunately, that is super easy to check.

South Coast Guy said:

Why would they deteriorate? Before starting they should have fresh fuel and check of oil and antifreeze levels.

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Sun fade interior, and paint, dead Batteries -- yuck

The very minor age related wear is one of the reasons they will be marked down significantly. They won't sell you a car with a dead battery. You wouldn't be able to drive off the lot.

2015vwgolfdiesel said:

Sun fade interior, and paint, dead Batteries -- yuck

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Naww....
Modern cars do fine in the sun....and sitting let's the paint to harden more....no warnings about not washing a new car too soon...and diesel fuel, unlike modern unleaded has a infinite lifetime if it is cleaned and dry, in a sealed area (new tanks in a new car, so it should be clean and dry, no moisture).
Interior fade....hm...feel sorry for anybody who can't park their car inside in a garage even at work then...lol...that means about 90% of cars sit outside all day....even if they garage it at home....
Honestly, I'd have no worries. Besides....with a new car warrenty starting at day 0, lots of time to get stuff fixed if anything has issues....
In retrospect, they might be the best DIESEL cars VW ever sells...lowest prices, and best warrenty when you include the extended warrenty from the repairs.
If somebody likes VW TDI cars, imo a 2015 is a shrewd buy....keeps you in what might be the last VW TDI cars sold, new at a used car price! The pinnacle of tdi technology....with a lower price than the rest of the 2015 owners paid for it....
If you can find a car optioned the way you want, imo go for it.

ZippyNH said:

The 2015 cars were driven monthly according to reports...the dealers were paid by vvw to drive them for about 30 minutes per month....to keep them in salable condition.

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Think about the man hours required to go to the remote storage location, maneuver the cars which are tightly packed in limited space at high volume dealers with a large inventory of stop sale TDIs out into the steet, then drive them around for 1/2 hour.

If a dealer has 100 cars in storage which I've heard is a fair estimate at several high volume dealers, that's close to 100 man hours or two and a half 40 hour man weeks per month.

It would be less of a challenge at a lower volume dealer.

How about the miles that would accumulate on the odometer of the stored cars over more than a year of monthly 1/2 hour rides. A 30 minute drive would add 30 miles to each car each month if driven at highway speeds. Do you want some salesman putting 300 - 400 miles on your "new car?"

I remain skeptical. I've worked in auto dealerships. A car is simply a unit of inventory to dealership managers. Just a commodity. I don't believe the majority of dealers are driving them. It's a a typical easy off the cuff lie for a salesman wanting to tell a customer what he wants to hear.

My new golf had 400 miles when I bought it. I do suspect those were some pretty hard miles, but it's running great at 140k miles. I honestly wouldn't worry much if they hadn't been started at all. Many cars sit unused for years at a time and don't rust up.

turbobrick240 said:

My new golf had 400 miles when I bought it. I do suspect those were some pretty hard miles, but it's running great at 140k miles. I honestly wouldn't worry much if they hadn't been started at all. Many cars sit unused for years at a time and don't rust up.

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Agreed. The Audi I just purchased was leased to the dealership for three months to use as a service loaner. Carfax showed it had 2300 miles when lease ended but 2800 miles when I bought it. The discount made the accumulated miles pretty insignificant.

I drove it another 1400 miles just to get it home. I've owned it less than a month and it has 5400 miles on the clock.

I couldn't tell it wasn't just off the showroom floor when I picked it up in St. Paul, MN.

It's hard to hurt one unless you do something really stupid like causing it to overheat or intentionally abuse it.

ZippyNH said:

Naww....
Modern cars do fine in the sun....and sitting let's the paint to harden more...

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Expanding on the above:

Modern cars are coated with two stage paint: the base coat is acrylic color and typically two to three thin coats are applied. The second stage consists of a urethane clear coating that is catalyzed with a hardener. Typically, it is mixed 4 to 1 with the catalyst and two to three coats are usually applied within an hour after base is applied. It's a chemical process and does not get any harder once the chemical process is complete. The process of hardening is typically complete in 24 hours after coating and may be accelerated by heat application. Assembly line paint booths may vary the application coat process and method of accelerated hardening.

Sitting out in the sun for short periods does no significant damage to the clear coat. Long term exposure (years) from the sun's ultraviolet rays will attack the clear coat and damage it (yellowing, crack failure, etc).

Add the depreciation for any of these cars on top of the fact that they've been sitting and the assumption (at least MY assumption) that they haven't been driven or "exercised" or etc., and I wouldn't consider such a car for less than a five-figure discount off the sticker. Then I'd use some of the money I saved to buy all the warranty I could get.
And I have grave doubts that I'd buy one even with this kind of discount......

My folks just got a notice from their dealer, claiming that 2016's were still in port and may be ready to sell when the fix is approved. It seems that there are so many rumors in this regard it's hard to get any idea of what's actually happening. I do remember walking a lot last year a dealer, full of 2016's that were part of the stop sale, and the dealer then told me they were holding on to them until they heard what the final decision was.

I realize that the approval that came through today was for Gen 1 vehicles, but since there hasn't been a post in this thread for nearly a year, is there any chance that there are 2016 TDI's available with the Gen 3 fix? Maybe VW is holding them somewhere waiting to clear out the 2015 inventory. Last I heard, they came into port but never went to the dealers, and maybe were all shipped out of the country for foreign sale.

Last I read was they were barred from sales and not allowed past the port. They had to do something for the cars that people actually own. But no 2016's were sold and I doubt they would let them in under the new fixed emissions agreement. Now if they could get them to pass the existing emissions requirements you might see them put up for sale. Not likely though.

HBarlow said:

Unused and improperly stored cars deteriorate due to the elements. Direct sunlight very day while other parts of the car are shaded can cause some areas to dull in comparison to others. Rain, snow, ice, hail?, damp climate with continuous dampness . . . Engine oil slowly drains away from iron and steel parts and slowly the oily film can dry. At least one intake or exhaust valve remain partially open when an engine is resting which means exposed to air. The air filter is still in place but still exposed to open air. Tires and exposed rubber slowly rot.

I'd guess that most of the batteries are junk due to tiny parasitic electrical drain.

Many components of an idle car are slowly deteriorating even though those are "new" cars with near zero miles.

Chances are good that no real harm is done during the year to year and a half of outside storage but at least technically those cars are slowly deteriorating.

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Thats why your car must be destroyed after two years. All cars that are exposed to oxygen, rain, dust, ultra-violet and other harmful death particles all go bad. There are NO cars on the road over two years old.

Lightflyer1 said:

Last I read was they were barred from sales and not allowed past the port. They had to do something for the cars that people actually own. But no 2016's were sold and I doubt they would let them in under the new fixed emissions agreement. Now if they could get them to pass the existing emissions requirements you might see them put up for sale. Not likely though.

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Why can't they give them the same fix that the 2015's got and then sell them?