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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old February 7th, 2008, 13:25   #1
twigless
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Default Chevron: Diesel Fuels Technical Review

I've been looking around the fuel vendors' sites, trying to find info as to whether they are fully ULSHD compliant, or to what percentage, etc. So far, only Hess has said that they are 100% ULSD (can anyone argue that?). Shell said that every pump is labeled (I can argue that).
Chevron lead me to something else, which was very interesting but way beyond me. This pdf file is for all you scientists and tech-heads. Pretty cool stuff:
http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...ech_Review.pdf
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Old February 7th, 2008, 13:32   #2
dieseldorf
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Mr. Twig, 80% of all diesel fuel produced in the USA is ULSD. Wherever the LSD is, there isn't much of it to worry about
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Old February 7th, 2008, 14:05   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldorf
Mr. Twig, 80% of all diesel fuel produced in the USA is ULSD. Wherever the LSD is, there isn't much of it to worry about
I don't worry about it, but my customers do... I have about a half-dozen Mercedes clients driving 2007 320CDI Bluetec engines, and they need it to be ULSD. Last week, my most recent client was in a bit of panic because she stopped at three stations who either had LSD or had no sticker. So for her, I'm trying to do some research about it.
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I am Business Manager for a VW/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Volvo dealer in N Florida... ask questions!
2008 Z4 3.0si, prem, sport, step, heated M seats
2000 Golf GLS TDI 4-door 5m 164k+ (w/VanAaken)
1999 Cabrio GLS 5m (84k)
2002 Jetta GLS TDI auto (sold@76k)
1998 Jetta Wolfsburg auto (sold@114k)
1986 Golf GL 1.8 gas 5m (sold@138k)
1988 Scirocco 1.8 5m (sold@109k)
1990 Corrado G60 5m (parted@142k)
(and Honda, Fords, GM, BMW, Volvo, Jeep)
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Old February 7th, 2008, 14:29   #4
tditom
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Thanks very much for sharing that, twigless!

I only gave it a quick scan for now, but plan on laboring through it. I would like to high-light a point made in this document:
Quote:






NCWM Premium Diesel




Fuel Property Test Method Recommendation







...

Lubricity, 60
°C, WSD, microns, max* ASTM D 6079 520
* ASTM D 975 adopted the same lubricity requirement starting January 2005. Currently,
the NCWM lubricity requirement states that if a single test result is more than 560 microns,
a second test shall be conducted. The average of the two values can not be greater than
560 microns.












Please note that the acceptable HFRR wear scar tests results for lubricity in the US are ~22% higher than those recommended by Bosch and accepted in the rest of the civilized world.

P.S. I commend you on supporting your customers after the sale to this level!

I don't think MB would be OK with "80% of the US diesel is ULSD so we're probably OK"
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Last edited by tditom; February 7th, 2008 at 14:32.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 14:32   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tditom

Please note that the acceptable HFRR wear scar tests results for lubricity in the US are ~22% higher than those recommended by Bosch and accepted in the rest of the civilized world.

....and that sux Who did the arm-twisting to get that sub-standard value certified as "acceptable" It's not in my garage.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 14:36   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldorf
.... Who did the arm-twisting to get that sub-standard value certified as "acceptable" ...
Here are some notes from the ASTM meetings. The following quote is telling.
Quote:
This proposed specification will provide a starting point that would protect the injection equipment without creating harmful side effects and unnecessary cost to the fuel suppliers.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 14:39   #7
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from another set of meeting notes:
Quote:
This item was passed by Subcommittee E and was moved to Committee D2. At that level, it received three negatives. One negative vote was submitted by Mr. Henry Burmeister, Buckeye Pipe Line and already had been withdrawn. At the ASTM meeting in Phoenix on December 8, 2003, Mr. Burmeister stated that he would like to have the members vote on it. It was voted to be not persuasive. The detailed voting results are in the attachments to this document.

Also a negative vote by Mr. Buster Brown, Colonial Pipeline was voted to be not persuasive.

One item of a total of two items in a third negative vote submitted by Ms. Joan Kaminski, ExxonMobil, represented at the meeting by Ms. Donna Hoel, was voted to be persuasive and resulted in killing the ballot.
kinda indicates who is making these decisions
it's not only folks who design fuel injection systems
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Old February 11th, 2008, 15:15   #8
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Just another reason not to give them any of my money.
I have not used any of their products since the Valdez spill...
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Old February 16th, 2008, 03:21   #9
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has anybody got info on BP, they make great fuel in europe why cant they just send it here, i just got back from portugal and was blown away at the fuel they use. there regular gas starts at 95 octane and there diesel is at a 50 cetane rating and know its new they have a ultra diesel that "they say " will increase there preformance and use less fuel.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 04:13   #10
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Different octane rating in Europe: system is RON giving higher number for the same stuff, rather than the US MON or PON. Your numbers may be lower, but from the octane angle, it could be a better fuel! Here's an explanation and comparison table: http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html
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Old February 16th, 2008, 07:23   #11
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Around here, all the diesel fuel is from the same fuel depot. Bet it's the same where you are.

Last edited by d2305; February 16th, 2008 at 07:25.
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Old February 17th, 2008, 15:29   #12
Gil
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He he.
Same fuel depot!

Years ago a friend who worked on the tankers told me that when they were near the port they would radio in to find out what type of gasoline was needed. Do you all remember some gasoline had colors?
He said they would add dye into the tank and let the waves mix it up so as to have the right color.
Blue and gold colors come to mind!

ALL THE SAME STUFF.
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