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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old November 20th, 2018, 11:52   #1
petee_c
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Default Rotella T6 in 2015 q7 TDI

Just wondering if anyone is running this?

I'm thinking about picking up a 5 gallon pail of it, and wondering if anyone is using it in their gen 2 3.0L TDI's? I've used it for the past 50K+ miles on my 06 BRM Jetta TDI.

We had a 2011 q7 TDI that is being bought back... I always used 507 oil in it, but given how dieselgate went, not sure I trust the VW engineers anymore...

T6 is a good oil, and it looks like it would be suitable for vehicles with DPF....
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Old November 20th, 2018, 14:17   #2
GreenLantern_TDI
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If you dont care about voiding your warranty. VW is very specific about 507. Most 507 oils seem to be of very good quality to me.
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Old November 20th, 2018, 18:17   #3
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My experience with VW 507 was not positive. I ran 2 Used oil analysis and it did not hold up for 10k miles on a 4L sump. I believe VW engineers sacrificed engine longevity for emissions system longevity. Knowing what I do now I will never use a low saps oil again.

You can try mid saps like 505 or Dexos 2.
Or full HDEO CJ-4 in 5w40.

This oil is kinda middle of the road between mid saps and HDEO. https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/u...sae-5w-40.html
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Old November 20th, 2018, 20:46   #4
GreenLantern_TDI
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Do u have the analysis report so we can see these results?
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Old November 20th, 2018, 20:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern_TDI View Post
Do u have the analysis report so we can see these results?
No on mobile now.

It’s posted on bob is the oil guy.com.

TLDR: alkalinity (TBN) depleted at 10k interval w/ soft metal wear usually from corrosion. Second test at 8000 miles showed TBN at 2.5. Marginal but still OK. Never exceeded 7500-8k on oil change interval after testing.

You guys who run 10k without oil monitoring are relying on pure faith in VW engineering which is highly suspect after dieselgate.

I’d only do 10k on 507 if it was 100% freeway with minimal traffic. It’s just safer to change it early or use better oil IMO.

Last edited by CleverUserName; November 20th, 2018 at 21:01.
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Old November 21st, 2018, 06:22   #6
oilhammer
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I have several customers with over 300k miles on their CR engines running the proper 507.00 oil and they still run like new, with 10k mile intervals. I'd not worry about the oil.

If you do a DPF/EGR delete, you can even run them 25k miles between intervals....maybe more.

OP: I would only run the correct oil in your car, with a quality filter (Mann, Mahle, Hengst, Purflux, etc.), because VAG will gladly do ANYTHING they can to weasel out of any warranty claims should they arise. No need to tempt fate.
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Old November 21st, 2018, 07:05   #7
CleverUserName
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Default 10K OCI w/ VW 507 oil

Here is my 10K report. Ignore the 5w40 as that is a typo. It was Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 in this sample.

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Old November 21st, 2018, 08:14   #8
IndigoBlueWagon
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So how is that not positive?
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Old November 21st, 2018, 09:07   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
So how is that not positive?
To much to explain, google how to read Oil reports and what is considered normal. This was a fully broken in engine on its 4th or 5th oil change.

When an oils alkalinity is depleted, as in this sample it becomes corrosive and starts attacking the softer metals used in bearings.

There shouldn’t be any bearing wear metals in a “good” sample. Bearing wear is abnormal and does not track with mileage like other metals. Iron and chromium for example.

Seeing Tin is a bad sign and not good for long term engine health.

The 2nd report I ran at 8k miles confirmed my assumptions. Although the base number was low, it still had reserve alkalinity and didn’t have any traces of tin.
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Old November 21st, 2018, 09:17   #10
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Which liqui-moly was this? Top Tec 4200 or Longlife III?
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Old November 21st, 2018, 10:56   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Which liqui-moly was this? Top Tec 4200 or Longlife III?
It was Top Tec 4200. I believe this was purchased from you as well.
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Old November 21st, 2018, 13:44   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverUserName View Post
My experience with VW 507 was not positive. I ran 2 Used oil analysis and it did not hold up for 10k miles on a 4L sump. I believe VW engineers sacrificed engine longevity for emissions system longevity. Knowing what I do now I will never use a low saps oil again.

You can try mid saps like 505 or Dexos 2.
Or full HDEO CJ-4 in 5w40.

This oil is kinda middle of the road between mid saps and HDEO. https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/u...sae-5w-40.html
I switched over to hdeo because my car doesn't require low saps anymore and it's cheaper and more available. Plus, now I use the same oil for my car, truck, and tractors. Your experience with 507 seems to be somewhat of an outlier. Most of the 507 UOA's look just fine at 10k miles. The fuel economy penalty resulting from going from 5w-30 to 5w-40 probably wipes out any savings on the oil itself.
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Old November 21st, 2018, 15:35   #13
tikal
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Perhaps your TDI is still breaking-in, more urban driving, etc. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverUserName View Post
Here is my 10K report. Ignore the 5w40 as that is a typo. It was Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 in this sample.

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Old November 22nd, 2018, 03:06   #14
CleverUserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Perhaps your TDI is still breaking-in, more urban driving, etc. ...
Most modern engines are fully broken in within 1,000 miles. And there were 4 oil changes before this sample so any residual break in metals were already flushed out.

My typical driving cycle consists of 70/30 to 60/40 Freeway/City driving %. I do not spend more than 5% in gridlock traffic or any other severe use category.

Note the following:

-High flashpoint, Low fuel dilution
-Oil has normal viscosity for a 30w (no shearing or oxidative thickening)
-Low insloluables
-Low silicon

All these factors above indicate the oil is in good shape, filtration was effective and no external factors caused the excessive engine wear. The only thing out of line is the base number is depleted so the oil has become acidic from accumulation of combustion by-products.

Also worth noting that I live in CA and our D#2 is > 53 cetane, the best in the country. I always used Chevron fuel as it gave me the best MPGs. So this isn't a fuel quality issue either.

In my experience, VW 507 oil did not hold up in normal usage for the manufacturers recommended OCI. If you search BITOG.com you will find other 507 reports like mine, with high wear and depleted TBN at 10k or less.
If the CBEA would have been equipped with a 6 qt sump like the MK VII cars, there would be enough dilution to maintain alkalinity for 10K.

VW engineering screwed up or the executives made a business decision to carry over the oil sump from the BRM and it is too small for this application IMO.

With all that said. If you assume that VW 507 oil will protect your TDI, you are sadly mistaken-especially if you have a CBEA, CKRA or CJAA with a small oil sump. It took me many years to realize this and I will never use a low saps oil again in any diesel application.
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Old November 22nd, 2018, 03:23   #15
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Here is my second sample @ 8000 miles.

Base Number is marginal @ 2.5

Same oil, Top Tec 4200 5w30

No Tin detected.

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