AdBlue and Fuel Pump Failure

AtlantaRene · Sep 16, 2012

Yes, I agree that the coincidence is statistically unlikely making the fuel pump failure curious.

I do not have an OBD scanner so I do not know the diagnostic codes for the AdBlue pump failure. I did not ask for them and it was not offered to me. The service advisor stated they never saw the code before and this first AdBlue pump failure they seen in this car.

Yes, the car operated normally with the check engine light on. I drove home that night about 8 miles and the following day I drove about 35 miles to run an errand and to the dealer. I reached highway speeds but did not drive aggressively.

I am unclear on the last questions. I know that there were extra steps were taken to diagnose the AdBlue pump failure but I don't have details. The mechanic stated that he did not observe any evidence of contamination.

AtlantaRene

tdiatlast · Sep 17, 2012

StoneCrab said:
...5. Could water in the fuel cause HPFP failure? Does this car have a serviceable water separator outside of the fuel filter?...[/QUOTE]

You need to do some reading re: HPFP failures and possible causes. CR TDIs do NOT have a water separator outside of the fuel filter, and the issue of water fouling has been discussed with pages and pages of speculation over the ossible causes of HPFP failure.

While I appreciate AtlantaRene's insistence that the dealership did nothing wrong, and these failures were random/coincidental, I would offer that a tech/jockey DID something to cause the HPFP failure. Who knows? Maybe some moron put AdBlue in the fuel tank?

VeeDubTDI · Sep 17, 2012

The HPFP and the AdBlue pump are completely unrelated and separate systems. It's purely coincidence that the two failures happened in close proximity to one another.

Cut out the speculation and stick to facts and good information. Otherwise I will recommend that we create a Chicken Little forum and all speculative HPFP drama threads will be moved there.

StoneCrab · Sep 17, 2012

VeeDubTDI said:
The HPFP and the AdBlue pump are completely unrelated and separate systems. It's purely coincidence that the two failures happened in close proximity to one another.

Agreed they are separate systems, but you really think these two failures are only coincidental and random? Possible yes, but extraordinarily improbable. The service work itself could have caused the HPFP failure, via misfueling or contamination, but that would still make these events conditional and correlated. Just trying to run some logic here to better understand what happened.

tditom · Sep 17, 2012

StoneCrab said:
...you really think these two failures are only coincidental and random? Possible yes, but extraordinarily improbable. The service work itself could have caused the HPFP failure, via misfueling or contamination, but that would still make these events conditional and correlated. Just trying to run some logic here to better understand what happened.

Several of us have concluded this already. The OP appears to not believe it and can't really determine that it happened without cooperation from the dealership in question. Not really worth discussing anymore.

wanabe · Sep 18, 2012

shelbydog25 said:
my $ is on the dealership misfueled it when they conducted their 50+ miles of test driving. Based on your post, the dealeship fixed the fuel pump/system components on warranty, without any questions if you misfueled. seems to point to me as as admission, withou admitting it.
If so, this doesn't indicate a defective fuel pump on the passats. I too haven't seen any reporst of fuel pumps going bad on these. we have 8,500 miles on ours since purchase in Late June. no issues.

I distinctly remember a previous Passat failure blamed on misfueling. Sorry, but I consider that and this as a flaw in the Passat HPFP just like the Jettas. etc. The only good news is that the total cost to repair it seems to be less.

VeeDubTDI · Sep 18, 2012

Let's say that the one you're talking about is true - I don't remember it. That's THREE failures out of tens of thousands in a year and a half.

TomB · Sep 18, 2012

The error from the AdBlue system could have been in response to gasoline being used. Gasoline would have dramatically change the exhaust temp, composition, oxygen content and particulate matter.

The AdBlue adjusts to clean up the extra NOx and that varies based on the load of the engine.

I wonder if this drove a message saying a failure or if the adblue pump actually failed. Would be curious to know.

tditom · Sep 18, 2012

TomB said:
The error from the AdBlue system could have been in response to gasoline being used. Gasoline would have dramatically change the exhaust temp, composition, oxygen content and particulate matter.

The AdBlue adjusts to clean up the extra NOx and that varies based on the load of the engine.

I wonder if this drove a message saying a failure or if the adblue pump actually failed. Would be curious to know.

The problem with this theory is that the car was running fine when the AdBlue pump failure occurred. After they replaced the defective pump is when it ran poorly and the hpfp failed.

AtlantaRene · Sep 18, 2012

tditom said:
The problem with this theory is that the car was running fine when the AdBlue pump failure occurred. After they replaced the defective pump is when it ran poorly and the hpfp failed.

When I first got the car, I found myself having to retrain my right foot. Several times I would accidentally spin the tires pulling out in traffic in a difficult to navigate intersection near my office. For several weeks to follow, if I needed urgent acceleration, I had to moderate how hard I'd attempt to accelerate to "avoid losing traction". I don't know if other TDI owners have had this experience or something odd about my car.

After the first service and on the day of the fuel pump failure, I had two coworkers in the car where I demonstrated that I could accelerate aggressively with ease. A few blocks later, the car stalled and then was towed to the dealer.

Since getting the car after fuel system replacement, the acceleration properties of the car are unchanged since the AdBlue repair. The new acceleration properties are OK. Since I don't have the language to describe it, I would say it's now "mature power delivery" -- ample acceleration without spinning the tires.

I sort of miss the original behavior but that's the teenager in me screaming for his youth.

-- AtlantaRene

VeeDubTDI · Sep 18, 2012

So you're saying that since you got the car back, it will no longer spin the tires if you mat the accelerator from a stop?

AtlantaRene · Sep 18, 2012

VeeDubTDI said:
So you're saying that since you got the car back, it will no longer spin the tires if you mat the accelerator from a stop?

It's hard for me to describe the behavior and the measurements I am giving you are not exact.

In the traffic situation near my office people are driving faster than the posted limit around a blind corner. I pull out at 1/4 to 1/3 throttle, if I see quick oncoming traffic, I would quickly go to about 3/4 throttle and this would cause the tires to spin and traction control to engage. Also, I could goose the accelerator while slowly moving and it would spin the tires. Those properties are gone. I can make these throttle position changes without an issue -- I just get a reasonable amount of power.

Now, I have only tried this once since getting the car back. I'd have to go to 3/4 throttle from a stop, it would hesitate and then spin.

Considering we are using tire spinning as a measurement, guess I should say that I have the Bridgestone Touranza 235/45R18 tires on asphalt during an Atlanta summer.

AtlantaRene

Lightflyer1 · Sep 18, 2012

AtlantaRene said:
After the first service and on the day of the fuel pump failure, I had two coworkers in the car where I demonstrated that I could accelerate aggressively with ease. A few blocks later, the car stalled and then was towed to the dealer.
-- AtlantaRene

Ouch! That had to be impressive.

767wrench · Mar 19, 2013

Not sure if there are any more recent occurrences than this one but my in tank pump has failed at 26500 miles. Noticed a grinding, thrashing sound from the fuel tank that increased over a week accompanied by a few instances of strange throttle responses of reduced power. Dealer has replaced the in tank pump and I am picking up the car today.

ChadS99SVT · Mar 19, 2013

767wrench said:
Not sure if there are any more recent occurrences than this one but my in tank pump has failed at 26500 miles. Noticed a grinding, thrashing sound from the fuel tank that increased over a week accompanied by a few instances of strange throttle responses of reduced power. Dealer has replaced the in tank pump and I am picking up the car today.

In tank fuel pump? Is that the high pressure pump that people always refer too?

Sucks to hear regardless. Especially since I think you had a turbo fail too.

kjclow · Mar 19, 2013

No, in-tank pump and hpfp (high pressure fuel pump) are two seperate and completely different animals.

VeeDubTDI · Mar 19, 2013

In-tank pump is low pressure (comparatively) and the high pressure pump is located on the engine and driven by the timing belt.

767wrench · Mar 19, 2013

ChadS99SVT said:
In tank fuel pump? Is that the high pressure pump that people always refer too?
Sucks to hear regardless. Especially since I think you had a turbo fail too.

This pump pumps fuel from the tank up to the high psi pump. They said it was 330$ and pretty easy to access. Its under the back seat. The high pressure fuel pump is engine driven and is most likely very expensive just from experience on powerstrokes. I dont know what the price tag is for ours. Yes I also had the turbo failure recently. Hopefully my car will start behaving now. I may change my fuel filter because I dont believe they did. It sounded like a bearing or bushing on the electric motor went bad and maybe let the impeller rub. But I definitely dont want any HPFP problems! Idk how long that pump is under warranty but Id gladly change a filter to avoid dealing with another major failure.

767wrench · Mar 19, 2013

On the bright side Ive been given a loaner both times and the dealer has repaired everything no questions asked. I was worried they were gonna play the contaminated fuel card even though this wasnt a high psi pump issue.

kjclow · Mar 20, 2013

767wrench said:
The high pressure fuel pump is engine driven and is most likely very expensive just from experience on powerstrokes. I dont know what the price tag is for ours.

From the OP (First post of the thread)

AtlantaRene said:
I just received a call today that my car is done, somehow they managed to replace $4580 of parts for $830 of labor.

detroitmike · Mar 20, 2013

No one gets a key.

VeeDubTDI · Mar 20, 2013

I think VW finally quit playing the contaminated fuel card - they really have no grounds for it now that they've issued zillions of yellow warning stickers and redesigned the fuel fillers to make it nearly impossible to fill with anything other than an auto diesel nozzle.

Salsaman06 · Mar 20, 2013

detroitmike said:
No one gets a key.

Now thats what I'm talking about. When in doubt, lock 'em out.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

rdwalton · Jun 30, 2014

My engine light on my 2012 TDI Passat came on yesterday. Took it to the dealership this morning and got the dreaded "adBlue pump failure". Cost me $145 to run the diagnostics and for them to tell me it would cost $2000 to fix it. Only 63k miles on the vehicle. I've done my maintenance by the book on this car and VW has all the records since it was done at VW dealerships.

Haven't noticed any engine performance issues, but the service advisor says that I will get the dreaded "adBlue" warning and it will tell me that I can drive xx number of miles before the engine will not start the next time.

I'm done with VW's - going back to Honda and Ford.

kjclow · Jun 30, 2014

Call VW customer service before you give up. I would think that the Adblue pump is considered part of the emissions and should be covered longer.

rdwalton · Jun 30, 2014

kjclow said:
Call VW customer service before you give up. I would think that the Adblue pump is considered part of the emissions and should be covered longer.

I did call them and they asked me several questions about if I've done the maintenance every 10K miles as required (and I told them I had and have the records) and asked me for the dealership where the diagnostic test was performed (and I provided). They stated that they would investigate and that the "regional case manager" would call me within 24 hours. We'll see if I get a call and what they say.

tditom · Jun 30, 2014

rdwalton said:
My engine light on my 2012 TDI Passat came on yesterday. Took it to the dealership this morning and got the dreaded "adBlue pump failure". Cost me $145 to run the diagnostics and for them to tell me it would cost $2000 to fix it. Only 63k miles on the vehicle. I've done my maintenance by the book on this car and VW has all the records since it was done at VW dealerships.

Haven't noticed any engine performance issues, but the service advisor says that I will get the dreaded "adBlue" warning and it will tell me that I can drive xx number of miles before the engine will not start the next time.

I'm done with VW's - going back to Honda and Ford.

Isn't the adblue pump part of the emissions system, and isn't that system covered by an 80k mi warranty?

rdwalton · Jun 30, 2014

Well that's what I thought too, but apparently it's not b/c the service advisor asked me if I had an extended warranty.

tditom · Jun 30, 2014

I'd check your warranty paperwork closely.

rdwalton · Jun 30, 2014

Just got the official answer from VW about this and they stated that the "particular parts" that I need are not covered under the 80k mile emissions warranty, but rather the 2 year 24k mile warranty. So I figured they would find a way to not cover this. Either way, I was done with VW. I could see if I hadn't done my scheduled maintenance on time or at all, but to do the maintenance and pay all that money for scheduled VW maintenance and this happens, SMH.

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