Hill holder?

My Passat TDI with auto has a scary driving problem. A route I used to take every few days is now being bypassed by a three mile trip.
The problem is a steep hill to a stop sign then a left turn into a nonrestricted traffic flow. You see a opening then give it fuel and shoot out into the traffic stream, hopefully.
The problem is that you have a second or more delay before anything happens when you let off the brake and press the go pedal. By that time the opening you are watching is closing and you are creeping out into traffic then a power surge propels you out where you dont want to be.
Scared me shixless a couple of times, now I make a long detour.
Question can the hillholder cause this delay? Can it be reflashed or adjusted?
I notice this problem any time I stop on steep hills. I just dont make turns anymore from a stop on top of a hill.
We have a lot of hills where I live and this is annoying and dangerous.

Any thoughts?

I almost got killed by a pickup during my first week of ownership due to this very same problem- both by getting hit and also because the guy actually did a U turn and chased me down he was so mad at me for pulling out so slowly. He thought I was being a punk pointing to his brush guard and yelling "next time I wont slow down" followed by many choice words- and Its not just hills- whenever you stomp it to the floor it seems to de-rate power down to nothing for what seems like forever. not sure if this is to avoid smoking the clutches or emissions related but whatever the reason its scary as **** Sport mode seems to work much better in reducing this issue. I wonder if one who owns a 6mt can roll along at idle then smash it to the floor and see if the manuals have a 2 second delay?
This is also why I love my old dodge, hard linkage strait to the pump, whenever the pedal is moved the injectors instantly respond. They delay in all throttle by wire rigs drives me crazy

IF "Hill Hold" is your problem, it can be turned off using VCDS. I have a 6mt Passat and Hill Hold holding the brakes on when I was trying to start up, and causing me to stall the engine, frustrated the daylights out of me and within the first 3 weeks of owning the car I turned HH off.

I have never detected hill hold to have any impact on throttle response. It sounds more like the traction management system kicked in and reduced power. I've never had an issue pulling into traffic, but I do know that if you tromp on the long pedal too hard the tires will break loose and traction control jumps in.

its strange, no delay if you normally take off but if you smash it to the floor it will delay by a second or two before giving any fuel. Just sits there at idle creeping into fast traffic at walking speed

I've been driving manual shift cars since 1974. The HH feature frustrated the hell out of me. Find someone with VCDS and turn it off.

HillbillyJim: I assume from your description that you're driving a DSG.

The DSG is quirky. It doesn't like, for whatever "engineered" reason, full-throttle (quick) mvmt of the go pedal. Many here describe the best way to accelerate rapidly is to "roll into" the throttle. If you don't do this, you will experience the dreaded delay.

There have been a few here that just couldn't learn the method, OR, they had cars that had excessive delay. That is open to debate. The driver does have to adapt.

You can minimize this delay by releasing the brake pedal 1-2 seconds before you need to move. (in my experience, this is when the HH actually is beneficial, if you're on a hill!) It's very similar to what you would do driving a manual, but...you have to avoid sudden full-throttle application. Also, keep in mind that even a slight touch on the brake pedal will de-fuel the engine, and confuse the DSG.

Hope this helps. If you're interested, there are probably dozens of DSG threads discussing this exact scenario.

I have adapted using sport mode and not having the brake lights lit up keeps the ECM more ready to go, rolling into it works but then sometime risks a 2nd gear takeoff. If you don't mind the beeping holding with the hand brake works too

I turned off the hill holder on our car for just that reason.

On a stickshift car you can reduce the hill holder "level" which works ok, since you start moving the clutch and it will release. But on the DSG it isn't needed on non mountainous roads IMHO.

-J

I still don't think the OP's has a hill holder issue. I'll also offer that, on the rare occasions I encounter a steep hill/stop, the HH comes in quite handy.

Problem is that on steep hill, I stop and let off brake the car starts creeping backward meaning you press on brake again and restarts the long delay before you take off.
I will be going to dealer for first year service soon. Will they turn off hillholder? If not how do I deactivate this feature?
To me this is a very dangerous feature. Drivers should not be expected to go through a training lesson to learn to use their brakes and throttle.
A design feature that the government needs to look at.

fords powershift is even worse, add in chattering and burnt clutch smell to the delay problem

If the HH is functioning properly, and the hill is steep enough, your car should NOT creep backwards. Your description just doesn't make sense to me.
Hope you get it worked out. The DSG is quirky, for sure, but the benefits, IMHO, far outweigh the quirks.
Played with my 2014 NMS tonight, on a hill. HH works, and no problem pulling away briskly ("rolling" into the throttle).

tdiatlast said:

If the HH is functioning properly, and the hill is steep enough, your car should NOT creep backwards. Your description just doesn't make sense to me.
Hope you get it worked out. The DSG is quirky, for sure, but the benefits, IMHO, far outweigh the quirks.
Played with my 2014 NMS tonight, on a hill. HH works, and no problem pulling away briskly ("rolling" into the throttle).

Click to expand...

Exactly. "Rolling" gently onto the throttle can still be done in a way to get your desired result but you have to be "one with the car" and know its limits. It is something you definitely would want to tell someone about if they had to borrow your car because the behavior is unique to VW (vs various other mfgs) in my experience and traction control kicks in fast.
If you are starting from a stop on a steep enough incline you have to remember the weight will shift back on the initial acceleration making the front tires break loose that much faster compared to flat ground. You then trip traction control and the power gets cut. Then you get into the herky-jerky routine with you and the computer trying to sort out the best way to add or cut power to keep you moving.
While I don't agree totally that the learning curve should be so steep compared to other technologies/cars where you can just get in and go, you definitely want to practice a few times so you get comfortable with the best method.
Edit: My experiences in regards to my Passat comments are with the DSG only.

Yup. I managed to stall mine the other day, because...for whatever reason...the hill start assist delayed in releasing. It felt like trying to take off with the parking brake on. I rolled off the clutch as I was applying fuel, it sort of lurched a bit (but no real forward movement), and then just stalled out (as if I had the parking break set). It released fine the next time around. I was lucky that there was no traffic coming.

I have a steep hill that I have to stop at every time I leave my neighborhood (where the above mentioned issue happened). For whatever reason...the car just has an issue with that hill (hit or miss...the hill start assist is just VERY slow to release).

I have two things to add - one: The hill hold isn't just time based - it is also RPM based. Unfortunately, that RPM level is too high for a diesel (may work better on a gasser). It took me quite a while to realize that it worked that way and I hated it until I did.

Second - I didn't see any mention of it, but make sure you aren't left foot braking and trying to hit the 'gas' with your right foot (DSG cars). The ECU will pull power trying to prevent some kind of stuck throttle situation.

I have a 2012 SE TDI. So a manual transmission. I have driven manual since I was taught how to drive in a 1936 Maxwell truck. (At least that is what I was told. Never have been able to verify the year or make.) When I first got my license, my father took me to San Francisco to learn how to drive hills with a manual. So I sort of know how to do it with out the hill hold. First time this 'feature' kicked in, the car stalled. Sigh. Took me a while to find out how to turn the stupid 'feature' off. Since I did, I have not stalled on a hill.

You "manual" guys have more control than us DSG guys. (yeah...go ahead and gloat!)

Problem with a DSG is, w/o HH, the instant you begin to roll back, driver will instinctively stab the brake, which (as mentioned above) will confuse the ECM...then your clutch engagement is like a 15-year-old trying to get the car moving...too much throttle, tire slip, traction control kicks in...repeat.

One can use the parking brake, but given the quirks of the DSG, it just still isn't linear.

Parallel parking in San fran and Seattle on those 30% slopes is rough on the ol' DSG clutches too. Blackstone didn't find any more fiber than normal but man oh man did the DSG hate slow backing up those slopes

It always puzzles me they picked such a tall ratio for reverse - it's taller than 1st!

-J

compu_85 said:

It always puzzles me they picked such a tall ratio for reverse - it's taller than 1st!

-J

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I couldn't agree more and it's not just VW's!

Tall reverse is ultra silly....unless you enter a cloud of propane gas! Good thing no plug wires were bad

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqsKQ9R47CM

I adapted to the car (DSG) within the first few days of owning it. With more time behind the wheel it became more normal. Again, I adapted to the car. I remove my foot from the brake and the car will begin to move forward on flat or slopes (down). I've never hated the ability to move forward briskly on this car.

On inclines, there seems to be another second or two til the brakes are released. Then throttle and power are returned, imo. Reverse took longer to get along with.

I've never had stick for a daily driver, but I've driven 5 to 18 speeds for years as my daily work driver ;-) Nothing seems crazy or quirky given the nature of the DSG. It's a manual automated. The hardest part of manuals is clutch operation from a stop. Computers are programmed to work in many scenarios for this function. I've driven a few big rigs with different approaches to handling this. They differed from little to big. HH off may help you adapt, but it's still YOU that needs to get used to VW's DSG. .02

As had been stated before, "left-footed brakers" will REALLY hate the hill-holder feature. I am (was) one of those. Went back to the standard right-foot brake method and everything is OK again. Also found out if you "feather" the brake pedal, it'll work better too.

I have a 6 speed manual and I disabled mine with vcds. I've only owned manual tranny cars in my lifetime. I can start to release the clutch and when it starts to engage, within a split second my right foot is on the throttle and at that point I'm in complete control. Regardless of the steepness of the hill.
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I've seen some use the parking brake and release it when they have clutch/throttle control.

sohccammer427 said:

I have a 6 speed manual and I disabled mine with vcds. I've only owned manual tranny cars in my lifetime. I can start to release the clutch and when it starts to engage, within a split second my right foot is on the throttle and at that point I'm in complete control. Regardless of the steepness of the hill.
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I've seen some use the parking brake and release it when they have clutch/throttle control.

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I had a memeber here try to disable mine and was unable too ,he only saw 3 settings for hill hold .

I have him set it to the mildest one and its still annoying .

Ptplayers said:

I had a memeber here try to disable mine and was unable too ,he only saw 3 settings for hill hold .
I have him set it to the mildest one and its still annoying .

Click to expand...

I've kept detailed documentation of my few vcds changes. They are at home with my users guide. I'll post back what settings I changed to disable. I did test it, so to say, hilltop stop/start, and it does appear to be fully disabled.

You don't disable the hill holder in the adaptation, you have to remove it from the ABS module long coding.

-J

sohccammer427 said:

I've kept detailed documentation of my few vcds changes. They are at home with my users guide. I'll post back what settings I changed to disable. I did test it, so to say, hilltop stop/start, and it does appear to be fully disabled.

Click to expand...

Thank you

Robert

Rats, forgot to look but I believe this is exactly what I did and it worked.
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http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=690843&postcount=196
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Like Gadget Guy said, it's in the ABS control module.