God Bless Oilhammer!

Just back from my $$$ vacation to St.Louis. Passat seems to be running real well(I probably just jinxed it). A Supreme Court justice once said "I cannot define 'pornography,' but I know it when I see it." Well, I am not a mechanic, and have very little mechanical knowledge/ability. But I know a good mechanic when I see one! Thanks, Brian!

Sweet, glad you got it fixed! It's like a whole new car again, isn't it?

I know I already asked you a while ago, but are you planing on coming to TDI Fest this year? If so, which car are you bringing?

BRUSSELS BELGIAN said:

God Bless Oilhammer!

Click to expand...

+1.

It's a shame we can't clone that fella and put him in each state around the country! How many other mechanics can get folks in need of (VW TDi) service to drive half way across the country

I agree with you fellows. I wish the club had 49 more(one for each state!) Oilhammers to learn from.

Unfortunately, there are always the dissenters... Like this one:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2661657&postcount=43 It seems his panties are in a bit of a twist....

Bill

The problem in the case of the B5.5 there is so much denial circling around this repair. Those of us who have had this procedure done on our car, whether it be at OH or at another decent facility, raise their hands in agreement re the need.

"re the need" for VW to stand up and fix it

You can "re the need" all you want. keep fixin' what ain't broke and VW will not see an issue or a need to address the "need". VAG did not get to be one of the largest companies in the world by fixing what is not broken. We can hoot and hollar all we want, point to the fact that they redesigned the module due to a weakness, they won't care because they didn't break afterall, but they sold alot of the new modules

leicaman said:

The problem in the case of the B5.5 there is so much denial circling around this repair. Those of us who have had this procedure done on our car, whether it be at OH or at another decent facility, raise their hands in agreement re the need.

Click to expand...

keypecker said:

You can "re the need" all you want. keep fixin' what ain't broke and VW will not see an issue or a need to address the "need". VAG did not get to be one of the largest companies in the world by fixing what is not broken. We can hoot and hollar all we want, point to the fact that they redesigned the module due to a weakness, they won't care because they didn't break afterall, but they sold alot of the new modules

Click to expand...

So owners should NOT fix their cars?? Umm, What?? Confused. If they don't fix the BS, it will take out the oil pump and the entire engine....

Bill

Thanks, Jack, and everyone else, for the kind words and thanks so much for making the trip to see me.

Enjoy your new chainless ride!

Yes, some folks feel the need to whine and cry when they are corrected. They also seem to think I make some sort of commission off of this, and am somehow just raking the cash in... truth be told, I have NO shortage of work. This is why these BHW upgrades must be scheduled out so far in advance, because I also have many other things to do as well. And I actually do these jobs for LESS than what I should, just to help people get it done. Engine mounts, alternator pulleys, ATF flushes, etc. are always done free of any additional labor. And those of you that have stayed and watched the work being done know first hand how involved the job really is, and that our labor charge of 8 hours is more than fair.

It is great to meet so many nice folks, though. Lots of people from Wisconsin, one of which nearly had me in tears about a cheese storage building that burnt down, sending a river of molten cheese 1/4 mile down the street!!!

Home too!

We too just arrived home from our vacation. The car drove absolutely flawlessly the whole 700 miles home. It is so much smoother now, not to mention the horrendous racket is gone.

I only watched the first hour or so of the procedure, but that's all I needed to see to know I was leaving the car in the most capable of hands. There is no doubt that Brian is the best there is when it comes to this procedure and he is definitely doing this community a great service. I beat the nickels and dimes out of processes and products for a living, and I can tell you that Brian could teach the best lean manufacturing specialist a thing or two about efficiency and working smart. He deserves every bit of the 8 hour labor charge and then some.

If anybody else is on the fence about getting this done and where, I highly recommend Car Doc Automotive. Brian, Debbie and Pame are the best there are at what they do. They really made the 24 hours of driving worth every penny.

Thanks Brian for helping us fall in love with our B5.5 all over again!

keypecker said:

You can "re the need" all you want. keep fixin' what ain't broke and VW will not see an issue or a need to address the "need". VAG did not get to be one of the largest companies in the world by fixing what is not broken. We can hoot and hollar all we want, point to the fact that they redesigned the module due to a weakness, they won't care because they didn't break afterall, but they sold alot of the new modules

Click to expand...

The sprocket on the balance shaft module of our Passat was very clearly worn. You know, like the teeth on the rear sprocket of your motorbike look just before they bend over and your butt is no longer propelled forward when you twist the right grip. I guess I could have been imagining the horrendous racket though.
I chose to do the work before the oil light imlluminated unexpectedly on the interstate in the middle of the night, which may or may not require a more costly repair but definitely much more time and agony. Car is paid for, upgrade is paid for, I am gonna sleep good if VW never gives me my money back. I will get my money's worth back out of the car sometime over the next 250k miles.

Hey Sprocket!

I'm bringing the now chainless B5.5 I've decided that to bring the TWO TIME best in show B4 would be beating up on you guys too much. So, I'm bringing the B5 so you guys have a (ghost of) a chance!

Now I can bring the B4 and not have sleepless nights over this! All kidding aside, I'm glad that you were able to make your schedule work. See you at fest!

Rotflmao.......Still haven't got laid, Huh Jack??????

keypecker said:

You can "re the need" all you want. keep fixin' what ain't broke and VW will not see an issue or a need to address the "need". VAG did not get to be one of the largest companies in the world by fixing what is not broken. We can hoot and hollar all we want, point to the fact that they redesigned the module due to a weakness, they won't care because they didn't break afterall, but they sold alot of the new modules

Click to expand...

Best of luck when it goes. We will all be very very sympathetic.

Smokerr said:

Best of luck when it goes. We will all be very very sympathetic.

Click to expand...

Apperently he does not understand that VAG did indeed fix what WAS broken, back in 2006, and in 2008 came up with this upgrade for cars built prior to 2006. This is hardly something I invented.

I, and many others, have no interest in just letting it break and having VOA tell us to go fly a kite.

oilhammer said:

...And I actually do these jobs for LESS than what I should, just to help people get it done. Engine mounts, alternator pulleys, ATF flushes, etc. are always done free of any additional labor. And those of you that have stayed and watched the work being done know first hand how involved the job really is, and that our labor charge of 8 hours is more than fair...

Click to expand...

My understanding is the VW labor guide lists 13.5 hours for this job - yes, OH is doing the job for much less than he should. ...labor charge of 8 hours is more than fair - that is an understatement!

Still Another Chainless Wonder!

I too just returned from a St. Louis vacation/balance shaft module replacement done by Oilhammer. My car also sounds great! All my "normal" rhythmic chain noise is gone and in addition another troubling sound my car had it gone! It had, within the last year or so, developed a whirring noise that was heard most clearly when slowing down and when the car downshifted. It had the sound of something rubbing where it shouldn't have been. Well, it's not doing it anymore! I know it's been said over and over, but after chain removal it sounds like new, or maybe better than new.

Brian did a great job! In the 5 or so hours that it took him to give my car the complete treatment (gear drive balance shaft module, water pump, alternator pulley, engine mounts, trans flush, bleed the brake lines) he never stopped working! He is clearly the best there is, and deserves all the praise he's received here. Thanks again Brian!

Personally, I don't care if I fixed what wasn't broken. All I know is, this car WAS going to break eventually. The noises I had been hearing were NOT normal and were NOT good! I felt like we were driving a time bomb. Well, it's now been defused, and I feel great driving it again!

Labor Costs

Until you see Brian do the work on your car, don't complain about his labor costs! I've never seen a mechanic work harder, or more efficiently than Brian did. He never stopped working the whole time I was there, and there was absolutely no wasted time. He was very deliberate in his work, and definitely did not rush the job. He just knows exactly what to do, and exactly how to do it best. Because of that, he gets the job done quickly AND well!

And yes, this is a complicated procedure. My car was a pile of parts with no front end, and the engine essentially removed from the car within about an hour after arrival. I was completely amazed at how much disassembly was required and was very impressed with how efficiently the Passat jigsaw puzzle was put back together! And with better fitting pieces!!

I must agree that there a B5s out there that definitely need their BS upgraded from a chain drive to a sprocket. However, I find it hard to believe that all B5s need immediate attention with $$$ spent on the upgrade.

As a General rule, if its not broken (or grinding) don't fix it. Your B5 may have matching BS tolerances that will allow the car to drive forever.

Also, one more fine point: Changing from a chain to a sprocket will always reduce the noise level. This is independent of the status of the chain. Tha it a fact. Now think about that.

M2B said:

I must agree that there a B5s out there that definitely need their BS upgraded from a chain drive to a sprocket. However, I find it hard to believe that all B5s need immediate attention with $$$ spent on the upgrade.

As a General rule, if its not broken (or grinding) don't fix it. Your B5 may have matching BS tolerances that will allow the car to drive forever.

Also, one more fine point: Changing from a chain to a sprocket will always reduce the noise level. This is independent of the status of the chain. Tha it a fact. Now think about that.

Click to expand...

Well, if you knew so much about it, then you would realize that the chain drive HAS sprockets and that the replacement BS drive consists of two helical gears.

M2B said:

As a General rule, if its not broken (or grinding) don't fix it. Your B5 may have matching BS tolerances that will allow the car to drive forever.

Click to expand...

The same flawed rationalization applies to timing belts, too. There is often no warning prior to this type of failure.
It's not broken: You are smart to save your money for other things. Twenty seconds later: It's broken and your bigger repair will set you back out about three times the part cost and about 5 times the labor cost.

M2B said:

As a General rule, if its not broken (or grinding) don't fix it. Your B5 may have matching BS tolerances that will allow the car to drive forever.

Click to expand...

As a general rule, you're dead wrong. As another general rule, newbies have much to read and learn...

My point exactly! A BS with two helical gears will make less noise straight out of the factory, then a BS with a chain and two gears. Man, this is basic mechanics of how things work.

Having said that: It is easy for someone to justify a chain BS module replacement with a gear by saying that the change reduced noise. Ofcorse this change will reduce noise. Even if there is nothing wrong with the chain BS.

Most of my VW mechanic friends will agree with the fact that there is a tolerance issue with the BS module shaft and the oil pump it goes into (it has nothing to do the sprocket and chain, the chain or balancer failure is only a byproduct of vibration created by the shaft). Furthermore, the cars with very bad BS tolerances have most likely failed by now or are exhibiting some serious noise symptoms. Very distinct noise symptoms as was pointed out on several threads here.

But, if a piece of mind is worth $3.5k to someone. Then I understand.

Cheers

M2B said:

My point exactly! A BS with two helical gears will make less noise straight out of the factory, then a BS with a chain and two gears. Man, this is basic mechanics of how things work.

Having said that: It is easy for someone to justify a chain BS module replacement with a gear by saying that the change reduced noise. Ofcorse this change will reduce noise. Even if there is nothing wrong with the chain BS.

Most of my VW mechanic friends will agree with the fact that there is a tolerance issue with the BS module shaft and the oil pump it goes into (it has nothing to do the sprocket and chain, the chain or balancer failure is only a byproduct of vibration created by the shaft). Furthermore, the cars with very bad BS tolerances have most likely failed by now or are exhibiting some serious noise symptoms. Very distinct noise symptoms as was pointed out on several threads here.

But, if a piece of mind is worth $3.5k to someone. Then I understand.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Were these failures byproducts of vibration?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2458847&postcount=10

I don't think so.

M2B, et al., please continue this (yet another) debate/discussion in another appropriately titled thread. They are legion.

dlai said:

As a general rule, you're dead wrong. As another general rule, newbies have much to read and learn...

Click to expand...

Check out this post showing a very interesting poll. The post is overwhelming evidence that most chain BS will not fail or shown symptoms.

If you understand GD&T (Geometric Dimenshoining & Tolerancing) you will realize that one side of the scale you will get a very loose fit, however on the other side you will get a snug fit (or even slight interference).

All i'm saying is that all the loose fit Balance Shafts have already failed or show symptoms.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=202297

M2B said:

Check out this post showing a very interesting poll. The post is overwhelming evidence that most chain BS will not fail or shown symptoms.

If you understand GD&T (Geometric Dimenshoining & Tolerancing) you will realize that one side of the scale you will get a very loose fit, however on the other side you will get a snug fit (or even slight interference).

All i'm saying is that all the loose fit Balance Shafts have already failed or show symptoms.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=202297

Click to expand...

FWIW, VW is not the only manufacturer to run into this problem. Ford, for one, is more forthcoming. The fact with this chain setup is that there is a "problem" with symptoms that include increased noise, vibration and move to sprocket tooth shearing and chain damage as well as damage to the other supporting pieces. I didn't invent the word problem. The auto manfacturers have spent millions on understanding this and have identified the issue as a problem. When companies spend this kind of money on research to understand this as well as changes in parts and processes (think VW here), it is for reasons more than customer discontent...

I have said and will say again:

Every single one of these is making noise MORE than when it was new. I bought mine brand spanking new, and mine was one of the quieter ones at 82k miles when it was upgraded, yet it still was noisier than when new and quieter (much) afterwards. How much is subjective, of course. And how long and how bad it can get before failure...nobody really knows since the failures are really all over the place. M2B, if you bothered to go back and read all the threads about this issue, you'd clearly see you are barking up the wrong tree.

I think the nonbelievers simply have not heard the before and after. If your BHW has over 50k miles on the clock, I guarantee you it is making MORE noise than it did when new. I have done over 60 of these now, I have a pretty good ear for them.

I would also think that all the other folks testimonies of the before and after NVH would be 'overwhelming evidence' that there obviously is in fact a problem, and that the longer you wait the closer you'll get to tooefing the engine.

Thanks again for all the kind words sent my way, I really appreciate the feedback.

I'm Gettin' It All The Time!

tomo366 said:

Rotflmao.......Still haven't got laid, Huh Jack??????

Click to expand...

Tomo: you forget that I have so MANY women lusting after me that when I left Peter and Julie's house I FORGOT to take my MEDIUM PLAYMATE back to Philadelphia with me!

oilhammer said:

Thanks again for all the kind words sent my way, I really appreciate the feedback.

Click to expand...

It's all I can do for you at the moment, noone will ship Wisconsin cheddar until October, something about the heat.

M2B said:

If you understand GD&T (Geometric Dimenshoining & Tolerancing) you will realize that one side of the scale you will get a very loose fit, however on the other side you will get a snug fit (or even slight interference).

I think I have a pretty good handle on it, BSME and all, and what you say is true only if the GD&T was done wrong. The whole purpose of setting manufacturing tolerances is so that even with the tolerance stack-ups, the parts will still function together as intended. Otherwise you end up doing things like part culling/matching to eliminate the stack-ups, which is about as stupid as one can get when mass producing things. It's always easier and cheaper to just set up the tolerances correctly in the first place.

All i'm saying is that all the loose fit Balance Shafts have already failed or show symptoms.

All I'm saying is good luck with your car, if it starts sounding like mine did, you will want to have it fixed before the chain breaks and takes out the front cover and/or tooefs the whole engine. Of course I guess you could always get one of your VW mechanic buddies to fix it for the cost of parts, which will definitely exceed the cost of the upgrade if you just did it now. It's your money.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=202297

Click to expand...

I am done feeding the newbie troll now.
Thanks again to Brian for searching out the updated parts and having the know how to actually solve VW's screw-up permanently.