building an ALH for a lifted Jeep Cherokee

well i will be putting my old 2003 ALH into my 99 cherokee to make my 11mpg gas 6cyl into a 35mpg ish? fun daily driver.

my jeep forum build thread so far
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1094425

post #85 is where my brother Alex22 says what he did to this motor
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=307098&highlight=alex22&page=6

we are not happy with the dishes in the piston which caused the compression to lower, harder to start in the winter and poor mileage. it was set up to use the larger colt stage 3 cam.

The engine had about 140K so nothing was too warn out, Here's what I did:

• Decked the block the minimum amount to clean it up.

• Rigid honed the cylinder bores for new ring break in.

• New piston rings on the factory pistons.

• Intake valve reliefs cut .030 deeper and .080 larger in diameter.

• Exhaust valve reliefs cut .045 deeper and .060 larger in diameter.

• Measured clearances.

• All new bearings and bolts.

• Basic 3 angle valve job, intakes and exhausts. When I checked the factory valve job one of the exhaust seats did not lap in so I used the intake seat cutter who's flow and swirl numbers were closest to the factory (marginally better.) I used a basic 3 angle exhaust seat cutter on the exhausts. The factory valves were reground.

• Minimum resurface on the cylinder head.

• ARP head studs.

• 3 hole head gasket was required.

• Balanced rotating assembly to race spec.

• South Bend DD clutch kit with a 22lb flywheel.

• Stealth race pipe.

• New timing set and replaced all of the one time use bolts.

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since this needs to be a low end TQ and HP motor what mods would you suggest?

i have a 17/56 i can use or my old 17/22 although i hear that once you go to the 17/56 you never go back. i would like the more power and higher boost capability that is possible with that.

as for cam, keep the stock or should i go with something larger but one that i can use the standard OEM type valve train so i don't need to custom make something. my brother doesn't have hundreds of hours to spend researching this stuff anymore.

pistons.... i am thinking it would be best to get a set of stock pistons or? not sure what there is for options, going larger isn't something i really want to do with this motor for time restrictions since that requires a complete rebuild.

i will be using the HPA Jeep/TDI kit, well parts of it as they do not have a direct bolt in for an XJ yet but will sell be bits and pieces of the kits they have.

thoughts from you guys?

Jeep pic

In my opinion, a 17/56 would be too large for you. For wheeling, you will want the boost/tq as close to idle as possible. With a 17/56, the RPM range for boost/tq will be pushed much higher to an un-useable range for you.

here2learn said:

In my opinion, a 17/56 would be too large for you. For wheeling, you will want the boost/tq as close to idle as possible. With a 17/56, the RPM range for boost/tq will be pushed much higher to an un-useable range for you.

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Not necessarily true. He never stated his crawl ratio and whether auto or manual Trans. Im willing to bet his crawl is over 50:1 which means you'll be well above idle to do 2mph. Properly geared rigs aren't anywhere near idle when crawling around.

Run a 11mm pump, race 520s, and either a 1756vk/2056vl, or a 04-05 Passat vnt17 stock turbo if you really want low response over peak power. It would be a hoot in a jeep. A colt stage 2 would be a nice drop in to help breathing with no valavetrain mods needed.

sorry, need to add some info....

auto trans, AW4 which is the stock Jeep trans but will be all manual control since the tranny shift controller need to talk to the engine to work in a "Drive" fashion. since this will have a TDI that does not talk i can't have a true auto.

the only reason i suggested the 17/56 is that my brother has one laying around, bought it from CERBER back when he actually shipped what people paid him for. the 17/22 i have now will be going on my new car since i want to de-tune it by removing the 20/56 on there now.

RPM wise, i would like to have most of my boost power under 2,000 or max out at just over 2,000 in normal driving conditions. i am not too concerned with off road driving as it doesn't really matter. if i am doing something that needs "power" i'll be in 4 low with my foot on the floor turning 4,000+ RPMs anyway. i mostly want to have it like my car with 17/22 was, nice and low, the car i have now lags till about 2700 and then really comes alive but under 2,300 doesn't have much.

i like the stock Passat Turbo idea, are those relatively cheap? also do i really need the larger injectors and 11mm Pump to make power under 3,500?

as for my custom bastard Colt Stage 3ish cam..... i would really like to run it since i have $500 into it that i'll never get back. i see on RyanPs site he has high lift springs and other valve train parts, does he sell the other needed parts to run a large lift cam? the machine work is already done to my head. just the valvetrain is u[ in the air.

nice looking jeep Sardo .... I'm running the passat 1749va and its a great turbo, vnt15 like low end grunt but I can still make decent power at higher rpm's ... I also appreciate the turbos mounting location up high, I feel it's a better location match for longitudinal swaps ... all this being said I have a pd170 bv43 on the shelf as well as a 1756vk both of which I want to try on my truck .... the bv is pretty much plug n play with the setup I have now the VK not so much .... as above go with an 11mm pump for fuel delivery, I'm running 12mm but its unnecessary

does the 11mm pump make that big a difference down low?

i have one so i might as well use it.

as for MPG, will a cam decrease it? like the stage 2

Cam doesn't change mpg from what I've experienced.

11mm pump gives more pressure, so I assume more low end fueling possible.

Can you fool the auto "drive" function somehow with an arduino or such?

no idea on the tranny "drive"function, i'm making it into a manual so i don't really care about that. i've been wanting to make it that way for a while now so i have control over it, it likes to shift low. i just picked up a donor one last night that i'll be going over and getting a valve body done up for. it it a Toyota tranny pretty much, just slight differences.

I looked at the build thread - what a great discussion - but I don't see mention of aftermarket rods.

Probably be good to put 'em in now if you go with the big turbo.

sardo_67 said:

no idea on the tranny "drive"function, i'm making it into a manual so i don't really care about that. i've been wanting to make it that way for a while now so i have control over it, it likes to shift low. i just picked up a donor one last night that i'll be going over and getting a valve body done up for. it it a Toyota tranny pretty much, just slight differences.

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??!?
You say manual but are doing a valve body?

Confused... I think an auto is better for climbing, but of course the 01m vw blows (forgive the pun).

no i meant a manual shifting automatic, the AW4 tranny in the jeep is an automatic that is controlled by computers so.... you hotwire it and control the shifts yourself.

i really want a 5 speed but do not want to deal with converting it

flee said:

I looked at the build thread - what a great discussion - but I don't see mention of aftermarket rods.

Probably be good to put 'em in now if you go with the big turbo.

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stock rods can handle a lot, also this is a jeep. NOT fast so i'm not going to make much more than 200 crank HP, i would like to see 150PH at the wheels and 275TQ. not too bad considering all the loss i'll be getting through this drive train.

sardo_67 said:

stock rods can handle a lot, also this is a jeep. NOT fast so i'm not going to make much more than 200 crank HP, i would like to see 150PH at the wheels and 275TQ. not too bad considering all the loss i'll be getting through this drive train.

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Just sayin'...
IndigoBlueWagon experienced some bent rods with his 17/22 setup, so it happens.
If you are putting in new pistons it would be an easy upgrade.

What was he doing with his 17/22 to bend rods?

New rods are $400+. I am not dumping money into this and is going into a jeep for a daily driver, it will rarely see higher 3,000RPMs.

What are the numbers for a 17/22?
I know it's a hybrid but of what 2 turbos?

sardo_67 said:

What was he doing with his 17/22 to bend rods?
What are the numbers for a 17/22?
I know it's a hybrid but of what 2 turbos?

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IBW has posted various times about his mods and results so that can be readily searched.
There is a wealth of info on here and elsewhere but since I brought it up,
the 17/22 has a 17-series hot side and a 52mm impeller.
It can run at 28psi and flows somewhat less than the 1756.

Even in my daily driver if I was taking out the pistons I would upgrade the rods.
One less thing to worry about when you get the 'itch' for a little more oomph...

sardo_67 said:

What was he doing with his 17/22 to bend rods?

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Running 6,000rpms and auto-crossing for many years and several hundred thousand miles

Yeah, I dont remember if he mentioned what timing he was using up that high.

When I was retuning my ecu, I found the smoke level/iq where it is only visible at night.
After logging IQ and maf, I calculated pretty much flat hp from around 3k to 5200 or so, then dropping off. So I set my soft redline to 5600 rpm... just so I dont hit a hard limiter. The RPM meter only goes to approx 5500 rpm anyway.

In excel, the formula for IQ to hp I used:
Pick around 3k or so, when you figure you have max hp. Lets say IQ 78 in column G, number 7..aka G7. Lets say the IQ rpm is in position F7 and its 3020.
The next row, you start a "HP" relative column. Lets call it column J, position 8.
in there type, =(g8/78)*(f8/3020) [that is relative iq and relative rpm- iq and rpm directly related to HP. That will give you the relative power compared to the 3k row. Drag it down until wherever your log stopped.. 5k for example. You will see like 1.05 1.04 1.02 etc... at higher rpm it dropped for me because i started making too much smoke past 5500 and had to pull back fuel... The injection window was too big at that rpm to give the fueling needed so thats why I made my redline 5600. Plus the turbo I use can't keep boost that far (1749vb)

Very interesting. I'll hzve to talk to you about that after I get some mods on my car done.