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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old July 10th, 2009, 13:14   #1
mixednuts
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Angry Smog Checks on Diesels Starting in 2010 - What?

Hello everyone,

Did you know that diesel's are going to have to have smog checks starting in 2010 in California? According to this DMV article, it will be every other year and will not include a tailpipe test. Either way, it's a way to make money, in my opinion.

Have you all heard about this?

Report On Workshops

Held On October 2 and 7, 2008
To Discuss Diesel Vehicle Smog Check Inspections
Introduction


Assembly Bill 1488 (Mendoza, Chapter 739, Statutes of 2007) requires the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) to include in the Smog Check Program, by January 2010, diesel-fueled (diesel) vehicles meeting certain model year and vehicle weight range criteria. This legislation requires the BAR to work in consultation with the California Air Resources Board (ARB) to create the diesel vehicle test procedures, and requires the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) to work in consultation with the ARB to identify vehicles for inspection.
At a minimum, AB 1488 requires that 1998 and newer vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 8501 pounds be included in the Smog Check Program. In addition, the legislation requires the inclusion of diesel-powered vehicles less than 14,000 pounds GVWR once DMV determines the best method for identifying these vehicles, and ARB/BAR implement applicable test procedures. After working with the DMV and the ARB, the three agencies agreed that it would be most cost effective to include diesel vehicles up to 14,000 pounds GVWR so that program changes could be made all at once. This will result in significant cost savings to the State because DMV will only have to make changes to the system once, and emission benefits will be realized to the State sooner.
The bill indicates that the test will, at a minimum, consist of visual checks of the emission control systems (ECS), and an On Board Diagnostics (OBD) test. In addition, AB 1870 (Lieber, Chapter 761, Statutes of 2006) requires a visible smoke test.
Like gasoline-fueled (gasoline) vehicles, the newest four model-years will not be required to obtain a Smog Check inspection in order to register a vehicle when ownership changes. However, unlike gasoline vehicles, the newest six model-years of diesel vehicles will be required to obtain a biennial Smog Check inspection. It is estimated that approximately 540,000 diesel vehicles will be registered in California and subject to this program in calendar year 2010. DMV will begin sending notifications in January 2010 to registered owners of diesel vehicles with Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) ending in even numbers, and the VINs ending in odd numbers will be sent the following year beginning in January 2011.
inor changes to the BAR-97 Emissions Inspection System (EIS) software will be required in order to perform diesel Smog Check inspections by January 2010. The BAR will be contracting with the EIS manufacturers to make the necessary changes to the analyzer software at no cost to stations.
Workshop Presentation

BAR's presentation at the workshops provided details on AB 1488, DMV notification, inspection and test procedures and what will happen next. The information presented at the four workshops is outlined below:
Purpose of Workshops

  • Provide an overview of diesel-powered vehicles inclusion into the Smog Check Program.
  • Obtain input on new diesel inspection program and procedures.
Program Background

Why are diesel emissions a concern?
  • Diesel Particulate Matter (PM) is a Toxic Air Contaminant (TAC)
  • Increased health risks – respiratory problems, asthma, cancer, premature death
  • Diesel reactive organic gases (ROG) and oxides of nitrogen (NOx) contribute to the formation of ozone.
Overview of AB 1488

Estimated diesel vehicle population subject to the Smog Check Program for calendar year 2010 is 540,000 vehicles.
AB 1488 requires:
  • Model year 1998 and newer diesel-powered vehicles under 14,000 lbs GVWR to be included in the Smog Check Program
  • Inspections for change of vehicle ownership
  • Inspection of "Out of State" vehicles
  • Testing to begin in January 2010
  • Statewide implementation of diesel testing
  • ARB/BAR to develop inspection procedures
Implementation of AB 1488 – Registration

  • DMV registration renewal notices will indicate whether an inspection is required.
  • DMV will begin notification January 2010.
  • Diesel change-of-ownership will require inspections beginning January 2010.
  • Approximately half of the diesel vehicles subject to inspection will obtain a Smog Check each year.
  • Biennial inspections will be split the first two years.
  • Vehicles changing ownership will add to the biennial inspection volume.
Implementation of AB 1488 – Test Procedures

BAR has been working with the ARB to develop inspection procedures that will include a:
  • Visual test
  • OBD test
  • Visible Smoke test
Implementation of AB 1488 – Equipment Update

  • No new inspection equipment will be required.
  • BAR will be contracting with EIS manufacturers to update and install the needed software.
  • The BAR-97 analyzers will be able to perform the OBD test on all non-CAN vehicles.
Implementation of AB 1488 – Technician Training

Diesel-specific inspection training material will include:
  • EIS Operation
  • Visual Testing
  • OBD Testing
  • Visible Smoke Testing
The training will be made available to all technicians.
Additional Program Information – Consumer Assistance Program

  • Owners of diesel-powered vehicles may be eligible to participate in the Consumer Assistance Program.
  • Consumer incentive remains the same:
    • For repair assistance up to $500
    • For vehicle retirement $1,000
Next Steps

  • Publish workshop summary and schedule on BAR Web site
  • Comments will be accepted through October 31, 2008
  • Develop regulations
  • Forty-five day public comment period on proposed regulations
  • Regulatory hearing
  • January 2010 implementation
Contact Information

Larry Sherwood – Chief of BAR Engineering, 916.255.1321; larry_sherwood@dca.ca.gov
Greg Coburn – BAR Diesel Project Lead, 916.255.2979; greg _coburn@dca.ca.gov
Virginia Vu – Regulations Coordinator, 916.255.2135; virginia _Vu@dca.ca.gov
John Urkov – ARB Chief In-Use Vehicle Programs, 626.575.6719; jurkov@arb.ca.gov
Tom Valencia – Manager Field Inspection & Testing, 626.575.6741 ; tvalenci@arb.ca.gov
Summary of Questions and Comments at the Workshop

The workshops were attended by members of the inspection and repair industry, vehicle/engine manufacturers, car dealerships and owners of diesel repair specialty shops. Questions and comments discussed at the workshops are summarized below. Additional information (including FAQs) will be updated on the BAR’s Web site as it becomes available.
Diesel Inspection Procedures

Participants at the workshops asked a number of questions about the diesel inspection procedures that legislation requires the BAR and ARB to develop. The test will consist of three parts; a visual inspection of required emission control equipment, a check of the OBD system and a test for visible smoke.
All of these tests are currently performed on gasoline engines. However, there are some differences as indicated below:
  • The visual inspection for emission control equipment will be performed in the same way the gasoline test is performed except that some diesel vehicles are equipped with slightly different emission control equipment.
  • The OBD-II check on diesels will be conducted exactly the same way it is performed on gasoline vehicles. The BAR-97 cannot perform the OBDII check for any vehicles with the newer Controller Area Network (CAN) OBD communication protocol. Some diesel vehicles started using the CAN protocol as early as the 2003 model-year. BAR plans to have BAR-certified equipment that will be able to inspect CAN systems within a few years.
  • The BAR and the CARB are working on a new visible smoke test procedure for diesels. Once the studies regarding the smoke procedure are complete, and the draft procedures are written, they will be posted on BAR’s Web site.
Several station operators suggested that the BAR should require an opacity meter to measure smoke to avoid having a motorist challenge a station for failing a vehicle for excessive smoke. Currently, the State does not have any plans to require stations to purchase opacity meters.
No tailpipe emissions measurement test or dynamometer testing are planned for the implementation of the diesel inspection in January 2010.
One of the workshop participants asked if the BAR is considering having Smog Check technicians collect fuel samples since diesel vehicle owners occasionally use alternative fuels, like biodiesel. Although the BAR recognizes that alternative fuels can affect diesel emissions, no fuel samples will be required as part of the inspection.
Workshop participants asked how long the diesel inspection would take. The BAR indicated that although many factors affect the length of time it takes to do any type of inspection, the BAR expects most technicians to complete the diesel inspection in approximately 10 minutes.
Some participants raised concerns about exposure to diesel PM. The BAR always looks for ways to minimize the length of time a vehicle has to run during an inspection. The only time the engine will have to run during the diesel inspection is during the visible smoke test.
Subletting

Participating members of industry specializing in diesel repairs indicated that repairs on diesels will be more costly than they are on gasoline vehicles. A number of participants asked how the BAR expected failed vehicles to be repaired and if subletting would be allowed? Currently subletting of repairs is not allowed when a vehicle fails a Smog Check, except under certain conditions (i.e., parts removed from vehicle, or exhaust system repairs). The BAR is reviewing options for diesel repair and will provide further information during the regulatory process.
Test-Only Direction

The BAR will not be directing diesel vehicles to Test-Only stations when the program begins in January, 2010. If vehicles are directed later, it will have minimal impact on the industry because of the relatively small volume of diesel vehicles compared to gasoline vehicles.
Tampering, Engine Changes

The ARB advised workshop participants that diesel vehicles subject to this program have been certified to meet strict emission control requirements by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA) and the ARB.
Industry participants estimated that 50% of the diesel vehicles they currently service have been modified with aftermarket devices, oversized tires, etc. The ARB indicated that they cannot control tires, but Smog Check technicians will be required to fail vehicles with modified emission control equipment that have not been approved by the ARB. Approved devices will have a label with an ARB Executive Order number on it.
Workshop participants asked if the ARB gasoline replacement catalytic converter requirements would apply to diesels. The ARB agreed to check if it applies as is or if it needs to be modified to avoid the installation of cheap, inferior catalytic converters on diesel vehicles.
ome participants asked if the BAR could make a Web site available to help technicians identify which equipment is illegal. Information about which aftermarket equipment devices are approved by the ARB is already available from their Web site at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php. Technicians can search either by the manufacturer’s name or by the Executive Order number assigned to the device by the ARB if it is labeled on a vehicle.
The Consumer Assistance Program (CAP)

Questions were raised at the workshop about assistance for motorists who fail an inspection. The BAR indicated that the CAP offers two options for consumers whose vehicles fail their biennial Smog Check. Motorists may be eligible for either repair assistance or the vehicle retirement program. Repair Assistance allows qualified consumers to receive financial assistance toward emissions-related repairs up to $500 to help their vehicles pass a Smog Check inspection. Eligible consumers can also receive $1,000 to retire their high-polluting vehicle. The vehicle must pass a visual and operational inspection before it is retired.
Manufacturer Warranty Coverage

Participants asked if the emission warranties provided for diesel and gasoline powered vehicles are different. Stations should inform Motorists that they can check their owner’s manual to determine what coverage they were provided by the manufacturer. The BAR indicated that they will consider providing some general warranty information to the industry.
Station Licensing, Technician Licensing, Gold Shield Requirements

Members of the test and repair industry at the workshop asked if the BAR intends to establish new license requirements for diesel inspections or repairs. The BAR is reviewing options for technician licensing and will provide further information during the regulatory process.
Workshop participants asked if diesel repairs would help a station qualify to meet the criteria to become a Gold Shield station. The BAR has held several informational workshops regarding the criteria for Gold Shield stations over the past several months. Information about the workshops can be viewed on the BAR’s Web site at: http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...rkshopInf.html
Training

Participants attending each of the workshop sessions raised questions about the need for training materials aimed at diesel inspections and repairs. The BAR is reviewing options for diesel training and will provide further information during the regulatory process.
Implementation Schedule and Other Miscellaneous Questions

Some participants at the workshops were curious why 1998 was established as the minimum model-year vehicle subject to the program. The law, as written, authorizing the inclusion of diesel vehicles into the Smog Check Program, required it.
Participants asked if any diesel vehicles will be exempt from the program, like motor homes. The BAR and ARB stated that all diesel vehicles meeting the model-year and GVWR criteria will be subject to the program. This may include some small motor homes, but most are over the maximum 14,000 GVWR limit.
question was raised about what other states are inspecting light-duty diesel vehicles. The BAR indicated that Nevada, New York and Colorado are among the other states that have implemented diesel inspection programs.
BAR Actions Since Workshops

The following actions have occurred or are in progress since the workshops were held:
  • Testing at ARB and roadsides has resumed;
  • Drafting regulations; and
  • The BAR-97 software update for diesel testing is progressing.
Next Steps

Regulatory hearings are projected for spring 2009. Notification to interested parties will occur in early 2009.
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Old July 10th, 2009, 15:19   #2
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Why the mad face?

I think this is great; in reality it means all you idiots with egr deletes, ccv puke tanks, no cats etc will get what is coming to you

a FAIL

and a notice to put your car back into EPA compliance to stop grossly contaminating the air that everyone needs for life
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Old July 10th, 2009, 15:21   #3
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Kinda funny coming from a person who's username is bluesmoker...
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Old July 10th, 2009, 15:24   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyTDI Guy
Kinda funny coming from a person who's username is bluesmoker...

lol, yes but.......................

both my cars have all of the smog junk attached and still functional

the 04 only smokes on cold days (blue puff on the start)

lol
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Old July 10th, 2009, 15:28   #5
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Just had to throw that out there... no dis intended.

BTW, we already smog test passenger car diesels in my area. Any decent running TDI will pass with flying colors.
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Old July 10th, 2009, 15:31   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyTDI Guy
Just had to throw that out there... no dis intended.

BTW, we already smog test passenger car diesels in my area. Any decent running TDI will pass with flying colors.
agreed, here in bc we have an OB2 scan for codes and tampering (egr delete)

for the older models it is an opacity test

they also open the hood and check for evidence of tampering (ccv puke cans etc) and make sure the cat is on the exhaust
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Old July 10th, 2009, 17:19   #7
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Fuel Economy: Who cares? It's a DIESEL! Great fuel economy comes as a bonus!
Exclamation

For the visible tests for smoke, I'm curious how they'll test for smoke.

Questions:
1.) Will the tester just let a diesel vehicle idle for 5 minutes while checking for smoke? A TDI in good running condition can easily pass this test, even with EGR deletes, CCV puke cans, and performance mods.

2.) During the smoke test, will they do a "snap" acceleration from idle to WOT briefly to try to make it smoke? Snapping the go-pedal from idle to WOT is a good way to make smoke. A modded TDI that's totally clean at idle may fail a snap acceleration test due to the "burp" of smoke until the boost catches up to the (increased) fueling. Even a bone stock TDI (06 and earlier model years) can make a little smoke during a snap acceleration.

I live in a non-CARB state (NH) but I'm surrounded by CARB states (ME, MA, VT). I'm watching what happens here because even those of us in non-CARB states aren't totally immune to the effects of CARB due to them wanting to jump on the CARB bandwagon.
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General - https://sites.google.com/view/emissions-general/home

Last edited by n1das; July 10th, 2009 at 17:30.
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Old July 10th, 2009, 23:22   #8
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This is terrible news. Perhaps this is in fact a way for the state to earn more money, but even if it is legit, its certainly an unwelcome change that is going to cost diesel owners more money. I know for a fact that not having to smog a diesel was one of the upsides to owning a TDI. No more bragging rights.

Perhaps this is a response to the recent introduction of clean diesels? I am curious though (without reading too much of the article) on what the exemptions, if any, will be.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 06:52   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesmoker
Why the mad face?

I think this is great; in reality it means all you idiots with egr deletes, ccv puke tanks, no cats etc will get what is coming to you

a FAIL

and a notice to put your car back into EPA compliance to stop grossly contaminating the air that everyone needs for life
(scratching head) I keep telling myself this has to be subtle sarcasm, lol...because otherwise how could one dance on the head of a pin about being in compliance with EPA rules on pollution so that...sob...we can all have air to breathe...TWO tuning boxes MUST mean he is tuning for maximum fuel economy and minimum impact to air quality, and just COULDN'T be leaving any smoke behind him as he drives around Health Inspecting the Public...yeah, that HAS to be it. What a relief, for a moment I thought he was actually trying to take the high ground, lol.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 14:53   #10
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lol.....Just get a loader for your tune and set it really low so the turbo barely spools when they hit the throttle.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 15:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickstah
(scratching head) I keep telling myself this has to be subtle sarcasm, lol...because otherwise how could one dance on the head of a pin about being in compliance with EPA rules on pollution so that...sob...we can all have air to breathe...TWO tuning boxes MUST mean he is tuning for maximum fuel economy and minimum impact to air quality, and just COULDN'T be leaving any smoke behind him as he drives around Health Inspecting the Public...yeah, that HAS to be it. What a relief, for a moment I thought he was actually trying to take the high ground, lol.
actually my cars passed with flying colors here are the results (with the boxes attached) for my 98

actually passing an emission test with a proper chip or tuning module is quite easy, here are my resuts. note my opacity dropped from a pass (27%) (pass limit at 30%) to 9%.

the reasons why: cleaned my intake (yucky), ULSD and b20
my car also had a van aken box installed for the smog test

this is why I get miffed at these guys for egr/cat deletes, ccv puke cans etc., these illegal and polluting mods are not necessay for performance

2006-12-20 08:32:3893,0002008-12-15 9 %

2004-12-10 11:29:3756,0002006-12-06 27 %

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...10#post2492310


and one more thing pal I don't health inspect the public , I check food facilities and pools, sometimes I think I am a proctologist because i have to deal with uneducated, ill informed buttholes like you all day

got a problem with that? PM me and we can meet sometime
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Old July 11th, 2009, 16:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesmoker
this is why I get miffed at these guys for egr/cat deletes, ccv puke cans etc., these illegal and polluting mods are not necessay for performance
I don't agree with that. EGR is a crude way to try to reduce emission, but often it create more problem than anything else. Have you ever seen a clogged intake? It's all caused by the EGR valve and it create more pollution because a diesel engine will emit black smoke when it's starving for air. If only, the constructor would recognize the problem but they didn't mention anything related to intake cleaning in the maintenance book.
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Last edited by Nico3d3; July 11th, 2009 at 16:56.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 17:43   #13
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Originally Posted by Nico3d3
I don't agree with that. EGR is a crude way to try to reduce emission, but often it create more problem than anything else. Have you ever seen a clogged intake? It's all caused by the EGR valve and it create more pollution because a diesel engine will emit black smoke when it's starving for air. If only, the constructor would recognize the problem but they didn't mention anything related to intake cleaning in the maintenance book.
actually the opposite is true, the new egr valves are digitally (ecu) controlled
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

i agree a clogged intake is a problem, my opacity dropped significantly after i cleaned it our
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Old July 11th, 2009, 18:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesmoker
actually the opposite is true, the new egr valves are digitally (ecu) controlled
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
What are you trying to prove here? I did not even talk about how the egr valve is controlled. Anyway, they were controlled by the ECU even in the "old" ALH engine but it's still a rather crude system. The constructors are using it because it's a cheap way to meet emission requirement but it does more harm than good.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 19:13   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesmoker
actually my cars passed with flying colors here are the results (with the boxes attached) for my 98

actually passing an emission test with a proper chip or tuning module is quite easy, here are my resuts. note my opacity dropped from a pass (27%) (pass limit at 30%) to 9%.

the reasons why: cleaned my intake (yucky), ULSD and b20
my car also had a van aken box installed for the smog test

this is why I get miffed at these guys for egr/cat deletes, ccv puke cans etc., these illegal and polluting mods are not necessay for performance

2006-12-20 08:32:3893,0002008-12-15 9 %

2004-12-10 11:29:3756,0002006-12-06 27 %

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...10#post2492310


and one more thing pal I don't health inspect the public , I check food facilities and pools, sometimes I think I am a proctologist because i have to deal with uneducated, ill informed buttholes like you all day

got a problem with that? PM me and we can meet sometime
Lol, I'm not uneducated, I am ill-informed at times, and I do have a butthole, so you were in the ballpark .

I find it strange that you frequent this forum, yet you feel you have a right to call people idiots and unleash your anger at things others do, about which you apparently disagree fervently. You would be much better off not dealing with the likes of people you find here, because we are all probably lawbreakers and polluters to a similar degree. The fact you believe you are doing something wholesome for the environment amazes me...do you think you are good for the environment? You drive around, you consume things that need to be made by industry, you do everything everyone else does, but you have oem smog equipment working on your vehicle and that gives you the right to call people names and loom over them with your righteousness intact?

Bubba, we are ALL in the same garage with the door shut and the motor is running...no matter WHAT you do, the crap is accumulating because of all our actions, so don't try to divorce yourself from the reality that we are all the same when it comes to hurting the air we need for life.

I have 20 trees growing on my property and I do everything I can to make them live and thrive to soak up the CO2 I cause to be put in the air. I have a 30X40 garden that provides a lot of food for my fam and my immediate neighbors in an attempt to reduce the carbon cycle for store-bought food. I use a drilled well to feed my garden and property in order to reduce our hit on city water, and I invest and buy wind energy excusively that costs more in an effort to support further effort in that area. I also have an egr delete in my map, and the friggin egr weep hole pukes on my motor all the time, whaddya gonna do? Christine smokes when I punch her, I'm an idiot, I suppose.

Quit calling people names, because you can NEVER promote an idea in which you believe to others if you look down on them. That isn't rocket science to figure out. Good luck with spreading your message.

You'll probably pop a cork reading this, lol, but I'm not interested in PM. Apologies for mis-calling your career...your profile said Public Health Inspector, I thought.
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