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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +)

VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +) Discussions area for the Mk7 (2015+) Golf and Golf Wagon TDIs based on the MQB (Modularer Querbaukasten) platform.

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Old June 14th, 2019, 13:06   #16
adjat84th
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I run Mobil1 TDT 5w-40 in both my '01 and deleted '15 with excellent results! There was a comment on one of my UOAs from the UOA thread that the TDT sheared a little bit in the '15, but the wear in the interval was SUPER low and likely not an issue at all. TDT is much cheaper than the 507 flavor and frequently has mail-in rebates that make it even cheaper if you want that little bit of legwork!

Here is my first OCI post delete with TDT and majority highway miles.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 12:08   #17
740GLE
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
But I have done a lot of oil changes on diesel engines without egr or dpf systems,
I think the qualifier would be a modern CR diesel with or without emissions deleted. A lot of magic happens to reduce the amount of soot generated on a CR platform. That's why retrofitting DPF on older non-CR is virtually impossible, by nature they generate tons of soot that ends up in the oil.

I don't think you can compare changing the oil on an old Detroit diesel or a Mercedes OM617 without EGR or a DPF as being the same as changing it on a deleted CR.

Also a tea spoon of sootted oil will make 5-6L appear black as night, so just like you noticed clean oil on the powerstroke after flushing, it'll prob take quite a few regular oil changes to reduce the soot appearance of a filter.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 16:22   #18
turbobrick240
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Originally Posted by 740GLE View Post
I think the qualifier would be a modern CR diesel with or without emissions deleted. A lot of magic happens to reduce the amount of soot generated on a CR platform. That's why retrofitting DPF on older non-CR is virtually impossible, by nature they generate tons of soot that ends up in the oil.
I don't think you can compare changing the oil on an old Detroit diesel or a Mercedes OM617 without EGR or a DPF as being the same as changing it on a deleted CR.
Also a tea spoon of sootted oil will make 5-6L appear black as night, so just like you noticed clean oil on the powerstroke after flushing, it'll prob take quite a few regular oil changes to reduce the soot appearance of a filter.
Yeah, I did around 16 oil changes on my commonrail tdi. 8 of them deleted. The filter and oil was always black. We are a weird, obsessive lot of car owners. I wouldn't be shocked if some guy was sneaking in unnecessary intermediate oil changes. I don't buy into the "one teaspoon of used oil completely blackens 5 liters" mumbo jumbo. It takes a lot more than that - as evidenced by my 7.3, which holds a quart or two in the hpop reservoir.

Commonrail injection is a major advancement, but it does not allow for miraculous soot free diesel combustion. If that were the case, dpf tech. would not be required.

Last edited by turbobrick240; June 17th, 2019 at 16:41.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 04:02   #19
oilhammer
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Methinks you do not understand how/why DPFs are there.

Here is a little lesson: if a diesel was allowed to run as lean as it can, and with modern high pressure multi-staged injection they can atomize the fuel very well and run very lean, the oil would stay very clean. But because the EPA etc. have such a hard on for NOx, diesels are forced to run much richer than they otherwise have to. EGR plays a big role in this. If there were no NOx worries, there would be no EGR. If there were no EGR, and the engine management was allowed to make the engine trend towards fuel economy and run super lean, you'd also have no need for a DPF. Or at least, much less of a need. Plus, the very nature of a DPF requires the engine run super DUPER rich for a regeneration. Further adding soot to the combustion process.

We see black oil in older diesels simply because they did not have the high injection pressures and good combustion events, even though these engines had little to no emission compliance devices on them. No EGR, no exhaust aftertreatment of any kind.

But we see black oil in newer diesels because they DO have these emissions compliance devices, and, usually, when these devices are "deleted" in the physical sense, the software side gets modded too, and hardly anyone changes the software to keep the output level the same. So that causes an overfueling potential, which, you guessed it, blackens the oil quicker.

But, if you have a modern engine, leave the software to make the engine run for fuel economy and NOT for power, delete the EGR/DPF, you will find that not only does the engine not produce a lot of soot, what it does produce is quickly and easily sent right out the tail pipe and does not get pushed into the oil as quickly.

The NOx is of course through the roof. But that won't do squat to the oil. You cannot "see" NOx coming out the tailpipe. NOx leaves no black inside the engine or exhaust. It is just nitrogen and oxygen atoms fused together after high heat. The air around you is full of nitrogen and oxygen.

The oil filters I pictured are from a car that has such modest tuning... meaning, stock power level... maybe even a bit less, but likely within 5hp. It spends most of its time cruising down the highway at 70 MPH and returns mid 50s MPG reliably tank after tank.

My one ALH has a modest MAF delete tune, no EGR, with a plugged in fixed value of 450 for the MAF. The fueling is based largely off of that. So, it is ALWAYS underfueling compared to a stock ALH under most conditions. The 11mm pump makes it a bit peppier at the bottom end, but it runs of out steam pretty quickly after 3500 RPM or so. Still, it is peppy enough for me, feels a lot like a stock BEW up to that 3500 RPM threshold, gets 50+ reliably, just got 53 on a tank on a trip to Des Moines and back on Saturday, and I run 20k mile service intervals with it. The oil is black when I change it, but for the first ~5k miles it is clean enough you can see through it to the crosshatches on the dipstick. I have verified the soot load of the oil (a diesel's main contributor to the need for oil changes) via two consecutive UOA. The soot level after 10k miles was '0.1'. I still have the sheet right here.

Incidentally, we are also seeing a similar trend with gasoline fueled cars, in which "newer" may mean "cleaner", but it hardly translates to "better" in terms of the engine mechanical health and longevity, largely based on how it hammers the oil. All these newer DI/turbo DI gas engines have oil that comes out black and runny and fuel diluted, like a 1960s lawn mower. And over time, the problem manifests itself as major mechanical failures. So that fleet that bought a whole squadron of C1500 5.3L trucks in 2005 and ran them 1/4 million hard miles with only routine PM? Yeah, they are already finding out that the DI version in the 2015s they got to replace them are blowing up before 100k. GM switching from a 5w30 to a 0w20 certainly didn't help.
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Last edited by oilhammer; June 18th, 2019 at 04:18.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 07:23   #20
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Incidentally, we are also seeing a similar trend with gasoline fueled cars, in which "newer" may mean "cleaner", but it hardly translates to "better" in terms of the engine mechanical health and longevity, largely based on how it hammers the oil. All these newer DI/turbo DI gas engines have oil that comes out black and runny and fuel diluted, like a 1960s lawn mower. And over time, the problem manifests itself as major mechanical failures. So that fleet that bought a whole squadron of C1500 5.3L trucks in 2005 and ran them 1/4 million hard miles with only routine PM? Yeah, they are already finding out that the DI version in the 2015s they got to replace them are blowing up before 100k. GM switching from a 5w30 to a 0w20 certainly didn't help.
There's a reason VW is installing PF on their Gassers now (GPF), you solve one problem but usually create a new one.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ter-technology
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Old June 18th, 2019, 07:30   #21
turbobrick240
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I understand how and why dpf's function. They would be required to control particulate emissions even if NOx was considered a benign gas that didn't need to be minimized. It's really the egr system that contributes more to the sooting up of diesel oil. Deleting both of those systems will put less soot into the oil, no doubt. I'd just have to see a 10k mile diesel oil change interval that didn't blacken the filter with my own eyes.

I guess I'm also immediately suspicious of anyone who pays through the nose for a delete and tune and doesn't want any extra power calibrated into that tune.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 08:04   #22
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Well believe it or not, most TDI buyers want fuel efficiency and longevity, and are satisfied with the stock output of the engine... even the 90hp ones.

My dad wanted a "tune" for his Ecoboost F150 just to disable, permanently, the stupid start-stop nonsense.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 08:12   #23
740GLE
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I guess I'm also immediately suspicious of anyone who pays through the nose for a delete and tune and doesn't want any extra power calibrated into that tune.
Ahh but deleting is a heck of a lot cheaper than a replacement DPF.
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