Kill DRL, keep Parking Lights?

I know that covering the TFL pin on the headlight switch will turn off the DRL's, but will it leave the parking lights on? I'd like to have parking lights like any NORMAL car, but don't have the money for a new switch just yet.

Thanks

You mean when you leave the headlights turned on and shut down the engine?

Sorry, poor wording. Let me try again...

When the DRL's would normally turn on, would the parking lights still turn on, if the TFL pin is covered? So, say you release the parking brake, and the DRL's turn on. If you covered the TFL pin at this time, would the parking lights stay on, or would they go out too?

[ December 12, 2002, 10:26: Message edited by: snoopis ]

Parking lights should function normally. TFL only powers the low beam circuit.

You need a Euroswitch about 57 bucks over on Vortex.

Off/Park/On
Pull once for fogs (only on park and above)
Pull twice for rear fogs (same)

Sam '02 Wagon

Suck it up and buy a Euro switch. I did and I'm pleased as punch with it. Your city lights go on with the parking lights. Plus you can wire up the rear fog light. Clean, OEM looks all around.

You can get one here, $52 shipped. Great fast shipping: http://www.bugmod.com/euroswitch1.htm
Here's some bad pics of mine:

Can someone PLEASE explain "parking lights"??

I believe the "parking lights" are considered the yellow colored ones located in the headlights that are on when the headlights are on and blink when the turn signal is activated. If you remove/tape over/bend the TFL pin, you will not be able to operate just the parking lights when the car is on and the e-brake has been disengaged. The only way you can do that is to buy an Euro-switch as mentioned above and if you are so lucky as to have "city lights" which are another little bulb that is in there(as pictured above), those will illuminate with just the parking lights after the TFL Pin has been removed/bent/taped over and you buy an Euro-switch

If you don't have the $s for a Euroswitch, then it's best to just leave it alone.

The DRLs are a nice safety feature and helps your car standout from the sea of Hondas and Toyotas. Why make your car look like that?

Clearance lights are the term used in the DOT manuel. You no let you see haw big the boat suv next to yo ureally is.

You're right, I'll buy the switch.

But I do have to ask, why did you choose "KDF WGN" for a Golf?

[ December 13, 2002, 07:12: Message edited by: snoopis ]

Originally posted by snoopis:
You're right, I'll buy the switch.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you still want to add the European parking lights you will have to add three wires. One from the ignition switch to the turn signel switch and two from the turn signel switch to the headlight switch. This will give you the European selective parking lights with the engine powered off.

Do North American Golf TDIs have front and rear fog lights standard?

If not what else do you need to change in order toi make full use of the Euro Switch mentioned above?

Originally posted by mainframe:
Do North American Golf TDIs have front and rear fog lights standard?

If not what else do you need to change in order to make full use of the Euro Switch mentioned above?

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, no VW exported to NA has rear fog(s).

You would simply need to run a wire from the dash to the rear tail light panel and pop a bulb in. That's all I did for our Jetta. Our Passat was pre-wired from the factory.

Hi Snoopis:

Before you disable your DRL's, I would like to give you some additional information to consider. The final decision, of course, is yours.

Although many of us as owners may not like the DRL's, we are not the only ones that are affected by them. In countries where DRL's have been standard for many years (Scandinavia, Canada), a whole generation of elementary school children have grown up more or less expecting that all cars will have two lights on the front of them at all times. For better or worse (we can't influence this), these kids look for a set of headlights before they cross the road, rather than looking for an automobile itself. Disabling DRL's puts small kids at greater risk (due to their expectation of seeing DRL's), no matter how alert and cautious the driver of the car is.

I don't have any kids myself, so this is not a selfish comment aimed at protecting my kids. Just a thought others may want to consider before disconnecting the DRL's.

FWIW, in Switzerland, the automobile association (not the government) is running an advertising campaign to encourage drivers to turn their headlights on all the time. DRL's are not supplied as standard (or even optional) equipment in Switzerland, however, compliance with the new idea is running over 90% now, and all dealers and aftermarket stores have kits available for purchase that retrofit DRL's onto existing cars.

So, funny enough, what some of us are doing in North America (disabling DRL's) is exactly the opposite of what enthusiasts in Europe are doing - they're installing DRL's.

Regards, Michael

Originally posted by snoopis:
You're right, I'll buy the switch.

But I do have to ask, why did you choose "KDF WGN" for a Golf?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">$50 well spent.

KDF WGN -- Why not? It's a VW; the KdF was the original VW.

I'm of the opinion that any decrease in traffic fatalities from having a lights on/ DRL law is because of one factor only:

People are dumb (or worse, stubborn) enough to leave their lights off well after the sun has gone down, in rain (in heavy rain I turn on my rear fog light), or snow, or in the morning when it's overcast and the sky is dark and grey. This inevitably causes fatalities.

In other words, they leave their lights off when people like me know enough to turn them on.

DRLs are the idiot light on the outside of the car.

[btw, I disabled mine because I use the e-brake here in PA in traffic and on hills, etc. and don't like the idea of not being able to stop flashing other motorists with my headlights when engaging and unengaging the handbrake]

[ December 14, 2002, 00:53: Message edited by: Pseudobrit ]

Strength By Joy - Kraft Durch Freude

http://www.kdf-wagen.de/misc/reprints/rep_frame.html?e?motor_38_06

Ya gotta love history !!

I love the idea of DRLs, especially on flat, straight, rural roads, where the mirage effect can mask an oncoming vehicle, and in High Contrast areas (cities in morning/evening sunlight), where vehicles can be lost in shadows.

However, as PseudoSteve says, I hate how they turn off when you yank up on the e-brake.

I'm smart enough to know when my lights are warranted, and when they're not. So, I disabled mine.

Most complaints about DRLs is due to the Goverment "Saving us from ourselves". WHich is wrong. Darwinism is great, and I'm a proponent of it. Dumb people killing themselves... preferably before they breed. But DRLs help smart people to not get killed by dumb people (who don't know when to turn on their lights), so it's different.

Yeah, I guess you could say let them be standard equipment to help the stupid people stop killing the smarter people, but I would not want to see it made illegal to disable them if you wanted.

I would think most people who would disable them are the type who know when they should have them on and are defensive driving types.

I've never, in my 5 years and 150,000+ miles of driving, been in an accident with any vehicle without DRLs, so as long as that average stays in place, I'll keep them off, thanks.

[ December 14, 2002, 14:30: Message edited by: Pseudobrit ]

Pseudobrit:

You overlook one important point: Unless the type of accident you refer to involves you driving into a tree or rock or other static object, you normally have two vehicles (or one vehicle and one pedestrian) involved in an automobile accident.

I don't doubt your skill or ability, and I am sure that if every driver on the road was as alert and competent as you, you would not have to worry about the benefit of having DRL's. But, the other person (the other car that hits you, or the child that runs out in front of you) might not be as alert and observant as you. It's that other person who benefits from you having DRL's functioning on your car, not necessarily you.

That other person just might be a 6 year old.

Originally posted by Michael Moore:
Hi Snoopis:

Although many of us as owners may not like the DRL's, we are not the only ones that are affected by them. In countries where DRL's have been standard for many years (Scandinavia, Canada), a whole generation of elementary school children have grown up more or less expecting that all cars will have two lights on the front of them at all times. For better or worse (we can't influence this), these kids look for a set of headlights before they cross the road, rather than looking for an automobile itself. Disabling DRL's puts small kids at greater risk (due to their expectation of seeing DRL's), no matter how alert and cautious the driver of the car is.

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So the facts are showing once the DRL's are in regular use and everyone is used to them, they become a problem, worse than no DRL laws.
I read recently that Canada has had an increase in traffic accidents and is a serious concern to the government.

Frank:

Can you cite the source of your statement? I have not "heard" this.

I did, however, check the archives of Statistics Canada, and found the following report: Trends in Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics 1988 - 1997, which was published in February 2001.

Among the major conclusions of this report you will find the comment "The number of fatal collisions decreased from 3,610 in 1988 to 2,647 in 1997, a reduction of 26.7%. Injury collisions declined by 21.0% during the same period, from 190,094 in 1988 to 150,118 in 1997."

The graph below shows accident history over the same time period. It is interesting to note that Daytime Running Lights (DRL's) were introduced in Canada beginning with 1991 model year cars. Can you see any interesting change in the trend shown in the graph beginning around 1991?

Motor Vehicle Accidents in Canada, sorted by road type (urban or rural)

The problem with those statistics is that they don't tell us what time of day or visibility conditions these accidents happened in. Or for that matter whether there was a mild winter in '91.

Keep in mind too that other VERY important passive and active safety measures began appearing in cars around the same time: ABS and airbags, for instance.

Also, if children grow up looking for a pair headlights instead of cars, aren't they that much more likely to be killed by a classic car or a motorcycle?

What about motorcyclists? Now that people are looking for a pair of lights, one of them blazing away at noon doesn't stand out so much anymore.

Bicyclists and pedestrians are already at high risk out at night because of people looking for a set of headlights and nothing else. Let's not extend these risks into the broad daylight. It may save accidents in the short run, but in the long run it's modifying the behaviour of a generation.

But, in this "save the children," sue everything "it's not my fault" climate we live in, where people are willing to give up all their freedom for a feeling of safety, good sense and prudence are lost.

Originally posted by Michael Moore:
Frank:

Can you cite the source of your statement? I have not "heard" this.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes I can. PBR news november 2002!!!
thats why your data is useless now.

Nice post Pseudobrit!!!

[ December 15, 2002, 13:25: Message edited by: Frank M ]

DRLs have nothing to do with psycologically "standing out".

They have everything to do with increased contrast, which is physical.

If I'm at an intersection, and see one set of lights... I know to not pull out. I don't understand the basis behind the claims that seeing 2, or 3 sets of lights is going to make me think there's nothing there, and thus, pull out.

1 set of lights => Something there.
2 sets of lights => Nothing there?

But that increased contrast must be filtered through the brain and interpreted in a matter of milliseconds. Thus it does become a matter of psychologically "standing out."

Seeing a set or more of DRLs behind a motorcycle's one light or in front of, beside or behind a bicyclist will draw attention to the vehicle's lights. We end up with the effect being this:

2 lights about 3 feet apart= 1 Vehicle

DRLs are a distraction. People are distracted by the "safety" of being able to see a car with its DRLs on and stop looking for other objects on the road. The DRLs become a crutch. People are less likely to notice objects with no lights, especially when confronted with such objects at the same moment as they are confronted with objects with lights.

Throw a motorcylce into the mix about 30 yards in front of a DRL equipped vehicle. At an angle, this can make the bike/car light combination tell the brain that there is a vehicle further away or closer than it actually is. This corrupted depth perception is another problem.

I'll make up some illustrations sometime this week to explain further.

[ December 15, 2002, 14:40: Message edited by: Pseudobrit ]

Originally posted by Pseudobrit:
But that increased contrast must be filtered through the brain and interpreted in a matter of milliseconds. Thus it does become a matter of psychologically "standing out."
.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">this is why when i drive in Canada with no lights on (during the day) I stand out to any driver that is paying attention.

Unfortunately to many Canadian drivers are now just looking for lights rather than vehicles.

This makes for a dangerous situation, hence increased accidents because drivers are now not paying the proper attention.

I am with Michael on this. I like DRLs and i drive for a living. When it is dusk and or dark on one side (Right) of the Bus i drive a dark colored car is hard to see even with the best mirrors. But the lights come through. Yes i know i would be at fault if i came over to the right and hit you But it is your hassel too because of injury or car repairs. I have been driving for 34 years and have come close once or twice. The right side is always the trouble side. and only at dusk or rainly days. I have a prefect record and plan on keeping it that way. So i like DRLs. To many cars like to stay along side of big rigs and thats just not a safe way to drive. I am sure no one on freds drives like that.

Michael-
I agree, but there are some situations where I don't want to blind people, so I want to be able to turn them off. Example, when entering a military base, turning off your headlight so as not to blind the guy who is checking your I.D. or blind the car sitting in front of you.

But as for driving, I just turn the switch. Even before I got a car with DRL's I always drove with my headlights on. Even now, I still turn on the switch even though I don't have to. Just a habit.