MK7 Golf Build

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Lazy foot and eager arm = bad combo.

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I truly doubt these guys are floating gears. It makes sense to me that excessive vibrations/harmonics and steel synchro rings might not be a great combo.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
As long as the clutch is engaged, firing pulses are being transmitted through the input shaft onto the gears. The synchros rest into the gear face via three ears. Then on the other side of the synchro set, three more ears rest into the selector hubs. The rotation is perfectly fine...but it is not a perfect rotation, it jitters back and forth in harmony with the firing pulses. It's that rotational back and forth that causes the ears to bounce back and forth constantly in the hub, so no pressure needs to be on the fork for the beating to occur. It's this beating that causes the steel ears to break off whereas the brass hold up just fine. Once you lose all three ears, it's a done deal.

Here's a video to show the beating, and the origin of the noise you hear with SMF setups.
Edit: need to figure out video on the new forum..
02Q Synchro slap
 
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adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Lazy foot and eager arm = bad combo.

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My '01 has a SMF for nearly 200k miles and synchros are just fine. I generally take it pretty easy when driving, so it's not an eager arm to blame here. I'm also not the only one that's been able to prove the 02Q synchro problem. I tried a Fluidampr as a precaution, but it's obvious that's not enough to save them.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
In my bigger rigs I always grabbed 1st before coming to a stop.

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adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I mentioned that I would post some info on the differences between 02M and 02Q synchro sets. So, here are a set of each (02M on the left and 02Q on the right) alongside the 02Q 3rd gear from my gearbox. The middle ring of each set is designed to rest in the gear a certain way which is why these aren't interchangeable. I think it's interesting to see that the 02M uses typical ridges along the inner/outer faces of the brass rings to "grab" the middle ring to slow the gear down whereas the 02Q uses a friction material lined on the middle ring to do the same thing.

 
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740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
DSG swap will end your problems and your car will be much faster :)
There is a 365hp 675nm 2.0 PD 4motion running under 12 seconds /402m with DQ250 and expensive remap only.
Im sure it will hold your 250hp without problems.

I think there's a difference between daily driver and "peak numbers drag queen" it's been proven the US '15 TDI with DSG once tuned has issues with the stock DMF and harmonics. Show us a DMF that can handle +300-350ftlb at 1800-2100 RPM a tuned '15 CR is putting down, its kinda apples and oranges comparing a PD to a CR, sounds like Darkside has something that may prove its worth.

Sounds like adjat84th was able to solve the DMF shudder with fluidamr but then needed a clutch to hold the higher torque of his upgraded turbo so went SMF and thus ran into snycro issues.
 
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Bigtoy302

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Location
Eugene, OR
TDI
CJAA swapped Tacoma
The KNS code 02q has all brass syncros. From a 09 TDI. I have one and opened it up found all brass!.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
The early 02Qs still had 02M output shafts with the good stuff, haha
Consider yourself very lucky!

Dyno scheduled for 2/27 :)
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
The shafts with the gears on them are the output shafts. Sounds like an awesome build [emoji106]

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Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
If the dsg is the same as in europe the tune needs to be adjusted.
I know a few cars with stock dsg running 110mg iq 2.2-2.4 bar boost and never had issues.
Its smart to limit torque a little bit in the low rpm and allow it to rise after 3000. *** would you make 600nm as early as possible? just to destroy things?
On my page i posted a few 2.0 CR running stock dsg with 18bar clamping pressure and both are going strong without issues.

I discovered myself, dsg tune is either TOP ..or sh:t.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
That sure does sound like a fantastic TT swap/build. Interesting info about the KNS code 02Q. They may not have the uber tall 6th gear, but that might be another plus in a sports car.
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Thought I'd share a bit of info that I've found having owned 2 MK7 Golfs (GTI before and now a R)...

Sachs offers a 4 puck racing clutch that can hold a absurd amount of torque (568 ft-lbs). And here's the cool part: You can still use the OEM style dual mass flywheel. Friend of mine has this setup in his hybrid turbo GTI and it's holding the power just fine. Link the this clutch is below. I don't know if it's compatible with the TDI or not.

Clutch
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vw-clutch-kit-genuine-vw-kit
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
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Bigtoy302

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Location
Eugene, OR
TDI
CJAA swapped Tacoma
That sure does sound like a fantastic TT swap/build. Interesting info about the KNS code 02Q. They may not have the uber tall 6th gear, but that might be another plus in a sports car.
My TT is lifted and has 215/65/16 Geolanders on it so the shorter 6th will be perfect.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Update to my last post... the clutch that I listed doesn't look like it would fit.

Same clutch but for the TDI should fit:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/clutch-disc-sachs-performance-881864999505

You'd also need the corresponding pressure plate:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/pressure-plate-sachs-performance-883082001422

so it looks like the friction disk is the same between the kits, but from what I could find the pressure plate is different.
The Sachs SRE from Darkside is what I have. They offer a sintered disc (I think it's 4 puck) that holds insane torque as well, but I wonder how harsh it is in daily driving. That's why I went organic.

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jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
I've used a 4 Puck, not in a tdi, and it wasn't too unpleasant.

It's no city setup, even for those that are quite handy with a clutch..in my opinion.


But I'm a guy that really doesn't like high rpm when taking off. Combining that with low rpm engagement with a Puck setup id imagine it's more difficult.

My old 09 I had a terrible terrible tendency to gag the rpms so low the ecm would kill fuel once below 500rpm.

I had to break that habit at least for that car. 750-1k rpm I was easily scuffing rubber from stand stills.




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ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
The Sachs SRE from Darkside is what I have. They offer a sintered disc (I think it's 4 puck) that holds insane torque as well, but I wonder how harsh it is in daily driving. That's why I went organic.

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Just checked and it looks to be a similar if not the same disk.

Knowing that Darkside offers the kits and likely know for sure what works and doesn't. I would just go with them for a clutch.

Also, the 4 puck initially (before break in) is a bit harsh. But after break in it's pretty decent and certainly livable on a daily basis.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Not as impressive as I had hoped! 190whp/330tq, which is plenty fun still. These motors are really limited in airflow, which is another project in itself that I'll get into once life settles down. Just buying a new house and repairs at a rental property are eating into my time and resources...plus I travel every week for work up in New England currently.

That said, I have a 2260vklr on the way and after that some cylinder head work etc. I'll plan to get it on the Dyno after the turbo and again after the engine work. Thinking 230whp/370tq with the turbo, and the engine work I think will see pretty impressive gains if it all works out as planned.


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Cuzoe

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
MK7 Golf S
Sounds like fun numbers. My only real option (being in Cali) is CR190, which I could buy from Kerma, keeping my emissions equipment. I have their tune on my otherwise stock car so I've already got the loader and I would see if we can negotiate something on switching to the proper tune.

The other option is a hybrid from xman but I don't know but worth it being that I'm keeping my emissions equipment. I don't know if Kerma would support or if I would have to seek out another tuner, meaning purchasing another loader I assume.

I watched a couple videos on darkside developments' YouTube channel about a GTD, get some clarity on the air flow issues with this motor. I moved about 10 months ago and just got back from my honeymoon last week so have not been putting any money into the car. Also got the wife a Tesla so my vehicle play money now goes to her car note.

Looking forward to seeing what comes of the head work though. That being said, what's your plan for the GTD1752vrk?

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adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Congrats!
The hybrid CR190 may work just fine with DPF in place, definitely ask them.
I'll post my 1752vrk kit up for sale once I get the 2260 going.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Bit of an update, got the 2260vklr installed and running.
I ended up switching downpipes back to a Rawtek version, and was graciously offered a GTB to V-band adapter by Owain at Malone to purchase. This worked out great along with an intake silicone from them as well. Very pleased with everything else on the install.
 
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adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Well, after 100 miles I had the same limp mode scenario pop up. Happened today on the way to see family for the holiday. Coming to an idle or restart seems to get it going fine again but no codes set oddly. Has happened in 4th and 5th gear each around 2k-2200rpm and ~12psi on the boost gauge just lightly accelerating.

On a positive note, I was able to test some full boost runs last night though after getting it back together and this thing moves great above 3k rpm. Current tune is still the old 1752vrk, 31psi tune that was limited a bit down low to keep boost spikes in check and DMF happy.
 
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Markus L

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Location
Finland
TDI
Caddy (14D) 1.9TDI 2-stage 400+bhp, Passat 3BG 4motion AVF
You're having limp mode. Codes might have been deleted from software while tuning.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Yep, that's my thinking now as well..relieved.
Did some logging to send to Malone and was able to easily repeat my no-boost situation. Actual boost too far from requested and for too long and it shuts down...restart and all is well. Thing is a rocket though above 3k rpm :)
 
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